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What if Ukraine falls? This is no longer a hypothetical question – and it must be answered urgently

oil&gas

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Europe offers platitudes, Trump dithers, and Ukraine and its extraordinary people stand on the brink. Nato must step up

Simon Tisdall
Sun 13 Jul 2025

For 40 cruel and bloody months, Ukraine has fought the Russian invader. Since February 2022, when Moscow’s full-scale, countrywide onslaught began, its people have faced relentless, devastating attacks. Tens of thousands have been killed or wounded, millions have lost their homes. Ukraine’s industries, shops, schools, hospitals and power stations burn, its fertile farmlands are laid waste. Its children are orphaned, traumatised or abducted. Despite repeated appeals, the world has failed to stop the carnage. And yet Ukraine, outnumbered and outgunned, has continued to fight back.

Ukrainian heroism amid horror has become so familiar, it’s almost taken for granted. But as Russia’s president, Vladimir Putin, escalates the war, raining nightly terror on Kyiv and other cities using record waves of armed drones, as US support and peace efforts falter, and as Ukraine’s overstretched frontline soldiers face exhaustion, such complacency looks increasingly misplaced. A no longer hypothetical question becomes ever more real and urgent: what if Ukraine falls?


Answer: Ukraine’s collapse, if it happens, would amount to an epic western strategic failure matching or exceeding the Afghanistan and Iraq calamities. The negative ramifications for Europe, Britain, the transatlantic alliance and international law are truly daunting. That thought alone should concentrate minds.

It has been evident since the dying days of 2023, when its counteroffensive stalled, that Ukraine is not winning. For most of this year, Russian forces have inexorably inched forward in Donetsk and other eastern killing grounds, regardless of cost. Estimated Russian casualties recently surpassed 1 million, dead and wounded. Still they keep coming. While there has been no big Russian breakthrough, for Ukraine’s pinned-down, under-supplied defenders the war is now a daily existential struggle. That they manage to keep going at all is astonishing.

How much longer Ukraine can hold the line, on the battlefield, in the skies, and diplomatically and politically, is in serious doubt. It is short of manpower, ammunition and interceptor missiles. It can still strike back hard. Its occupation of Russia’s Kursk region, and last month’s destruction of strategic bombers based deep inside Russia, were remarkable. But such temporary successes do not alter the basic imbalance of power or general direction of travel.

Increasingly, too, Ukraine is short of reliable friends, though maybe that has always been the case. Putin has assembled his own “coalition of the willing” – China, Iran, North Korea and others – to support his war machine. The west’s equivalent, led by Britain and France, is in limbo. Deployment of a military “reassurance force” cannot proceed. Due to Putin’s intransigence and Donald Trump’s incompetence, there is no ceasefire to uphold and none in prospect.

Speaking in London last week, France’s president, Emmanuel Macron, and Britain’s prime minister, Keir Starmer, regurgitated familiar pledges of unflinching support. That’s easy. Effective military assistance is harder. Like other European countries, the UK and France lack the advanced weapons and materiel, in the quantities required, that only the US can supply.

Attempting to fill the gap, Friedrich Merz, Germany’s chancellor, proposes to buy US Patriot batteries and gift them to Kyiv. Yet like the EU as a whole and last month’s Nato summiteers, Merz’s priority is national self-defence. As he measures out missiles for Ukraine, he’s trebling Germany’s defence spending. The UK is doing much the same.

Trump, the US’s surrender monkey, remains Kyiv’s biggest diplomatic headache. His lopsided 30-day ceasefire plan was rejected by Moscow, his proffered US-Russia commercial deals spurned. After months of slandering Ukraine’s president, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, and sucking up to Putin, the “very stable genius” has concluded the Russian leader, an indicted war criminal, talks “bullshit and cannot be trusted. Well, fancy that.

Trump now says he will resume limited supplies of defensive weapons to Kyiv and may back additional sanctions. But this is not about policy or principle. His ego is damaged. His feelings are hurt. One flattering word from his smirking Kremlin bro could turn him around in a flash. Like all bullies, Trump instinctively favours the stronger party. Little wonder Putin calculates he can wear down Ukraine, outlast the west and win the war.

All is not lost. With or without Trump, Nato could take a tougher line, as repeatedly urged here, by imposing air exclusion zones over unoccupied Ukraine and targeting incoming missiles and drones. The military position is clearcut, the legal and humanitarian case is unassailable. Russia frequently infringes the sovereignty of Nato neighbours. Putin’s attempts at nuclear blackmail, which so unnerved Joe Biden, are contemptible. If it only had the balls, Nato could put him back in his box.

Failing that, new US and EU sanctions targeting Russian oil exports should be imposed without further delay. Billions of Kremlin dollars held by western banks should be expropriated to pay for arms and reconstruction. Fence-straddlers such as India that refuse to sanction the Kremlin and profit from the war should be invited to read the European court of human rights’ shocking new report on Russian war crimes savagery – and told to pick a side.

Two outcomes now seem most probable: a stalemated forever war, or Ukraine’s collapse. Defeat for Ukraine and a settlement on Putin’s hegemonic terms would be a defeat for the west as a whole – a strategic failure presaging an era of permanent, widening conflict across all of Europe. For Russians, too, neither outcome would constitute lasting victory. Greater efforts are needed to convince Russia’s politicians and public that this war, so costly for their country in lives and treasure, can be ended through negotiation, that legitimate security concerns will be addressed, that the alternatives are far worse.

But first, they must give him up. The chief architect of this horror, the principal author of Russia’s disgrace, must be defanged, deposed and delivered to international justice. Putin, not Ukraine, must fall.


 
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oil&gas

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What if Ukraine falls?

The fall of Kyiv will be nothing more catastrophic than for the war to drag on
though I can think of two things:

a) Face loss for NATO.

b) NATO-Europe, the UK and Canada can spend
more money to buy U.S. weapons to strengthen
their own defense as Zelensky campaign for aid
becomes a thing of the past.
 

Ceiling Cat

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Feb 25, 2009
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If Ukraine falls we will be closer to WWIII than we have ever been in the last 80 years. Any invasion/occupation of Ukraine will be backed by Russian nuclear weapons. Any challenge to Russia will also have to be backed with nuclear weapons. To prepare for any counter attacks, Russia will have to take strategic positions in Moldova, the Baltics, and/or Poland. The fall of Ukraine could destabilize Europe and western alliances. If Ukraine falls, the doomsday clock would be ticking seconds from midnight.

 

Shaquille Oatmeal

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Jun 2, 2023
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Ukraine won't fall as that implies some form of Russian air, land and sea dominance that can be sustained over a period of time.
It also implies that the Ukrainian population will just surrender, and the west will accept that as reality.
Not realistic.
Not even the US could maintain complete control of a much weaker countries like Iraq and Afghanistan when they invaded.
Russia does not have the manpower, material or the funds to make occupying the entirety of a large country like Ukraine a realistic option in the long term.
 

squeezer

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Jan 8, 2010
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If and when the proxy ends any outcome other than
the fall of Putin will amount to the fall of Ukraine to
NATO.
When is your comrade Notti coming in to back you up? Notti is your XI? LOL

Read below to know what Putin should expect over the next few weeks.

Not only Patriots
US media outlets reported that Trump might provide Ukraine not only with the air defence Patriot systems, but also with Tomahawk missiles.

The most significant advantage of Tomahawks over all the weaponry currently available to the Ukrainian Armed Forces is their long range.



Depending on the modification, Tomahawk missiles can reach distances of 1,600 to 2,500 kilometres. Currently, no other missile in Kyiv’s arsenal can get that far, apart from Kyiv’s new long-range striking drones.

In addition to its range, the Tomahawk was designed to fly at subsonic speed while maintaining a low altitude, making it difficult to detect on radar. They also have a larger warhead and can carry either a conventional or a nuclear payload.

Tomahawk missiles were used against targets in Iran last month, and if provided to Ukraine, they could reach deep into Russia’s territory.


Meanwhile, further reports from US outlets have claimed that Trump asked Zelenskyy whether Ukraine could strike Moscow if provided with long-range US weapons and why Kyiv had not hit the Russian capital.

Zelenskyy allegedly replied that such an attack would be possible if the US supplied the necessary weapons.

If launched from Ukraine, Tomahawk missiles could reach Moscow and St Petersburg.
 

mandrill

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Aug 23, 2001
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What's up, Oilyovsky?

Russia seize another little village of 100 people at the cost of 10,000 Russian dead?
 

oil&gas

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What's up, Oilyovsky?

Russia seize another little village of 100 people at the cost of 10,000 Russian dead?
10,000 dead Russians means aid money for Ukraine well spent. Trump's weapon
sales to NATO-Europe is surely going to get more Russians killed.
 

squeezer

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I guess post #8 may explain why Putin just can't call it quits. 500 billion is a lot of money.
If you knocked on your neighbor's door, barge in, and kill his wife and kids, what do you think the courts would do to you?

What should happen to you?
 
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onthebottom

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Russia is too inept to take all of Ukraine, if they could they would have by now. Ukraine is too weak to push the Russians out, Europe is not going to give Ukraine the equipment and men they need to expel Russia. It needs to end, Trump is right in that but I don’t think either party is willing to accept the reality on the ground.
 

richaceg

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Feb 11, 2009
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If Ukraine falls we will be closer to WWIII than we have ever been in the last 80 years. Any invasion/occupation of Ukraine will be backed by Russian nuclear weapons. Any challenge to Russia will also have to be backed with nuclear weapons. To prepare for any counter attacks, Russia will have to take strategic positions in Moldova, the Baltics, and/or Poland. The fall of Ukraine could destabilize Europe and western alliances. If Ukraine falls, the doomsday clock would be ticking seconds from midnight.

Oh boohoo... Russia invaded under Joe Biden's watch and didn't do shit with it.... Blame Zelensky for grifting for his personal gains and put Ukraine citizens at risk.
 
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richaceg

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Russia is too inept to take all of Ukraine, if they could they would have by now. Ukraine is too weak to push the Russians out, Europe is not going to give Ukraine the equipment and men they need to expel Russia. It needs to end, Trump is right in that but I don’t think either party is willing to accept the reality on the ground.
Only way Russia can totally invade Ukraine is if NATO/US abandons them before that happens, Ukraine will ouster Zelensky, have an election, have a much stronger leader and slowly regain their lands. with US / NATO help of course.
 
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nottyboi

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Russia can send in drones but they can't take over all of Ukraine.
Instead this war is dragging them down.
Oil prices fell from 80 to 60 since last year. Russian budget is predicated on oil at about 56. So all this talk of Russian collapse is the same nonsense they have been bleating for years. China will NOT ALLOW RUSSIA TO COLLAPSE...not that there is any risk of that now. They have over 680B in foreign reserves not including the 380B in stolen assets. Economic growth slowed to 1.2% due to the oil price dropping, but its still +. If you look at the global chessboard from Chinas perspective. If China is the King, Russia is definitely the Queen.
 
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squeezer

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Oh boohoo... Russia invaded under Joe Biden's watch and didn't do shit with it.... Blame Zelensky for grifting for his personal gains and put Ukraine citizens at risk.
You really don't do your homework, do you Ritchie? If I tell you your underwear is on fire and keep repeating it, would you rush to a swimming pool to dive in a panic?

Think, who would put out that nonsense and bullshit?? Think, it's not that hard to figure out.

 

richaceg

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Feb 11, 2009
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You really don't do your homework, do you Ritchie? If I tell you your underwear is on fire and keep repeating it, would you rush to a swimming pool to dive in a panic?

Think, who would put out that nonsense and bullshit?? Think, it's not that hard to figure out.

Zelensky is a weak leader... all he does is grift...he's about to fall, not Ukraine...the sooner they replace him, the sooner Russia backs off.
 
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