Dept of Government Effficiency ( DOGE)

[WyattEarp]

Latest is that BRICS Nations account for 55% of the World's population and 45% of the GDP. This is set to expand due to the ridiculous tariffs imposed by the USA on all the Nations.
For a group of economies and populations of such scale to effectively be compelled to decouple from trading with the US will have substantial implications for the US dollar hegemony.
The US itself will need to adjust from loss of markets and loss of supplies. Like BRICS nations, the adjustment is likely to be variable across the complex US economic system. It is reasonable to assume that the US will also adjust for many standard items within 3-5 years, but for some categories of upstream inputs, capital equipment and even some finished goods, it could take up to a decade to find alternatives. Some of this adjustment will simply see Chinese firms expand into non-tariff impacted countries, while the US will also be driven to increase imports from Germany, Republic of Korea and Japan for capital equipment, machinery and electronics. In the first nine months of 2024, China's foreign trade with other BRICS countries reached $648 billion. Core inflation in the US could be impacted by 3-6%. The poorest in the US community will be hardest hit. Retirees and fixed income earners will also be hit by rising healthcare, drugs and utilities costs. Income inequality will worsen. Those promised that the American Dream will be restored are likely to be disappointed, again.
Not sure how your question is framed as it seems to be a riddle. Bilateral trade between India and China touched an all-time high of US$135.98 billion in 2022, while New Delhi’s trade deficit with Beijing crossed the US$100 billion mark for the first time. Despite frosty political relations, bilateral trade is currently steady. The main products that China exported are computers, smart phones, and semiconductors, while India exported iron ore, refined petroleum, and raw aluminium.
The only losers from these Trump Tariff-Freaks will be The USA when it relates to The BRICS Nations!!

I would expect the BRICs to significantly trade with each other. China still needs a lot of natural resources. Your India-China bilateral trade example is a good, somewhat healthy trade relationship. However, one would presume India doesn't want to only provide natural resources and will want to move up the value chain. That's when the trade competition and tension comes to the forefront.

The first major issue with all this BRICs fanfare (which you continually ignore) is who will absorb China's massive trade surplus that persists with the U.S? It's the biggest issue in any discussion of global trade. It is also key to the question of replacing dollar hegemony.

The second major issue is the U.S. cannot afford to run enormous deficits year after year with China which is essentially an adversary. Germany and other chronic trade surplus countries are also creating imbalances and strain.This is both an economic and strategic issue. Cheap goods are just not a good enough argument for the U.S. and global stability in the long-run. The status quo is unsustainable.

Now I suspect with all your very specific data included in your post, it's very likely you rearranged some things you cut and pasted from an article or two. The problem as I always have told you is that journalists aren't economists and they usually aren't strong with financial principles. However, they do want to write political commentary.

Like you can comprehend "economics" based on your very partisan POV!!

Really Beav, did you just figure out I am partisan? Do you realize the shit you read about economics is thinly-veiled opposition to Trump the political entity? Don't you think some of what you read is indirectly sponsored by industry groups and political groups that have special interests?
For myself, I understood all the policies that Trump has made his agenda long, long before Trump came along. So why would I throw them out simply because Trump's not a terribly amicable politician.

No one is saying that there will instantaneous benefits to the U.S. It's been acknowledged that it would be a five year adjustment period. One of the more subtle messages the Trump Administration is sending out is that manufacturers who send manufacturing abroad can't expect the U.S. govt. to be their strong ally in dealing with unfair and intrusive foreign governments. That seems fair doesn't it. You take the risk, you accept the risk.

 

[kherg007]

I wouldn't get too excited. If Trump/Musk cut too much or cut critical things, there's no reason Congress can't reinstate them.

You just have to realize we had massive budget blow-outs the last five years. It's time for the Federal govt. to be squeezed for awhile.

Some of the business people here will understand when I say the U.S. govt. agencies have never been subject to zero-based budgeting. Certainly the last five years, they have mostly been given increases on top of the previous year's spending and so on year after year.

I think Canadians have to understand that if the Conservatives take over, this is coming to Ottawa. Does any non-progressive on these pages believe the Trudeau Administration was a good steward of the Canadian govt. budget?

Hate the player (Trump) but don't hate the game (controlling big government).

I don't disagree with downsizing. I disagree with how you do it. Twitter produces nothing, just a communication way station so hacking out sections might be ok there. But when youve got projects, things being shipped and contracts and things being processed it is simply destructive.
In fact, I posted elsewhere that Clinton cut 377,000 government employees, but did it smart and worked through congress to do so. That's the analogue of eating right reducing calories and exercising. The musk method of weight loss is chopping off limbs, which often results in the death of the body. It also demoralizes your employees. Thus your not gaining any efficiency. Chaos is not efficient.

 

[WyattEarp]

I don't disagree with downsizing. I disagree with how you do it. Twitter produces nothing, just a communication way station so hacking out sections might be ok there. But when youve got projects, things being shipped and contracts and things being processed it is simply destructive.
In fact, I posted elsewhere that Clinton cut 377,000 government employees, but did it smart and worked through congress to do so. That's the analogue of eating right reducing calories and exercising. The musk method of weight loss is chopping off limbs, which often results in the death of the body. It also demoralizes your employees. Thus your not gaining any efficiency. Chaos is not efficient.

I could give you a half dozen reasons why Clinton-Gore 1993 is not the same as 2025. First and foremost, U.S. government has had an insatiable appetite for spending the last few years. Public debt as a % of GDP was around 60%. Now it's around 120%.

Additionally, Clinton-Gore were self-declared moderates who had the support of the Republican Congress in government rationalization. If the Democrats take control of the House in two years, it's likely the progressive House Dems will lead a fight to prevent any substantive spending rationalization. It's the nature of American progressives. So in reality, time and of course the debt bomb is more the enemy here.

Please answer these questions honestly if you will. Have you ever voted for the Liberals or NDP since 2015? Do you recognize the damage the Liberal/NDP alliance has done to the Canadian economy? I think it helps us to understand how members view the world.

 

[kherg007]

I could give you a half dozen reasons why Clinton-Gore 1993 is not the same as 2025. First and foremost, U.S. government has had an insatiable appetite for spending the last few years. Public debt as a % of GDP was around 60%. Now it's around 120%.

Additionally, Clinton-Gore were self-declared moderates who had the support of the Republican Congress in government rationalization. If the Democrats take control of the House in two years, it's likely the progressive House Dems will lead a fight to prevent any substantive spending rationalization. It's the nature of American progressives. So in reality, time and of course the debt bomb is more the enemy here.

Please answer these questions honestly if you will. Have you ever voted for the Liberals or NDP since 2015? Do you recognize the damage the Liberal/NDP alliance has done to the Canadian economy? I think it helps us to understand how members view the world.

None of this dismisses the point. If anything, the presidency and congress all of one party should make this a shit ton easier to get stuff done properly. (Btw the debt ratio was 126% when trump left office after 2020. In 2023 it was 122%.)

The point was there is a way to do this that does not spite human beings and makes government actually more efficient. Musk could have done what Gore did. Then they could have brought it to a friendly congress who would have gone with it.
If you just blow up stuff you leave behind chaos and confusion which is not efficient, but destructive. But that's the point.

Having an incompetent government, according to Michael Lewis, is "the 5th risk" to the survival of a country (that's the title of his book too. I highly recommend you read it. You're one of the smarter blokes here so i think there is a chance you might ).
Most Americans have no idea what their government does so they have no qualms about believing whatever Elon says. But Lewis gives example of how American agriculture is dependent on all sorts of government reports. Blowing it up screws your farmers. The department of energy manages the nukes. Elon fucked that up royally because he and his minions did not know that and they put the country at huge risk. They had to walk that back.

Oh ps not canadian so no opinion there.
The only two parties I've ever been a member of (independent now) were slight right of centre parties. Back in Oz it was the Liberal party (they were the slight right of centre party, VS Labour, who were slight left of centre).
I was a republican in the GHWBush mould but once the religious kooks etc got involved I was out.

 

[WyattEarp]

None of this dismisses the point. If anything, the presidency and congress all of one party should make this a shit ton easier to get stuff done properly. (Btw the debt ratio was 126% when trump left office after 2020. In 2023 it was 122%.)

We all know that COVID blew out the budgets of most every Western government in 2020. That's like a fun fact that you offered. Everyone except maybe hardcore progressives understand the budget needs to be right-sized. And for those who like expanded govt. spending, there was always the opportunity for the Biden Administration to raise taxes after the COVID crisis to cover expanded spending. There's a reason they didn't.

The point was there is a way to do this that does not spite human beings and makes government actually more efficient. Musk could have done what Gore did. Then they could have brought it to a friendly congress who would have gone with it.
If you just blow up stuff you leave behind chaos and confusion which is not efficient, but destructive. But that's the point.

Trump and Musk are making political points about the size and efficacy of our government. If the Republicans in Congress have a problem with what they are doing, I'm sure we will hear about it sooner than later. Again, there is NO consensus between the parties on rationalizing spending. I'm hoping that DOGE gets to the Pentagon soon because that's where you might see Progressives shut up and some Republicans squawk.

Having an incompetent government, according to Michael Lewis, is "the 5th risk" to the survival of a country (that's the title of his book too. I highly recommend you read it. You're one of the smarter blokes here so i think there is a chance you might ).
Most Americans have no idea what their government does so they have no qualms about believing whatever Elon says. But Lewis gives example of how American agriculture is dependent on all sorts of government reports. Blowing it up screws your farmers. The department of energy manages the nukes. Elon fucked that up royally because he and his minions did not know that and they put the country at huge risk. They had to walk that back.

Perhaps the Department of Energy is a good example, but it's more of a public relations fuck-up. Raising the Dept. of Agriculture is not the best example in my opinion. Big Ag's lobbying effort is behind the Dept. of Agriculture. One can say it is what it is, but it's not a department designed for the best interests of the country. It's designed to assuage the farm lobby because its electoral power is concentrated in rural states and districts. That's why we burn a food derivative in our gas tanks and we put fruit corn syrup in so many processed foods.

As far as Michael Lewis, you do realize he's offering an opinion. I've enjoyed some of his books. Some more than others. This book was a political treatise. Michael Lewis is also not an expert on government and government efficiency. I don't think he has any management experience.

On the other hand, Musk oversees a collection of enterprises not just X. I don't like much of Musk from the public persona I can see. However, I can't first hand quantify his abilities as a manager.

 

[WyattEarp]

I found the words of this moderate Democratic Congressmen Jared Golden of Maine interesting.

“I don’t think that it’s been very effective, the Dem response, so far. In fact, I’m frustrated by it. If you make everything DEFCON 5, then eventually nothing is DEFCON 5, you know what I mean? And on questions of overreach of constitutional authority, it’s not always so cut and dry,” Golden said during an interview with The Washington Post published Friday morning.

 

[kherg007]

We all know that COVID blew out the budgets of most every Western government in 2020. That's like a fun fact that you offered. Everyone except maybe hardcore progressives understand the budget needs to be right-sized. And for those who like expanded govt. spending, there was always the opportunity for the Biden Administration to raise taxes after the COVID crisis to cover expanded spending. There's a reason they didn't.



Trump and Musk are making political points about the size and efficacy of our government. If the Republicans in Congress have a problem with what they are doing, I'm sure we will hear about it sooner than later. Again, there is NO consensus between the parties on rationalizing spending. I'm hoping that DOGE gets to the Pentagon soon because that's where you might see Progressives shut up and some Republicans squawk.



Perhaps the Department of Energy is a good example, but it's more of a public relations fuck-up. Raising the Dept. of Agriculture is not the best example in my opinion. Big Ag's lobbying effort is behind the Dept. of Agriculture. One can say it is what it is, but it's not a department designed for the best interests of the country. It's designed to assuage the farm lobby because its electoral power is concentrated in rural states and districts. That's why we burn a food derivative in our gas tanks and we put fruit corn syrup in so many processed foods.

As far as Michael Lewis, you do realize he's offering an opinion. I've enjoyed some of his books. Some more than others. This book was a political treatise. Michael Lewis is also not an expert on government and government efficiency. I don't think he has any management experience.

On the other hand, Musk oversees a collection of enterprises not just X. I don't like much of Musk from the public persona I can see. However, I can't first hand quantify his abilities as a manager.

First, Biden could not raise taxes given the govt. He was in fact bringing down the deficit slowly. He too had to spend a lot early. That's the point here. It was trending down, and ideally get under 100% of gdp, according to various influential economists. Of course lower is better.

Second every interview suggests republican are scared shitless of Musk threatening to primary them, and also afraid of the constant MAGA physical violence threats (Romney et al describe how much they have to pay for security when you cross Trump). Right now those dickless wonders are hoping the democrats get their shit together, or the public protests, to do their work for them. They're simply afraid. Even the noise they made when research hospitals were getting cut they quieted down fast. Thus I hold no faith in them. My opinion based on their shameful track record.

And DOE was not just a PR fuck up but could have caused serious security issues.

Lewis - He interviews people who describe what they do. Farmers rely on it to know when to plant and info on likely insect issues and diseases and fungi and water supply including toxin monitoring etc etc. But Lewis is not just "offering opinion". He's reporting the opinions of experts. Yes, opinions, but people who know this day in and day out and better than you and i. Ive worked with usa govt folks and they are usually fantastic who really put out for their country. I agree there is a lot of stuff to unwind like big ag's control of the food pyramid and subsidizing corn and not fresh veg etc. But you keep making my point. You need to do an independent hard study and make recommendations to streamline and make effective. Lopping off things you don't understand based on one line you read in a grant is profoundly stupid. It's performative, not reformative.

Btw, if you think about it, Trump is doing to the country what he did for his business, showing that contracts mean nothing, and he's capricious and vengeful and the rule of law is an inconvenience. This was why no one worked with Trump as a businessman, as you knew he'd screw you. Only Deutsche bank, which was busy laundering money, would touch him. America is becoming that way as a country - it does not honor contracts or agreements, capricious, subject to bribery and flattery.

 

[Frankfooter]

I could give you a half dozen reasons why Clinton-Gore 1993 is not the same as 2025. First and foremost, U.S. government has had an insatiable appetite for spending the last few years. Public debt as a % of GDP was around 60%. Now it's around 120%.

Additionally, Clinton-Gore were self-declared moderates who had the support of the Republican Congress in government rationalization. If the Democrats take control of the House in two years, it's likely the progressive House Dems will lead a fight to prevent any substantive spending rationalization. It's the nature of American progressives. So in reality, time and of course the debt bomb is more the enemy here.

Please answer these questions honestly if you will. Have you ever voted for the Liberals or NDP since 2015? Do you recognize the damage the Liberal/NDP alliance has done to the Canadian economy? I think it helps us to understand how members view the world.

These service cuts come as ways to justify cutting taxes for the rich. When republicans cut taxes they also cut services, which is why every government since Reagan has added to the debt.

Its not services that are the problem.

 

[Addict2sex]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1891717630483911162

 

[PeterParker1000]

Elon and Trump will discuss a potential DOGE dividend given to US tax payers from the savings from DOGE. This is great!

It might get some of the poor liberals on his side. I might donate my portion to a MAGA family in need. Win win.

 

[Addict2sex]

Its amazing that musk doesn't understand basic coding.

If there is no age entered in the database there is a default birthday of 1875 in the programming.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1890844276994552132

Lets assume is old cobol programming that default due no age entered the database which you mention maybe correct. But it still don’t explain that there more SSN # then the population of American .

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1891470376149848196

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1891357918605332965

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1891539894771548419

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1891874517552648262

Futhermore..It don’t explain 0-9 year old collecting social security benefits ( example collecting old age benefits) by the way.
Can you tell me why 39,000,000 children between 0-9 are receiving Social Security( old age benefits) ?

 

[Addict2sex]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1891350795452654076

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1891354011233890334

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1891508153365270558

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1891897795356852305

Once someone realized how the outdated tech / outdated software system or outdated programming language like COBOL could be manipulated for nefarious purposes corruption became easy.
That what likely happened to the SSN in the social security database !! That explain all those extra SSN# that most likely given illegal migrants for them to collect social security benefits or money funnel from social security benefits to some governments dark slush funds.

 

[Addict2sex]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1872666028485853579

 

[Addict2sex]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1891895227067269464

 

[Frankfooter]

Elon and Trump will discuss a potential DOGE dividend given to US tax payers from the savings from DOGE. This is great!

It might get some of the poor liberals on his side. I might donate my portion to a MAGA family in need. Win win.

MAGA are such easy marks.

 

[Addict2sex]

MAGA are such easy marks.

Democrat are crooks!

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1891106999351321087

 

[Addict2sex]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1891593446634176965

 

[kherg007]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1891593446634176965

Not all of them. Look at the qualifications- Only those adjudicated as a human rights/refugee thing or people who have risked their lives to help US government (or fleeing certain despotic regimes).
For the record.
Carry on.

 

[WyattEarp]

Lewis - He interviews people who describe what they do. Farmers rely on it to know when to plant and info on likely insect issues and diseases and fungi and water supply including toxin monitoring etc etc. But Lewis is not just "offering opinion". He's reporting the opinions of experts. Yes, opinions, but people who know this day in and day out and better than you and i. Ive worked with usa govt folks and they are usually fantastic who really put out for their country. I agree there is a lot of stuff to unwind like big ag's control of the food pyramid and subsidizing corn and not fresh veg etc. But you keep making my point. You need to do an independent hard study and make recommendations to streamline and make effective. Lopping off things you don't understand based on one line you read in a grant is profoundly stupid. It's performative, not reformative.

I guess you can say having read several of Michael Lewis' books that I am a fan. I generally enjoy his books. However, I would stop short of calling him an expert on:

Silicon Valley
Baseball Management
Tennessee Football Moms
Heuristics
Cryptocurrency (The New York Times wrote of Lewis's extensive access to Bankman-Fried that he had "a front-row seat—from which he could apparently see nothing.")

Getting the picture.

Last, but not least, I would not consider him an expert on government efficiency simply because he spoke with some government employees to write a book. From what I have heard, the book has a strong political overtone and did not investigate the other side of government effectiveness. Then there's his lack of management experience.

 

[kherg007]

I guess you can say having read several of Michael Lewis' books that I am a fan. I generally enjoy his books. However, I would stop short of calling him an expert on:

Silicon Valley
Baseball Management
Tennessee Football Moms
Heuristics
Cryptocurrency (The New York Times wrote of Lewis's extensive access to Bankman-Fried that he had "a front-row seat—from which he could apparently see nothing.")

Getting the picture.

Last, but not least, I would not consider him an expert on government efficiency simply because he spoke with some government employees to write a book. From what I have heard, the book has a strong political overtone and did not investigate the other side of government effectiveness. Then there's his lack of management experience.

He doesn't have to be an expert. Malcolm Gladwell is not an expert at anything but he knows how to translate things into more readily understandable form. However, Gladwell often goes too far on sharpening and leveling and gets it wrong at times.
Lewis does similar things, although he had worked on wall street thus knows how financial shit works from the inside. One of the things he reports are numbers of rural folks who think the government is bloated etc but are shocked to find out a lot of the stuff they depend on comes from government programs. Just like those people carrying signs that say "keep your government hands off my medicare!!"
The vast majority of Americans don't know what is going on inside of government because government can't advertise. The info is there, BTW, but nobody is taking the the time to find out and read their web pages etc. Thus the government is handicapped in that it cannot advertise about all the great stuff it is doing. It can only educate on a specific program to instruct people what to do but those releases have to be approved. Those who hate it can spend unlimited time and money trashing it however.
And who is the government? Americans. Who funds their work? The congress. When musk says he's defeating bureaucracy to allow democracy, he's got it exactly wrong. Congress made and funded the programs and agencies. They were elected by citizens to do so (democracy). Musk (unelected) is unilaterally taking the power he does not have and overriding what the people, through their elected representatives, created. That doesn't seem like democracy to me.

I've already said multiple times there is a way to do this that does preserve democracy and I'm all in on that. Clinton-Gore did it. But that takes effort and brains. This is simply destroying things then lying about it. It's stupid beyond fathom, unless you simply wish to destroy it forever and then this makes sense.