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Abortion...

Quest4Less

Well-known member
May 25, 2002
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Anyone else hear that abortion is now illegal in one US state (South Dakota I think it is)... apparently the Governor has just passed legislation that will only allow it in cases where the mothers life is in danger...

Talk about turning back the clock....
 

Svend

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Feb 10, 2005
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Abortion access is spotty across Canada as well. It's not available in Prince Edward Island, or in many rural areas. Area medical services are often being consolidated in a single hospital. If the surviving facility is operated by a Roman Catholic group, then individuals and couples are frequently denied local access to birth control, STD and abortion information and services.
 

Quest4Less

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May 25, 2002
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riiiggghhhttt....

Oil Please said:
Because its MURDER!!!!!!
So if a woman gets raped and a pregnancy results then it's Gods will that she be forced to have the child right?
 
F

feminista

svend there is a huge difference between making something illegal and not having access to services due to geography and political will. There IS access and a few phone calls will get it for anyone anywhere in canada even if it takes a small plane.

Since i was in highschool I have worked with a variety of agencies who officially or not will provide transportation to areas where services are available. i have driven women myself.

of course the obstacles you speak of r real but thankfully there are organizations to help over come the catholic problem and our massive geography in canada.
 

WhaWhaWha

Banned
Aug 17, 2001
5,989
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Between a rock and a hard place
The law is not perfect by any means. I agree that any society that uses abortion merely as a means of contraception following careless planning is in moral decline. I believe it should be reserved for exceptional cases. But who decides what constitutes these cases. There are a myriad of valid reasons for and against deciding, that don't end with risk to the mother's life.

Incest, for example. Despite the obvious risks, I have had the privilege of meeting a very brave soldier who now works as a civil engineer in Israel, whose parents are in fact first cousins.

Conception from rape, for another. Imagine a mother going through with the birth and one day recognizing her attacker in the face of her beloved child. On the other hand, I know a grown child of rape, and in fact she is not only an important part of my life, she contributes such a great deal to society's good, her presence on or absence from this planet is immeasurable -- in George Bailey proportions. Her last birthday celebration filled her house to the rafters. I was a wanted child and spent my last birthday with her and noone else.

And in the long run, I can see a whole host of other reasons. Even in the case of couples who simply can't face up to an unplanned pregnancy. They didn't know enough to behave responsibly up to that point, and are now expected to take responsibility for another life. A recipe for disaster for three people or an adoption opportunity for a couple who can't have their own? Who can decide? Only the mother should.

This argument always brings to mind the silly moral dilemma / riddle about the woman who was pregnant, who had 8 kids already, three who were deaf, two who were blind, one mentally retarded, and she had syphilis. Would you recommend that she have an abortion? If you answered yes, like me, then you just opted to kill Ludwig Von Beethoven.

________________________________________________
The abortion argument boils down to deciding when life begins. The Catholic Church says "conception." The politicians say "birth." My rabbi says, "when the kids leave home and the dog dies."
 
F

feminista

you could be aborting a future einstein or a bernardo. that is irrelevent. z/e/f's have no names. they aren't people.
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if anyone is looking for info abortion stats the most study done on this and related topics is by the world renowned Guttmacher Institute. It is not left or right. it is independent and accurate.

here is and example. notice that americans who have far more restrictions on abortion access and sex-ed have more teen pregnancy and abortion.

http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_teens.html
http://www.prochoiceamerica.org/news/press-releases/2006/pr03062006_sd_govsigns.html
http://www.now.org/press/03-06/03-06.html
 

papasmerf

New member
Oct 22, 2002
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feminista said:
you could be aborting a future einstein or a bernardo. that is irrelevent. z/e/f's have no names. they aren't people.
-------------------------------------------------------

if anyone is looking for info abortion stats the most study done on this and related topics is by the world renowned Guttmacher Institute. It is not left or right. it is independent and accurate.

here is and example. notice that americans who have far more restrictions on abortion access and sex-ed have more teen pregnancy and abortion.

http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_teens.html
http://www.prochoiceamerica.org/news/press-releases/2006/pr03062006_sd_govsigns.html
http://www.now.org/press/03-06/03-06.html

You must really hate your mother for your birth.

Damn shame you can not love life.
 
F

feminista

You must really hate your mother for your birth.
Damn shame you can not love life.
yet another senile remark from blue grampa.

I love life and my wonderful mother who died when she was 40.
Good one smerf.

stem cell research could find a cure 4 U.
Ask one of your doctors about it.

I was done engaging you, but u forget quickly.

Bye for good gramps.
 

papasmerf

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Oct 22, 2002
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feminista said:
yet another senile remark from blue grampa.

I love life and my wonderful mother who died when she was 40.
Good one smerf.

stem cell research could find a cure 4 U.
Ask one of your doctors about it.

I was done engaging you, but u forget quickly.

Bye for good gramps.
Then why do you feel it is your mission in life to deny others love and life?

You are not rational in this
 

RTRD

Registered User
Sep 26, 2003
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Wrong...

Quest4Less said:
Anyone else hear that abortion is now illegal in one US state (South Dakota I think it is)... apparently the Governor has just passed legislation that will only allow it in cases where the mothers life is in danger...

Talk about turning back the clock....
Not that I am in favor of restricting abortion rights, but I hate it when people just use rhetoric - it reduces the power of a real argument that needs to be made.

1) The new law RESTRICTS abortion...limits it greatly...but does not make it illegal. You could argue (effectively) the same thing, but legally, the difference is important. A woman can still gain access to an abortion if her life is at risk.

2) The law will WITHOUT DOUBT be IMMEDIATELY enjoined by a judge. Meaning nothing has changed. It is merely a legal maneuver, designed to take a shot a Roe V. Wade.

Should people / women in the U.S. be concerned? If they believe that a woman has a right to chose, ABSOLUTELY. The reality however is that this law will take years to meander through the courts before it makes it to the Supreme Court, where the REAL test will take place. Then we will see if those "soccer / security" moms who fucking voted for Bush like what happens...

All that said, not only are you jumping the gun, but WTF do you care? Are you in the US? Do you need an abortion?

Wait, I forgot, it is the Canadian pastime - obsessing about the United States....
 

ocean976124

Arrogant American Idiot
Oct 28, 2002
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I'd be utterly shocked if this case actually made it to the Supreme Court. Basically the lower courts are going to unanimously rule that the law is unconstitutional and the Supreme Court RARELY hears a case unless there are conflicting rulings in the lower courts.
The only way I see this case going anywhere is if the Supreme Court makes some change in abortion's constitutional foundation in the Partial Birth Abortion case they are about to hear. But the odds are that they'll just find it constitutional or unconstitutional and not make any significant changes that would confuse the lower courts.
 

zanner69

THE LIVING LEGEND-RETIRED
Quest4Less said:
Anyone else hear that abortion is now illegal in one US state (South Dakota I think it is)... apparently the Governor has just passed legislation that will only allow it in cases where the mothers life is in danger...

Talk about turning back the clock....
here is the link

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-02-25-abortion-ban_x.htm

if it does go through - it will be challenged at the U.S. Supreme Court Level and who knows you have the conservative justices like Roberts, Alito, Scalia and Thomas on the bench who might try to uphold it (it will be very stupid of them to do so) but it looks like Kennedy is going to be the swing vote.
 
F

feminista

The new law RESTRICTS abortion...limits it greatly...but does not make it illegal
Yes it does. It outlaws all abortions with the only exception being to save the life of the pregnant person. So like 97% of abortions currently done there would be criminals acts.
 

Quest4Less

Well-known member
May 25, 2002
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Clarification...

Oil Please said:
If this is how it results fine, but how often do rape victims become pregnent?
So "MURDER" is okay under some conditions then?
 

booboobear

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Aug 20, 2003
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feminista said:
Yes it does. It outlaws all abortions with the only exception being to save the life of the pregnant person. So like 97% of abortions currently done there would be criminals acts.

Just curious up until what month do you think a woman has the right to terminate a pregnancy. Second question is what gives you the right to decide when a fetus is a person , that seems to be your only reasoning but I don't think you have the authority to make that decision.
 

slew foot

Banned
Mar 2, 2006
21
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Oil Please said:
If this is how it results fine, but how often do rape victims become pregnent?

i see someone else thinks like those south dakotans that snuggle up to their sheep at night. good job.
 
F

feminista

personhood is a legal status. i don't designate it. the law does.
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but how often do rape victims become pregnent?
who cares? relevence? it happens. even some non-catholic hospitals who treat rape victims often will not provide raped people with emergency contraception or even tell them it's available.
 

booboobear

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Aug 20, 2003
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feminista said:
personhood is a legal status. i don't designate it. the law does.
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The law is made by people who are fallible . I didn't say you made the law I asked what you thought , you think it's ok to destroy a fetus but you can't think when they are a person. When you don't want to face the issue put the responsibilty somewhere else.
 
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