Civil War: MAGA in Turmoil

Shaquille Oatmeal

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Jun 2, 2023
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You are misusing the term "potential citizens" in the report and using AI to misinterpret it out of context.
The report says:
In recent years, some U.S. citizens have claimed they were mistakenly identified as foreign nationals and detained by U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) or held by U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) on immigration charges.
The term "Potential Citizens" here denotes uncertainty on the person's status.
Not green card holders or others who are not citizens.
Not to mention, non-citizens who are on the pathway to become legal citizens such as green hard holders, can also not be deported for no reason.
That is still unlawful and unconstitutional.
 
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WyattEarp

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May 17, 2017
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My bad then, I read it wrong.

But the paragraph you posted actually makes your case look even worse, because it says Trump deported POTENTIAL citizens, it doesn't say actual citizens.

Maybe they were in the process of getting their US citizenship, but they were suspected criminals or terrorists, and thats why they were deported??

If thats true then it makes Trump's deportations perfectly legal
I doubt anyone here is really an expert on U.S. immigration law.
I have a hard time following the immigration debate when the media outlet and the reporter clearly are showing bias or leaving out details.
I read an article about an illegal immigrant not getting due process. I then find another discussing a conviction or evading justice for a violent crime. In some instances, the reporter vaguely mentions appealing court decisions.

Now we have obvious biases here, but I know some of us don't necessarily believe that people in our countries illegally are entitled to extended appeals processes. In my opinion, this just supports the Biden-era thought process. Get them into the country and we will figure out the rest later. You know they're "potential citizens". I guess "undocumented" is no longer registering with a majority of the public.
 
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Phil C. McNasty

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Dec 27, 2010
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You are misusing the term "potential citizens" in the report and using AI to misinterpret it out of context.
The report says:

The term "Potential Citizens" here denotes uncertainty on the person's status.
Not green card holders or others who are not citizens.
Not to mention, non-citizens who are on the pathway to become legal citizens such as green hard holders, can also not be deported for no reason.
That is still unlawful and unconstitutional
Lets say your interpretation of "potential citizens" is correct. From Valcie's article:

" Available data indicate ICE and CBP took enforcement actions against some U.S. citizens. For example, available ICE data indicate that ICE arrested 674, detained 121, and removed 70 potential U.S. citizens from fiscal year 2015 through the second quarter of fiscal year 2020"
In that case it means the 70 potential US citizens were investigated and deemed not to be US citizens.
Until you show evidence that contradicts that its the only conclusion you can make
 

Shaquille Oatmeal

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Jun 2, 2023
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In that case it means the 70 potential US citizens were investigated and deemed not to be US citizens.
Until you show evidence that contradicts that its the only conclusion you can make
That is not necessary.
The default position here should be to distrust the administration.
Given the premise of the article which I quoted earlier:
In recent years, some U.S. citizens have claimed they were mistakenly identified as foreign nationals
And given the Trump administration's documented actions to actually remove citizens:
I think it is reasonable to conclude that the Trump administration's actions are most likely unlawful and unconstitutional and motivated by an underlying ethno-cultural agenda.
 

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
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My bad then, I read it wrong.

But the paragraph you posted actually makes your case look even worse, because it says Trump deported POTENTIAL citizens, it doesn't say actual citizens.

Maybe they were in the process of getting their US citizenship, but they were suspected criminals or terrorists, and thats why they were deported??

If thats true then it makes Trump's deportations perfectly legal
Again, you could try and, you know, read the article.

I know you proudly argued that Conservatives are dumber, but I'm not sure why you are putting effort into that idea.

"Further, while ICE policy requires officers to document citizenship investigations in ICE data systems, it does not require officers to update the citizenship field after identifying evidence that an individual may be a U.S. citizen. As a result, ICE does not know the extent to which its officers are taking enforcement actions against individuals who could be U.S. citizens."

Does the chart Valcazar posted show deportations of POTENTIAL citizens or ACTUAL US citizens??
Potential, as explained in the text of the report summary.
 

Phil C. McNasty

Go Jays Go
Dec 27, 2010
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Again, you could try and, you know, read the article.

I know you proudly argued that Conservatives are dumber, but I'm not sure why you are putting effort into that idea.

"Further, while ICE policy requires officers to document citizenship investigations in ICE data systems, it does not require officers to update the citizenship field after identifying evidence that an individual may be a U.S. citizen. As a result, ICE does not know the extent to which its officers are taking enforcement actions against individuals who could be U.S. citizens."
Then thats simply a bug that needs to be fixed, but it doesnt show Trump is INTENTIONALLY deporting US citizens.
Also, if ICE doesnt know "how many enforcement actions against individuals are against U.S. citizens.", then how could the GAO report possible know it??

If actual US citizens are deported illegally, all they would have to do is call a lawyer, show that lawyer the proper documents, and file a lawsuit.
You might not even have to file a a lawsuit, you could probably just contact US immigration office and have the deportation reversed.

Again, you guys are making mountains out of molehills.
You're good at that though, I'll give you that much
 
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Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
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I doubt anyone here is really an expert on U.S. immigration law.
I have a hard time following the immigration debate when the media outlet and the reporter clearly are showing bias or leaving out details.
I read an article about an illegal immigrant not getting due process. I then find another discussing a conviction or evading justice for a violent crime. In some instances, the reporter vaguely mentions appealing court decisions.

Now we have obvious biases here, but I know some of us don't necessarily believe that people in our countries illegally are entitled to extended appeals processes. In my opinion, this just supports the Biden-era thought process. Get them into the country and we will figure out the rest later. You know they're "potential citizens". I guess "undocumented" is no longer registering with a majority of the public.
That's a lot of motivated reasoning, Wyatt.
 

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
38,049
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Lets say your interpretation of "potential citizens" is correct. From Valcie's article:



In that case it means the 70 potential US citizens were investigated and deemed not to be US citizens.
Until you show evidence that contradicts that its the only conclusion you can make
No it does not show that.
Again, have you tried reading the piece, instead of trying to mine it for sound bites to try and defend your position?

Or you could read the whole report if you wanted to.
 

Phil C. McNasty

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