Affirmative Action

toguy5252

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Jun 22, 2009
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When someone applies for a job at our company we look at a number of factors and the more strenuous review of these factors the higher up the job grade.

1) At the top of the list is their academic record.
2) A psyche test.
3) Police reference check
4) Credit report
Public Service Commission approval of psychological tests - Canada.ca
Police Reference Check – City of Toronto
No idea where you work but I find it hard to believe that an interview is not involved particularly as you go up in hierarchy.
 

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
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Pilot isn't a profession, it's a job and pilots aren't professionals. Got it. Same with air traffic controllers, police, firefighters, paramedics. I'm pretty sure there's a big list of "jobs" that pretty much everyone would consider a career and that pretty much everyone would consider professional that your definition doesn't count.

You might want to rethink it.
"Professional" as "governed by a standards body" (one which can remove your standing) is a definition that is used fairly often. (See the fight over whether or not journalists should become a profession.) That's a version of "professional" that isn't about the standard to which you do your job, of course. It's a contested definition.

The idea that professions never unionize is... weird.
 
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toguy5252

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If they were just as good, you wouldn't need the quota. Under a pure merit system, for example entry based solely on standardized test scores, they would have an equal chance of getting in, if their test scores were just as good as the white males.
Unless you are a legacy or you can afford to go to a very expensive feeder school or daddy endowed a building or your cousin knows the admissions officer or any number of exceptions which take spots away from people who have to apply on merit. SAT's GMAT's and the other srttanadardized testing advantage peole who went to better scools. There are any number of studies that show for example inner city schools which tend to be more black have been sufferring more that suburban schools so thos students atr less equipped to succeed on those tests.

Affirmative action is only an issue whn it involves black students. Legaccies etc are just affirmative action for rich whites. I don't see anyone objecting to that. Similar to there being no outcry from the right when it comes to welfare for the rich. Only the poor.
 
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tiberius6675

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If they were just as good, you wouldn't need the quota. Under a pure merit system, for example entry based solely on standardized test scores, they would have an equal chance of getting in, if their test scores were just as good as the white males.
Who told you people who get in on a quota, do not have scores or other qualifications/traits that are equal to or better than white males? What kind of racist bullshit is this? You also understand that admissions to schools are not solely based on scores right? It is scores + past academics + your unique profile that adds to the diversity of experiences of the student body, that determines your admissability. It is the combined package, not just a number on a test.
 
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Darts

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I wish when I got a loan from a bank to start my business many years ago that a few years later they said "Fuck it, just keep it, you don't have to pay us back. We will get it from the Tax payers"
The SCOTUS judgment is intelligent and rational.
 

Darts

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Our company hold at least two in person interviews before we hire or de-hire anyone.
 

JohnLarue

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no need to start with a command
its not like I was not paying attention

this thread was about the affirmative action ruling which I agreed with, and it certainly seems like you do too.

i firmly believe in equality of opportunity
however equality of outcomes is unachievable & it discriminates

is the goal not to end discrimination ?

I would prefer that all inequities be eliminated for college admissions, you don’t.
by all means, remove barriers to opportunity

then let merit be the determining factor
quotas are discriminatory

is the goal not to end discrimination ?

It seems that you would like people with a lot of money to have preferential treatment.
you are having a difficult time clueing into the fact Alumni donations send a lot of kids to university / collage in the USA
kids who could not attend without a scholarship
the good outweighs the perceived bad
think of legacy admissions as a tax on the donations
if its a tax, i am sure you will be ok with it

or do you prefer several talented students be denied an education , so you can claim social justice over legacy admissions


It really doesn’t help your argument to call me names and Loonie left(which I’m not) you’d be surprised how I vote.

odd how being insulted encourages me to respond with a more critical view
I understand that money trumps grades with you.
i hope you learned something
 
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canada-man

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Jun 16, 2007
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Toronto, Ontario
canadianmale.wordpress.com
White women benefited more from Affirmative Action than all minorities combined.

When California outlawed Affirmative Action in 1996, white Americans were more underrepresented in college by race than Black Americans.
This again proves whites benefited more than Blk Americans.

 

Nathan 88

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Feb 1, 2017
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no need to start with a command
its not like I was not paying attention




i firmly believe in equality of opportunity
however equality of outcomes is unachievable & it discriminates

is the goal not to end discrimination ?


by all means, remove barriers to opportunity

then let merit be the determining factor
quotas are discriminatory

is the goal not to end discrimination ?



you are having a difficult time clueing into the fact Alumni donations send a lot of kids to university / collage in the USA
kids who could not attend without a scholarship
the good outweighs the perceived bad
think of legacy admissions as a tax on the donations
if its a tax, i am sure you will be ok with it

or do you prefer several talented students be denied an education , so you can claim social justice over legacy admissions





odd how being insulted encourages me to respond with a more critical view


i hope you learned something
Obviously, you haven’t learned anything.
 
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Nathan 88

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Feb 1, 2017
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no need to start with a command
its not like I was not paying attention




i firmly believe in equality of opportunity
however equality of outcomes is unachievable & it discriminates

is the goal not to end discrimination ?


by all means, remove barriers to opportunity

then let merit be the determining factor
quotas are discriminatory

is the goal not to end discrimination ?



you are having a difficult time clueing into the fact Alumni donations send a lot of kids to university / collage in the USA
kids who could not attend without a scholarship
the good outweighs the perceived bad
think of legacy admissions as a tax on the donations
if its a tax, i am sure you will be ok with it

or do you prefer several talented students be denied an education , so you can claim social justice over legacy admissions





odd how being insulted encourages me to respond with a more critical view


i hope you learned something
The only thing I learned from you is that you like a minority of people [the very wealthy] to be able to buy their way into university rather than working hard for it.
I want fairness for all, you don’t.
 

JohnLarue

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Jan 19, 2005
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The only thing I learned from you is that you like a minority of people [the very wealthy] to be able to buy their way into university rather than working hard for it.
well since you got that wrong (the important point you ignore is Alumni fund many students who otherwise could not attend college)
& since you claim it is the only thing you learned >>>> the only logical conclusion is you are incapable of learning.

Strict adherence to your ideology is preventing you from seeing the value in compromise

I want fairness for all, you don’t.
is it fair to have the application rejected for white student with A, A- marks in favor of an affirmative action student with C+, B- marks ?
you do not want fairness you want to appear politically correct

please explain why you accept discrimination only if it is discrimination against white people ?
please explain why your goal is not elimination of ALL discrimination

I want fairness for all, you don’t.
All include all applicants
 

tiberius6675

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Jun 8, 2023
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is it fair to have the application rejected for white student with A, A- marks in favor of an affirmative action student with C+, B- marks ?
1. Who told you that affirmative action students have C+ or B-? Stating that they do, is first and foremost racist. Affirmative action students also score A or A-.

2. To answer your question. Yes, it is fair. It is also fair, to pass over a minority with an A or A- and instead opt to enroll a white student with a C+. It is fair to pass on people with higher scores because it is your overall profile that matters. People with stellar extracurriculars, or people who have a unique profile, or people who are from a little known country, or people who have low scores but are entrepreneurial or have shown entrepreneurial qualities, people who have gone through tough times in life like civil war, or people who have very unique past job experiences and so on. Schools dont want to enroll nerds. They want a student body that is socially and experientially diverse.

For example, let us consider the University of Toronto's Rotman school of business. Their current average GMAT score is 661 to 730. If a white Canadian student applies with a 740, and has to compete with a student from Papua New Guinea with a score of 660 and a very unique profile and life experiences, it is likely that the Canadian student may get passed over for the international student. Because the international student adds more to the experiences of the student body, than the garden variety white Canadian guy. Mind you this is not even affirmative action, but this is just an example of how admissions work.

That is how admissions work, and they are right. The purpose of education is not just to score grades and graduate, it is to expose students to a diversity of experiences and learning. Otherwise it is just rote learning.
 

Darts

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Jan 15, 2017
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"very unique profile and life experiences,"
Some/many white people also have unique profiles and life experiences too.
 

JohnLarue

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Jan 19, 2005
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1. Who told you that affirmative action students have C+ or B-? Stating that they do, is first and foremost racist. Affirmative action students also score A or A-.
if Affirmative action students also score A or A-, then there is absolutly no need for affirmative action
They will be admitted based on merit , if they match up to the best of the applicant pool

demanding Affirmative action is an admission you do not believe visible minorities or women can compete vs. white males
I believe they can compete

2. To answer your question. Yes, it is fair.
no it is not
you are discriminating against white students for wrongs committed before they were born
it is both discriminatory and vengeful


it is also fair, to pass over a minority with an A or A- and instead opt to enroll a white student with a C+
.
if marks are the criteria, the minority student gets the nod
it is bewildering to think you did not understand this

It is fair to pass on people with higher scores because it is your overall profile that matters. People with stellar extracurriculars, or people who have a unique profile, or people who are from a little known country, or people who have low scores but are entrepreneurial or have shown entrepreneurial qualities
,
all reasonable considerations except country of origin, that is irrelevant

people who have gone through tough times in life like civil war,
that is also irrelevant
sorry you had to experience war up close however that is not relevant
unless one served in the military and acquired the discipline and team work experience required

or people who have very unique past job experiences and so on.
this is relevant

Schools dont want to enroll nerds. They want a student body that is socially and experientially diverse.
that pendulum has swung too far to the left

graduating thousands of soon to be unemployable social justice warriors, whose present career appears to gluing themselves to freeways and / or art work

schools actually need to enroll students who will be successful in a program which leads to employment


For example, let us consider the University of Toronto's Rotman school of business. Their current average GMAT score is 661 to 730. If a white Canadian student applies with a 740, and has to compete with a student from Papua New Guinea with a score of 660 and a very unique profile and life experiences, it is likely that the Canadian student may get passed over for the international student. Because the international student adds more to the experiences of the student body, than the garden variety white Canadian guy. Mind you this is not even affirmative action, but this is just an example of how admissions work
.

and that would be wrong
740 is a very strong score
i have observed the progress of +700 scores through a similar program, they outperformed and by a significant amount
a 700+ score should be a layup admission , independent of race

I have also observed some (but not all) English as a second language students struggle in programs,
communication and presentation skills were abysmal
Hard working, highly analytical , truly nice people, however, very quite and reserved people who needed to be assigned work in any team orientated exercise
nice hard working people, however limited leadership potential

on a more positive note: Similar minorities with more English experience struggled far less

Businees absolutly requires strong communication skills
That is how hat is how admissions work,t., and they are right.
you mean that is how admissions did work,

and they are right.
apparently not in the USA , according to their supreme court

T The purpose of education is not just to score grades and graduate, it is to expose students to a diversity of experiences and learning. Otherwise it is just rote learning.
The purpose of education is to prepare students for the next phase of their life, which for many is entering the workforce
work is far more demanding than school

A well educated , productive workforce it is a requirement for a healthy economy,
A healthy economy, is a requirement for a healthy peaceful society

Affirmative action is both discriminatory and vengeful
 
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