A question on the right to self defense

El_Cid

Member
Oct 25, 2002
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seth gecko said:
I'd shoot at #1, as is the custom of my people....Sicilians!
Gotta respect the people who perfected a good ol' fashioned vendetta.

I shoot at 4, to wound, if he decided to get up and still has his gun I aim for his head.
 

kkelso

Well-known member
Apr 27, 2003
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Don said:
I take the concept of shooting someone very very seriously and something I'd like to avoid. If there is a chance that a warning shot might scare the guy away without any bloodshed, I'll give it a shot (literally).
Fair enough - thanks.
 

rockl

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Jun 4, 2007
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at #5 i would shoot to kill for certain
at #4 well, maybe but uncertain. i'd probably draw the actual line in the sand to be as soon as the door opened
 

333conan

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Mar 30, 2007
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If someone isn't on your property, gun or not, the bst thing to do is call the police if you feel threatened. If he comes on your property with a gun, you should be allowed to kill him. If he tries or succeds to get in your house, it doesn't matter if you know he's armed or not, as far s I'm concerned, he forfiets all his right to good health. Even if he is running out of the house, he is fair game. If the police shoot at a criminal who is running away, they are allowed, why can't we? Criminals have more rights in our houses than we do these days. If I was on a jury where someone killed or assaulted an intruder, I would vote not guilty every time, nobody could change my mind. More people should have that mindset, then we would be allowed to defend ourselves without having to worry about jail time. Remember folks, It's better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6
 

333conan

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Mar 30, 2007
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Don said:
Where'd you get this idea?
Please don't tell me you've never heard of the police shooting at a known criminal for evading capture.
 

Don

Active member
Aug 23, 2001
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333conan said:
Please don't tell me you've never heard of the police shooting at a known criminal for evading capture.
I HAVE heard of investigations into police actions when they use unnecessary force.
 

goldfinger

Member
Feb 25, 2004
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ontario
No matter what transpires in the end the cops will try and take your guns.

911 paranoia has them wanting to take guns away from law abiding people.

If you answer a question about your shooting ability and you have an argument with another person the first person can use your words to the cops. You words can and will be used against you. the cops want to get your guns even if you prove your point, You are in the wrong no matter how you look at it . :eek:
 

Aardvark154

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Jan 19, 2006
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Is this a legal question, and if so in what jurisdiction - Ontario or elsewhere?

Or, is this a hypothetical morality-ethics question?
 

papasmerf

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Oct 22, 2002
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42.55.65N 78.43.73W
Always fire 3 shots.

A warning shot and it should be into a wall


A shot to disable the assailant


And a terminal shot



The order in which they are fired is up to you
 

Aardvark154

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kkelso said:
The following series of events take place. At what point in this sequence of events is it ethically and morally (ignore legalities) acceptable to shoot?

1 - A man you do not know in your vicinity buys a gun
2 - The man walks by your house several times with gun in hand
3 - The man walks onto your property
4 - The man test your back door handle to see if it's locked
5 - The man enters your house
6 - The man shoots at you but misses
7 - The man shoots and hits you.
It's hard to ignore the legalities. What legal or moral right do you have to use deadly force for 1-4?

For five is the man armed, are you in fear of your life? The fact that you are in your own house in most North American jurisdictions would eliminate the necessity of "retreat."

Absolutely you have the right to use deadly force for 6 & 7.
 

Aardvark154

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Jan 19, 2006
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kkelso said:
So to be clear, a guy with a gun in his hand just forced his way through your back door and is standing in your kitchen, you would fire a shot in the ceiling to warn him off?
Ah, you didn't write that in your first post.

The person has entered your house univited with a firearm. You need to give them warning "drop the gun" - at that point - if they don't you have a good legal argument that you were in fear of your life and that use of deadly force was permissible.
 

tboy

resident smartass
Aug 18, 2001
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way out in left field
Mencken said:
Trick question.
The man is a cop.
If he didn't announce that he was the police, and he had no legal reason for being there, doesn't matter. Police aren't exempt from the law (and cops DO break the law as demonstrated recently with a cop caught DUI).
 

kkelso

Well-known member
Apr 27, 2003
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Aardvark154 said:
Is this a legal question, and if so in what jurisdiction - Ontario or elsewhere?

Or, is this a hypothetical morality-ethics question?

This is a "hypothetical morality-ethics question", so jurisdiction does not come into it. I suppose the reason I worded it the way I did was the presumption that in this exact situation, with my kids sleeping upstairs, I probably wouldn't be thinking about the the law.
 

Brill

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Jun 29, 2008
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kkelso said:
This is a "hypothetical morality-ethics question", so jurisdiction does not come into it. I suppose the reason I worded it the way I did was the presumption that in this exact situation, with my kids sleeping upstairs, I probably wouldn't be thinking about the the law.
You aren't concerned they might have to visit daddy in jail? :rolleyes:
 

kkelso

Well-known member
Apr 27, 2003
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Brill said:
You aren't concerned they might have to visit daddy in jail? :rolleyes:
I'm sure I would be concerned. But in the two break-ins and one robbery I've experienced in my life I was not standing there ticking points of law off my fingers, I was reacting on instinct. Of course all of those were before I had kids.

All of that being said, the subject of the question is what you feel is acceptable.
 

thompo69

Member
Nov 11, 2004
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Aardvark154 said:
It's hard to ignore the legalities. What legal or moral right do you have to use deadly force for 1-4?

For five is the man armed, are you in fear of your life? The fact that you are in your own house in most North American jurisdictions would eliminate the necessity of "retreat."

Absolutely you have the right to use deadly force for 6 & 7.
Bingo. When the question involves "rights" it is very hard to ignore legalities.
 

kkelso

Well-known member
Apr 27, 2003
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thompo69 said:
Bingo. When the question involves "rights" it is very hard to ignore legalities.
Yes, very hard. It's clear that to several of the posters so far their standard is:

rights = legal
 
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