..well if you knew your facts that would be because they bypassed all the heavily fortified islands and attacked the smaller ones, very good strategy indeed, unfortunately you are really beging to sound less and less knowledgeable. To say the US was not a junior partner in WW1 shows your lack of Knowledge. It was the future waves of American troops that decided trhe matter for the Germans not anything the Americans contributed in actual fighting on the ground.
4 More Years!
- Thread starter onthebottom
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They bypassed "all the heavily fortified islands", huh? Uh, like Okinawa? Guam? Guadalcanal?
Please.
And what does that have to do with it anyway?! The Marines were being shredded all through the Pacific campaign. Why, if you contend that they were ready to use these weapons, didn't they??
And bub, in WWI the US suffered more casualties in one year of fighting on the western front than Canada over the course of the war.
Do some research first. Seriously. You're embarrassing yourself.
Please.
And what does that have to do with it anyway?! The Marines were being shredded all through the Pacific campaign. Why, if you contend that they were ready to use these weapons, didn't they??
And bub, in WWI the US suffered more casualties in one year of fighting on the western front than Canada over the course of the war.
Do some research first. Seriously. You're embarrassing yourself.
LOL
Dude, I'm done with you.
Do some reading.
Then come back and try to defend your assertions.
Again, if they had these weapons, and were prepared to use them, *why didn't they*, during the long, arduous crawl of amphibious invasions through the Pacific?
It's clear you have very limited knowledge of WWI and WWII history.
Dude, I'm done with you.
Do some reading.
Then come back and try to defend your assertions.
Again, if they had these weapons, and were prepared to use them, *why didn't they*, during the long, arduous crawl of amphibious invasions through the Pacific?
It's clear you have very limited knowledge of WWI and WWII history.
Still waiting.
And also still waiting for defense of the assertion that the US was a "junior partner" in WWI, despite suffering more casualties than Canada and contributing about SEVEN TIMES more men to the fighting than we did, in one short year of war. (Yes, you were wrong about us having a larger army.)
And also still waiting for defense of the assertion that the US was a "junior partner" in WWI, despite suffering more casualties than Canada and contributing about SEVEN TIMES more men to the fighting than we did, in one short year of war. (Yes, you were wrong about us having a larger army.)
..ya I am going to spen several hours looking up all the names of the Japanese held islands they bypassed, the fact that you do not even know this was a major part of MacArthurs strategy tells me you know knothing, as for WW1, junior in comparison to France and Britain.
Folks, I'll say it again.
The US was the ONLY major combatant NOT to use chemical weapons during WWI. To propose that the US was prepared to use chemical weapons on the Japanese populace to support an invasion of the homeland is preposterous.
As far as the history of imperial powers goes, the US has been the MOST BENIGN by far - exercising the most judicious use of power BY FAR.
This, perhaps, is somewhat akin to saying that the Son of Sam was the nicest mass murderer in history, but there it is.
If you're going to criticize US foreign policy, *in toto*, you'd better be prepared to look at the histories of all the other great powers in history.
This is not a defense of W, whose actions in Iraq are baffling, at best. But, as has been mentioned in other threads, to talk of an Iraqi *genocide*, or to assert that Americans are idiots for voting for him, is just absurd.
The US was the ONLY major combatant NOT to use chemical weapons during WWI. To propose that the US was prepared to use chemical weapons on the Japanese populace to support an invasion of the homeland is preposterous.
As far as the history of imperial powers goes, the US has been the MOST BENIGN by far - exercising the most judicious use of power BY FAR.
This, perhaps, is somewhat akin to saying that the Son of Sam was the nicest mass murderer in history, but there it is.
If you're going to criticize US foreign policy, *in toto*, you'd better be prepared to look at the histories of all the other great powers in history.
This is not a defense of W, whose actions in Iraq are baffling, at best. But, as has been mentioned in other threads, to talk of an Iraqi *genocide*, or to assert that Americans are idiots for voting for him, is just absurd.
No, I got the point just fine the first time, thanks. As I said I wasn't interested in what you and Don were bickering about, just your assertion that the 101st "didn't really do much ass-kicking". Sorry, but you're wrong. The Germans who attacked them suffered far worse.Ranger68 said:*sigh* Glad you're missing the point.
Actually, not to put to fine a point on things, but to claim that the 101st but a beating on *three German divisions* is false. They were repeatedly attacked by artillery and infantry from Panzer Lehr, but after the first day, the armour of that division had moved on. I have not seen your number of *200* armoured vehicles destroyed by the 101st ANYWHERE, and find it very hard to believe actually, since they were NOT prepared for attacks by armoured vehicles. (Not to mention the fact that Panzer Lehr, to my knowledge, almost certainly couldn't have MUSTERED this number at the outset of the battle.)
If you could give me a source for this, I'd be more tempted to believe it.
Anyway, I think beyond that we are the semantics of "ass-kicking".
If you could give me a source for this, I'd be more tempted to believe it.
Anyway, I think beyond that we are the semantics of "ass-kicking".
Asterix,
If you are talking about losses inflicted on the enemy by *attached elements* - specifically, elements of the 9th and 10th Armoured Division, quite a number of unrelated artillery units thrown in ad hoc, the 705th Tank Destroyer Battalion, and numerous engineering units - all of whom were better equipped (or equipped at all) to fight off an armoured assault - then we're on the same page.
Then again, in light of these attached elements, to attribute the defense of Bastogne to the 101st Airborne alone would be pretty unfair, considering that they would almost certainly have been overrun without these units. In fact, the Americans came very close to *evacuating* the 101st, but were unable to follow up on the order due to the fact that events had outstripped their abilities to react to them - namely, Bastogne was already surrounded.
Fact is, the 101st held Bastogne against very long odds, and got the crap beaten out of it in the process. Other units also defending rang up a heavy toll of the German assaults.
If you are talking about losses inflicted on the enemy by *attached elements* - specifically, elements of the 9th and 10th Armoured Division, quite a number of unrelated artillery units thrown in ad hoc, the 705th Tank Destroyer Battalion, and numerous engineering units - all of whom were better equipped (or equipped at all) to fight off an armoured assault - then we're on the same page.
Then again, in light of these attached elements, to attribute the defense of Bastogne to the 101st Airborne alone would be pretty unfair, considering that they would almost certainly have been overrun without these units. In fact, the Americans came very close to *evacuating* the 101st, but were unable to follow up on the order due to the fact that events had outstripped their abilities to react to them - namely, Bastogne was already surrounded.
Fact is, the 101st held Bastogne against very long odds, and got the crap beaten out of it in the process. Other units also defending rang up a heavy toll of the German assaults.
Don
PS: a student mouthed off to him. He put the student through
the blackboard. End of disciplinary problems for 4 years.
Bill Gutbrod was his name. What a man! That's why I volunteered
for the 101st, the Screaming Eagles. [/B][/QUOTE]
I wish we had more teachers like that. There has been one true success for the D's, the hijacking of our education system.
History has given way to a lecture on condoms and arithmetic has given way to "Mary has two moms". Shit.
The greatest asset of a country is it's people. To educate them well, is the best thing a society can do.
Knowledge is power.
PS: a student mouthed off to him. He put the student through
the blackboard. End of disciplinary problems for 4 years.
Bill Gutbrod was his name. What a man! That's why I volunteered
for the 101st, the Screaming Eagles. [/B][/QUOTE]
I wish we had more teachers like that. There has been one true success for the D's, the hijacking of our education system.
History has given way to a lecture on condoms and arithmetic has given way to "Mary has two moms". Shit.
The greatest asset of a country is it's people. To educate them well, is the best thing a society can do.
Knowledge is power.
I am not talking about money. I am talking about philosophy.
I suugest you go back and look at a curiculum of our founding fathers.
While i am not sure we all need to be able to read Cicero in it's original, but between that and what is being taught today, there has to be something better.
I had the luxury of being educated in Germany. Americans are being short changed when it comes to education. Unless you have the money to go an elite school.
If i compare the level of instruction ad the amount of homework of my niece and my own children I get worried. They are so far ahead of our children. canada is not much better than the USA in that regard.
No my argument is not bogus. As always it comes from personal experience.
I suugest you go back and look at a curiculum of our founding fathers.
While i am not sure we all need to be able to read Cicero in it's original, but between that and what is being taught today, there has to be something better.
I had the luxury of being educated in Germany. Americans are being short changed when it comes to education. Unless you have the money to go an elite school.
If i compare the level of instruction ad the amount of homework of my niece and my own children I get worried. They are so far ahead of our children. canada is not much better than the USA in that regard.
No my argument is not bogus. As always it comes from personal experience.
For those with long attention spans there are many sources for the heroics of the 101 in WWII, for those ADD readers I'd suggest Band of Brothers on DVD. Common men doing uncommon things - the greatest generation indeed!
But I'm sure in the 40s there were some short sighted people saying that the war in Europe was none of our business and that Germany was no threat to the US.
OTB
But I'm sure in the 40s there were some short sighted people saying that the war in Europe was none of our business and that Germany was no threat to the US.
OTB
Isolationists
Well OTB, the people in the US not wanting to get involved in WWII Europe were the "right wingers".
My original point was not to debate the morality of war, but to say that the American electorate apparently doesn't take the Iraq war very seriously, according to the exit polls.
Or perhaps they could not distinguish a difference in the way the Iraq war would be conducted by the D's or R's.
Obviously though, the R's will pursue the use of force to cause further regime change. This will be very much a "US only" campaign.
This is much more significant in my view, at least, than gays
getting married. The 17% youth turnout also casts a long shadow over US democracy.
Well OTB, the people in the US not wanting to get involved in WWII Europe were the "right wingers".
My original point was not to debate the morality of war, but to say that the American electorate apparently doesn't take the Iraq war very seriously, according to the exit polls.
Or perhaps they could not distinguish a difference in the way the Iraq war would be conducted by the D's or R's.
Obviously though, the R's will pursue the use of force to cause further regime change. This will be very much a "US only" campaign.
This is much more significant in my view, at least, than gays
getting married. The 17% youth turnout also casts a long shadow over US democracy.
Re: Isolationists
Good point. And let's not forget it was the looney leftists who courageously opened the first (if ineffective) front against European fascism in Spain, including the Mackenzie-Papineau Battalion from Canada and the Abraham Lincoln Brigade from the States, while conservative voices for the most part adopted sentiments that ranged from appeasement to isolationism to outright collaborationism.
clipper said:Well OTB, the people in the US not wanting to get involved in WWII Europe were the "right wingers".
Good point. And let's not forget it was the looney leftists who courageously opened the first (if ineffective) front against European fascism in Spain, including the Mackenzie-Papineau Battalion from Canada and the Abraham Lincoln Brigade from the States, while conservative voices for the most part adopted sentiments that ranged from appeasement to isolationism to outright collaborationism.
Yes, but I think the media is making way, way too much out of these exit polls, which are models of untrustworthiness. They were the same ones that predicted a huge win for Kerry in the early hours of the election.My original point was not to debate the morality of war, but to say that the American electorate apparently doesn't take the Iraq war very seriously, according to the exit polls.
Yes, I think we're pretty much on the same page. It was what I thought was your earlier dismission of the 101st that got me started. Perhaps I misinterpreted.Ranger68 said:Asterix,
If you are talking about losses inflicted on the enemy by *attached elements* - specifically, elements of the 9th and 10th Armoured Division, quite a number of unrelated artillery units thrown in ad hoc, the 705th Tank Destroyer Battalion, and numerous engineering units - all of whom were better equipped (or equipped at all) to fight off an armoured assault - then we're on the same page.
Thermopylae? I don't think so. A more apt comparison would be Buford outside of Gettysburg.
