Vaughan Spa

US-Russia talks: The rubber finally hits the road

nottyboi

Well-known member
May 14, 2008
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Trumputin will remove any drawn-in lines so there is no point in me pandering to your ridiculous obsession




Reading is your friend instead of pulling bullshit Putin propaganda out of your ass and NO THE WAR has lasted more than 3 days or 3 weeks and Russia is cannon fodder because Putin doesn't give a rats ass of its people

Only one oblast wanted to be in Ukraine with no special status and by a very marginal vote WELL within the margin of error. If there was a real belief, don't you think that Ukraine would demand a UN monitored referendum? then there is this:

The surveys conducted as part of this research were funded by the US National Science Foundation grant number 1759645, and by the Centre for East European and International Research (ZOiS) Berlin.

Just a western propaganda exercise no better then any Russian propaganda. Only the actions or lack thereof can reveal the reality. And the fact that Ukraine has not demanded "proper" referendums is the guide to what is closer to the truth.
 
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squeezer

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Jan 8, 2010
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Only one oblast wanted to be in Ukraine with no special status and by a very marginal vote WELL within the margin of error. If there was a real belief, don't you think that Ukraine would demand a UN monitored referendum? then there is this:

The surveys conducted as part of this research were funded by the US National Science Foundation grant number 1759645, and by the Centre for East European and International Research (ZOiS) Berlin.

Just a western propaganda exercise no better then any Russian propaganda. Only the actions or lack thereof can reveal the reality. And the fact that Ukraine has not demanded "proper" referendums is the guide to what is closer to the truth.
You are so predictable. Why are you not in a Russian uniform fighting for the cause?? YOu should have no fear since you believe the Russian army has the latest in military equipment. Just present yourself to the Kremlin with a pair of jeans and a tshirt, Vlady will supply you with the rest.
 

squeezer

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Jan 8, 2010
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Between Putin and Zelensky who do you think will gain more
from the war?

If only soldiers fighting on one side of the conflict are
cannon fodder I think that would be the side losing the war.
Those who died on the other side are more like collateral
damage.
They are all collateral damage but the difference is, that one is defending themselves with folks who want to defend their country. The other has invaded a sovereign country and has ruthlessly put his young people and men to death out of sheer senseless narcissistic behavior.

Can you tell me which one is which?
 
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oil&gas

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Apr 16, 2002
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Ghawar
They are all collateral damage but the difference is, that one is defending themselves with folks who want to defend their country. The other has invaded a sovereign country and has ruthlessly put his young people and men to death out of sheer senseless narcissistic behavior.

Can you tell me which one is which?
A war is senseless for the instigator only if the war is lost. Can you tell
who is losing the war if not who is winning? It should be obvious which
side has lost more territories and more human lives than the other side.

You may point to the heroism exhibited by the losing side
in defending the soverignty of its country to argue against me
calling its dead soldiers cannon fodder. But try look at things
this way; in retrospect no concessions Ukraine might have had
to make back in early 2022 to Putin to stop the war would make
all the sacrificies of Ukraine to this day worthwhile.
 

squeezer

Well-known member
Jan 8, 2010
22,461
17,607
113
A war is senseless for the instigator only if the war is lost. Can you tell
who is losing the war if not who is winning? It should be obvious which
side has lost more territories and more human lives than the other side.

You may point to the heroism exhibited by the losing side
in defending the soverignty of its country to argue against me
calling its dead soldiers cannon fodder. But try look at things
this way; in retrospect no concessions Ukraine might have had
to make back in early 2022 to Putin to stop the war would make
all the sacrificies of Ukraine to this day worthwhile.
I guess based on your statement of winner vs loser, Ukraine is kicking ass.

The only acceptable concession Zelenskyy could have made for Putin to not invade would be to give Putin complete control and be his puppet. Kind of like Trumputin is doing.



Given the estimate above, the true number of Russian military deaths could range from 146,194 to 211,169. If one adds estimated losses from DPR and LPR forces, the total number of Russian-aligned fatalities may range from 167,194 to 234,669.

Russia last officially reported its military losses in September 2022, and cited fewer than 6,000 deaths.

Ukraine last updated its casualty figures in December 2024, when President Volodymyr Zelensky acknowledged 43,000 Ukrainian deaths among soldiers and officers. Western analysts believe this figure to be an under-estimate.

The website Ukraine Losses, which compiles casualty data from open sources, currently lists more than 70,400 surnames of Ukrainian soldiers. Our verification of a random sample of 400 of them found the database to be reliable.
 

nottyboi

Well-known member
May 14, 2008
24,064
2,378
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You are so predictable. Why are you not in a Russian uniform fighting for the cause?? YOu should have no fear since you believe the Russian army has the latest in military equipment. Just present yourself to the Kremlin with a pair of jeans and a tshirt, Vlady will supply you with the rest.
Just your usual dumb assed gibberish without refuting any of my points as usual.
 

nottyboi

Well-known member
May 14, 2008
24,064
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Ukraine has lost probabaly close to 1m kia and 1.8m to 2m casualties in total. Not including dessertions. Russia around 100k kia and 300k casualties. Kursk alone cost ukraine over 50k kia.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cgkm7lly61do
I guess based on your statement of winner vs loser, Ukraine is kicking ass.

The only acceptable concession Zelenskyy could have made for Putin to not invade would be to give Putin complete control and be his puppet. Kind of like Trumputin is doing.



Given the estimate above, the true number of Russian military deaths could range from 146,194 to 211,169. If one adds estimated losses from DPR and LPR forces, the total number of Russian-aligned fatalities may range from 167,194 to 234,669.

Russia last officially reported its military losses in September 2022, and cited fewer than 6,000 deaths.

Ukraine last updated its casualty figures in December 2024, when President Volodymyr Zelensky acknowledged 43,000 Ukrainian deaths among soldiers and officers. Western analysts believe this figure to be an under-estimate.

The website Ukraine Losses, which compiles casualty data from open sources, currently lists more than 70,400 surnames of Ukrainian soldiers. Our verification of a random sample of 400 of them found the database to be reliable.
 
Last edited:

squeezer

Well-known member
Jan 8, 2010
22,461
17,607
113
A war is senseless for the instigator only if the war is lost. Can you tell
who is losing the war if not who is winning? It should be obvious which
side has lost more territories and more human lives than the other side.

You may point to the heroism exhibited by the losing side
in defending the soverignty of its country to argue against me
calling its dead soldiers cannon fodder. But try look at things
this way; in retrospect no concessions Ukraine might have had
to make back in early 2022 to Putin to stop the war would make
all the sacrificies of Ukraine to this day worthwhile.
I guess based on your statement of winner vs loser, Ukraine is kicking ass.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cgkm7lly61do


Given the estimate above, the true number of Russian military deaths could range from 146,194 to 211,169. If one adds estimated losses from DPR and LPR forces, the total number of Russian-aligned fatalities may range from 167,194 to 234,669.

Russia last officially reported its military losses in September 2022, and cited fewer than 6,000 deaths.

Ukraine last updated its casualty figures in December 2024, when President Volodymyr Zelensky acknowledged 43,000 Ukrainian deaths among soldiers and officers. Western analysts believe this figure to be an under-estimate.

The website Ukraine Losses, which compiles casualty data from open sources, currently lists more than 70,400 surnames of Ukrainian soldiers. Our verification of a random sample of 400 of them found the database to be reliable.

Ukraine has lost probabaly close to 1m kia and 1.8m to 2m casualties in total. Not including dessertions. Russia around 100k kia and 300k casualties. Kursk alone cost ukraine over 50k kia.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cgkm7lly61do
Please read and absorb the facts above instead of your Russian bullshit talking points.
 

nottyboi

Well-known member
May 14, 2008
24,064
2,378
113
I guess based on your statement of winner vs loser, Ukraine is kicking ass.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cgkm7lly61do


Given the estimate above, the true number of Russian military deaths could range from 146,194 to 211,169. If one adds estimated losses from DPR and LPR forces, the total number of Russian-aligned fatalities may range from 167,194 to 234,669.

Russia last officially reported its military losses in September 2022, and cited fewer than 6,000 deaths.

Ukraine last updated its casualty figures in December 2024, when President Volodymyr Zelensky acknowledged 43,000 Ukrainian deaths among soldiers and officers. Western analysts believe this figure to be an under-estimate.

The website Ukraine Losses, which compiles casualty data from open sources, currently lists more than 70,400 surnames of Ukrainian soldiers. Our verification of a random sample of 400 of them found the database to be reliable.



Please read and absorb the facts above instead of your Russian bullshit talking points.

Once again you actually believe the bullshit. Why would Ukraine be grabbing people off the street if they lost only 70K men? The lost close to that many in the Kursk invasion alone. Somehow you think that Russia can fire vastly more shells and not kill more people. Life does not work like that. Russia has used more precision guided munitions in this war then have been used in any war in history, plus all the older stuff with drone fire correction.
 
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Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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Once again you actually believe the bullshit. Why would Ukraine be grabbing people off the street if they lost only 70K men? The lost close to that many in the Kursk invasion alone. Somehow you think that Russia can fire vastly more shells and not kill more people. Life does not work like that. Russia has used more precision guided munitions in this war then have been used in any war in history, plus all the older stuff with drone fire correction.
Why would Russia be sending criminals into war if they didn't have problems?
 
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nottyboi

Well-known member
May 14, 2008
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113
Why would Russia be sending criminals into war if they didn't have problems?
No political cost to their deaths, no aversion to killing, chance at redemption. So many great reason to let criminals go to war. Russia is not the only country that does it.
 

oil&gas

Well-known member
Apr 16, 2002
14,344
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113
Ghawar
Starmer's 'coalition of the willing’ Ukraine peace plan dismissed as 'political theatre,' Telegraph reports

March 24, 2025

U.K. Prime Minister Keir Starmer's "coalition of the willing" peace plan for Ukraine has been criticized by British military officials as "political theatre," the Telegraph reported on March 23, citing several military sources.

Starmer has called for countries to join a coalition of the willing that will include "planes in the air and boots on the ground" in an effort to secure a successful ceasefire in Ukraine. He previously stressed that the coalition would need "strong U.S. backing" to succeed.

Over 30 countries have expressed willingness to contribute to the coalition's peacekeeping force, Starmer's spokesperson said on March 17, confirming that the initiative has moved into an "operational phase."

On March 21, it was also reported the U.K. could deploy either Typhoon or U.S.-made F-35 fighter jets to conduct air patrols, given their advanced air-to-air capabilities.

But speaking to the Telegraph, a senior British army source called Starmer’s plan "political theater" without a "defined military end-state or military-strategic planning assumptions."

"Starmer got ahead of himself with talk of boots on the ground before he knew what he was talking about, which is why we hear less about it now and more about jets and vessels which are easier to do and don’t need basing in Ukraine," the source said.

Another military source described the situation as a political move with "no military sense," adding that Russia and the U.S. do not support the U.K.-led coalition.

They added there is much uncertainty regarding the role of a "10,000-international force based in the west of the country over 400km (250 miles) from the front line."

The Chief of the Defence Staff Antony Radakin dismissed criticism of the plans and stated that "no one should be in any doubt that this work is critical and substantial."

On March 24, ⁠Radakin and the service chiefs will meet their French counterparts at the UK Defense Ministry's Whitehall headquarters.

On March 21, U.S. special envoy to the Middle East Steve Witkoff, speaking with American far-right political commentator Tucker Carlson, also rubbished Starmer’s plan for a special coalition force to support a ceasefire in Ukraine.

Witkoff called Starmer’s plan "simplistic" and a "posture and a pose." He said he does not believe that Russia wants to further invade Europe or even absorb all of Ukraine.

"There is this sort of notion that we have all got to be like Winston Churchill. Russians are going to march across Europe. That is preposterous by the way," he told Carlson.

 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
95,639
24,453
113
No political cost to their deaths, no aversion to killing, chance at redemption. So many great reason to let criminals go to war. Russia is not the only country that does it.
Sure.
And why was Russia also grabbing people off the streets and putting them in the army?
 

squeezer

Well-known member
Jan 8, 2010
22,461
17,607
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Once again you actually believe the bullshit. Why would Ukraine be grabbing people off the street if they lost only 70K men? The lost close to that many in the Kursk invasion alone. Somehow you think that Russia can fire vastly more shells and not kill more people. Life does not work like that. Russia has used more precision guided munitions in this war then have been used in any war in history, plus all the older stuff with drone fire correction.
No political cost to their deaths, no aversion to killing, chance at redemption. So many great reason to let criminals go to war. Russia is not the only country that does it.
I'm just curious, how much do you pay for the delivery of Putin's tighty whities so you can sniff them before going to bed?
 

nottyboi

Well-known member
May 14, 2008
24,064
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113
Sure.
And why was Russia also grabbing people off the streets and putting them in the army?
I have seen one video of a guy who refused to serve being arrested. Vs scores of Ukrainians being dragged off the streets all over Ukraine by white vans. Russia has not done any more mobilizations since the first one, since then they have recruited troops with financial incentives, just like the good ol USA
 
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oil&gas

Well-known member
Apr 16, 2002
14,344
2,378
113
Ghawar
I guess based on your statement of winner vs loser, Ukraine is kicking ass.

The only acceptable concession Zelenskyy could have made for Putin to not invade would be to give Putin complete control and be his puppet. Kind of like Trumputin is doing.
....................
Ukraine would have negotiated with strong backing of NATO-US
led by Biden.The threat of more sanctions to Russia back then was very
real. Putin would have been a fool not to compromise to some
degree over his demand of concessions from Zelensky. Remember
Zelensky wasn't much of a puppet to Putin before 2022. Even if a
peace deal agreed on in early 2022 was to cost him politically back
home it would only mean Z would lose to someone more anti-Putin
in an election without bringing on a war.

All the loss of human lives and territories suffered
by Ukraine to this day benefits no one but the military
industries and those who got to pocket some of the
aid money. Russia has paid a heavy price in winning
only on the battlefield. But at least it will be rewarded
with annexation of a good portion of Ukraine.
 

nottyboi

Well-known member
May 14, 2008
24,064
2,378
113
Ukraine would have negotiated with strong backing of NATO-US
led by Biden.The threat of more sanctions to Russia back then was very
real. Putin would have been a fool not to compromise to some
degree over his demand of concessions from Zelensky. Remember
Zelensky wasn't much of a puppet to Putin before 2022. Even if a
peace deal agreed on in early 2022 was to cost him politically back
home it would only mean Z would lose to someone more anti-Putin
in an election without bringing on a war.

All the loss of human lives and territories suffered
by Ukraine to this day benefits no one but the military
industries and those who got to pocket some of the
aid money. Russia has paid a heavy price in winning
only on the battlefield. But at least it will be rewarded
with annexation of a good portion of Ukraine.
In the longer run Russia will be able to impose conditions on Ukraine and will thus incur a much lower cost of defending the eastern border. It will be able to pivot those resources to the Finnish border where Finland has decided it wants to be a threat to Russia after decades of peaceful neutrality. There will definitely be consequences for the Finns. It was a very stupid move.
 
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