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Trump/Zelensky deal turns into Jerry Springer episode

mandrill

monkey
Aug 23, 2001
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I have strongly disagreed with Munich 1938 comparisons. The Ukraine defended their government and their sovereignty. Russia has paid a terrible price. Now's the time for a ceasefire.
You want facts. A ceasefire was not the negotiation at Munich in 1938.

Here is an objective exercise on what constitutes "appeasement" for everyone. We all know there are three possible outcomes. The Russians pack up and leave the Ukraine one way or another. Ukraine collapses. Or lastly, a negotiated ceasefire leaves Russia with Ukrainian territory. If this war is fought for another two-three years and the stalemate continues, would negotiating a ceasefire still be considered "appeasement" then?

(There's no right answer.)
But here's what you are ignoring: Russia has taken significant military damage and can no longer fight effectively. Yet, it will still be rewarded with Ukrainian territory in the sort of deal the GOP wants to impose.

What is to stop Russia rebuilding its army and simply attacking again in 2 or 3 years and taking another chunk of Ukrainian territory and then demanding another concessionary cease fire????.... Zelensky and all the European nations are saying that's exactly what will happen.

And what Trump says is: "Or maybe a bomb could fall on my head tomorrow" and "Fight, fight, fight. That's all you want to do."

But every serious commentator on the Ukraine war with any military analysis creds is saying exactly what Z is saying.

Again, you write stuff off the top of your head to support Trump, but you have no real insight into this area. While that is marginally better than Mitch's drivel, it doesn't add up to a viable discussion on your part.

The solution is is to make Russia disgorge what it has seized and then agree to sanctions if it invades again. But Trump and the GOP take Russian dick up their ass and won't take that position to force an end to the war.

That's why Europe is about to humiliate Trump's ass and essentially kick the US out of NATO.
 
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mandrill

monkey
Aug 23, 2001
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I'm sure it ruffles The Presidents feathers that he's not wearing a proper suit as well however he gives him a pass because Musk is there doing volunteer work out of love for America. Also Donald Trump, the man, is full of empathy. He realizes that despite Elon being a genius he's a bit of a retard as well.
What gives Trump the right to impose a dress code on the head of state of another country???....... Zelensky is his equal.

It's this bullshit delusion that Trump and Putin are the esteemed heads of their respective national corporation-countries and Zelensky is an insolent little junior office boy asking for a promotion. That's how Trump perceives the situation. But no other Western head of state behaves or thinks in that way. That's because they're normal functioning people and Trump's an asshole and a moron.

The British went out of their way to show hospitality to Z when he showed up dressed in his T-shirt yesterday. It's just their subtle Brit way of telling Trump to go suck a dead horse.

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preme89

New member
Feb 26, 2022
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Not really, Hamas kidnapped people. Putin knows his time is running out on unifying the soviet union.

The problem is this is not America's position, it's Trump's position.

For some crazy reason some think a crooked real estate developer is an expert on Russian relations.
I think we're getting into the debate about whether the chicken or egg came first regarding Hamas's actions.

My point was, America has been supporting Ukraine because its in their interest to do so. Similarly, America is supporting Israel because its in their interest to do so. Beyond America's interest, there is no real logical explanation as to why Russia is in the wrong but Israel is not. From what I can see, both Russia and Israel are aggressors, both are engaged in a protracted war over land, and both have a massive military edge over their opponents.
 

northofsixty

Member
Jun 23, 2017
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Trying to stay in a Happy Place
Repeat: There are mature human beings on Terb that believe this is a real photo, not just someone as clueless and surperior as you Captain Obvious.
TauCeti - just curious who has stated that they believe the photos I posted as a response to mitch's totally unsubstantiated claims that Putin is afraid as Trump are real photos??
 

Granite Top

Active member
Feb 17, 2025
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What gives Trump the right to impose a dress code on the head of state of another country???....... Zelensky is his equal.

It's this bullshit delusion that Trump and Putin are the esteemed heads of their respective national corporation-countries and Zelensky is an insolent little junior office boy asking for a promotion. That's how Trump perceives the situation. But no other Western head of state behaves or thinks in that way. That's because they're normal functioning people and Trump's an asshole and a moron.

The British went out of their way to show hospitality to Z when he showed up dressed in his T-shirt yesterday. It's just their subtle Brit way of telling Trump to go suck a dead horse.

View attachment 413335
Trump isn't imposing some new dress code. It's proper etiquette for all leaders of other nations to show respect when visiting other leaders at their highest official government buildings dressed properly- not like they're shopping at Walmart.
 
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kherg007

Well-known member
May 3, 2014
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No offense, I have been reading this same exact post for two years now. I think there is this perverse almost homicidal determination to want to encourage the Ukrainians to keep fighting without a clear end in sight.
Defending your country is perverse? Defending it from invaders is perverse?
I cannot fathom why any man would think that way if their country was invaded. The Russians are thugs, they rape and murder and pillage (they did that in the occupied zones) so why would you let them take over your own country?
The Ukrainians need no encouragement to fight. They only want the tools and supplies to defend themselves.

I'd like the talk to be around Putin ceasing operations. Pulling back. Then going to the Ukrainians and getting them to agree to shut it down. But the Russians did not honor their previous guarantee. They have been committing war crimes. Putin has been labeled a war criminal. Zelenskyy knows, like any military leader knows who has dealt with the Russians knows, a cease fire without something that hard and fast guarantees no further hostilities is simply allowing Putin to re-arm to gear up for another offensive. Think of the 800,000 Russian lives sacrificed too. Many of those recruits lied to as well.

There is a clear end goal. Get the fuck out of my country. Stop the rocket attacks on my civilians, hospitals, schools, and power grid. Russian 100% controls this war. If Ukraine stops, it ceases to exist as a sovereign country. Thus I 100% understand why the Ukrainians fight.

Having the US president parrot Kremlin talking points is a disgrace.
Now...I'm not naive enough to think Ukraine won't have to give something up. I think we all agree on that.
Completely pushing the Russians out likely won't happen either. But until the Russians stop this won't end. And without some guarantee like an EU army in a DMZ or something like that, Zelenskyy knows Putin will not honor any agreement to stop fighting. He'll stop for a bit, like a month, rearm, the fake some incident about Ukrainians murdering some russian grandmother then use that as a pretext to continue the assault. Remember they tried that before the invasion but US intelligence reported their ruse about 24 hours before they tried it so the world knew it was bs.

For now it seems the "deal" on the table is "give us half your mineral wealth and trust Putin."
Zelenskyy's counter is: "OK on the minerals as long as you give me something ironclad that does not rely upon trusting Putin."
 

mitchell76

Well-known member
Aug 10, 2010
25,354
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Defending your country is perverse? Defending it from invaders is perverse?
I cannot fathom why any man would think that way if their country was invaded. The Russians are thugs, they rape and murder and pillage (they did that in the occupied zones) so why would you let them take over your own country?
The Ukrainians need no encouragement to fight. They only want the tools and supplies to defend themselves.

I'd like the talk to be around Putin ceasing operations. Pulling back. Then going to the Ukrainians and getting them to agree to shut it down. But the Russians did not honor their previous guarantee. They have been committing war crimes. Putin has been labeled a war criminal. Zelenskyy knows, like any military leader knows who has dealt with the Russians knows, a cease fire without something that hard and fast guarantees no further hostilities is simply allowing Putin to re-arm to gear up for another offensive. Think of the 800,000 Russian lives sacrificed too. Many of those recruits lied to as well.

There is a clear end goal. Get the fuck out of my country. Stop the rocket attacks on my civilians, hospitals, schools, and power grid. Russian 100% controls this war. If Ukraine stops, it ceases to exist as a sovereign country. Thus I 100% understand why the Ukrainians fight.

Having the US president parrot Kremlin talking points is a disgrace.
Now...I'm not naive enough to think Ukraine won't have to give something up. I think we all agree on that.
Completely pushing the Russians out likely won't happen either. But until the Russians stop this won't end. And without some guarantee like an EU army in a DMZ or something like that, Zelenskyy knows Putin will not honor any agreement to stop fighting. He'll stop for a bit, like a month, rearm, the fake some incident about Ukrainians murdering some russian grandmother then use that as a pretext to continue the assault. Remember they tried that before the invasion but US intelligence reported their ruse about 24 hours before they tried it so the world knew it was bs.

For now it seems the "deal" on the table is "give us half your mineral wealth and trust Putin."
Zelenskyy's counter is: "OK on the minerals as long as you give me something ironclad that does not rely upon trusting Putin."
Putin will honor any agreement that is made, because Putin "is afraid of Trump."
 
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