Ford passed the legislation for ripping up the bike lanes TODAY!!

nottyboi

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May 14, 2008
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And along with the minimal use they get in winter, they can't be justified. But, seeing as you can't paint and remove paint or remove barriers and replace barriers a couple of times each year, if we're going to keep them it has to be for 12 months.
Well I guess we should close all the other season shit in Canada, like hockey rinks, close all the summer facilities because winter is coming. Ban farming after all its only half a year eh! Seasonality is a curse and a blessing. Its part iof Canada so we need to accept it and embrace it. 👍
 
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shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
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Ford did not feel the need to inform himself of any data nor evidence in determination that he was/is making the right decision
And you know this for a fact, how? You KNOW that he had no data to reference or if he did, he ignored it?

I do not like him at all, but I think that the bike lanes are a pain in the ass and I am asking you if you can verify this claim. Surely there must be traffic volume and time data somewhere and the premier would undoubtedly have access to them. We need to know how many kms of bike lanes were added, how how long they've been in place, if traffic improved with the bike lanes and how much it improved or got worse. Do you not agree that that would be valuable info to have to see if bike lanes have had a positive or negative effect on Toronto traffic?
 

shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
52,775
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Well I guess we should close all the other season shit in Canada, like hockey rinks, close all the summer facilities because winter is coming. Ban farming after all its only half a year eh! Seasonality is a curse and a blessing. Its part iof Canada so we need to accept it and embrace it. 👍
What insight. And thanks for your suggestion.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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Bike culture in Europe is not the same as here. It's an invalid comparison. People here will not bike through the cold and most of Europe is not as cold as Toronto.
False, the weather is not that different.

It's been proven in Toronto? In which cities in N. America in which snow is a common event has it been proven?
Its been proven that cities that maintain bike paths through winter see them used through winter.
 
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nottyboi

Well-known member
May 14, 2008
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I don't think that that is the central issue of this conversation. Instead of asking hypotheticals, we have actual results that can be analyzed. Installing the bike lanes was/is an experiment. What has been the result of this experiment over how long a time?

Since the bike lanes were put in, has traffic in Toronto improved? How many kms of bike lanes have been installed?

This is what is the central issue is and what we should be discussing. Do bike lanes work in Toronto?
How many more cars are there in Toronto. I know you probably see bikers as people that can't afford cars but I have 2 cars and use my ebike lots to go across town when possible. The biggest obstacle is actually theft. Even in winter when the roads are clear I take my escooter to go on short trips
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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You continually post the same photos of traffic on major highways. I explained why a large percentage of the population drive in this expansive area known as the GTA. Because it's typically faster than cycling or taking public transit.
Downtown, biking is consistently faster than transit or driving.
If you biked, you'd know.
 

Anbarandy

Bitter House****
Apr 27, 2006
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And you know this for a fact, how? You KNOW that he had no data to reference or if he did, he ignored it?

I do not like him at all, but I think that the bike lanes are a pain in the ass and I am asking you if you can verify this claim. Surely there must be traffic volume and time data somewhere and the premier would undoubtedly have access to them. We need to know how many kms of bike lanes were added, how how long they've been in place, if traffic improved with the bike lanes and how much it improved or got worse. Do you not agree that that would be valuable info to have to see if bike lanes have had a positive or negative effect on Toronto traffic?
1) Yes, I know this as being factual.
2) I know this because I am very well informed by facts and evidence.
3) Yes, I know he had no data to reference except decade old data before bike lanes were being expanded under John Tory, the Conservative Tory.
4) Yes, I know he loudly cited this decade old data while suppressing new, up-to-date, jointly researched Provincial/Municipal derived data when peddling his bike lane removal sideshow instead of actually addressing the root causes of motor vehicle caused traffic congestion and gridlock.
5) Data is available to be found, but you are missing the point, you are looking in the wrong direction.

This is what you and others fail to grasp:

1) You and they ONLY view this issue as a motor vehicle issue, as a motor vehicle traffic issue as if somehow there is way to go back to the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s in terms traffic volume and movement when car was king.
2) A city should not only be just a bunch of infrastructure in servitude of the car. A city's success should not only be defined by how they bow on bended knee to the glory of the car. A city is its people, its communities, its neighborhoods, its culture and everything else that is in service to it. A city is about livability and not about a bunch of infrastructure in servitude of cars.
3) Imagine if the Spadina Expressway and the Scarbrough Expressway were actually built. Neighborhoods and communities would have been carved up. Livability would have deteriorated. Toronto would not be the Toronto of today.
4) Bike lanes are part and parcel of the livability and movement of the people of the city alongside pedestrian, vehicular and transit AND a component of calmer and safer streets.
5) I mean what is the point of moving motor vehicles faster when these motor vehicles are causing such carnage on our streets.

Why in the world would you believe much of anything Doug says?

Afterall, he is proven fraud:

1) Tells his developer friends that he will open up the Greenbelt and then when caught promises he won't open the Greenbelt. After that opens up the Greenbelt to developer buddies and when caught red-faced and red-handed again, promises he won't.
2) Tries to peddle that providing an almost taxpayer funded 100-year lease, a taxpayer funded $500 million parking garage and an additional taxpayer funded $1.7billion to private corporations for Ontario Place as a great deal for taxpayers.
3) Tries to hoodwink the taxpayers that spending over $1.2billion of their money to create a 1/3rd sized Ontario Science Center at Ontario Place instead of spending $450 to refurbish and renovate the existing, full sized, iconic and beloved OSC is a great bargain.
4) Cynically wasting $3.4billion for an unlegislated for, unwanted, unneeded and unwarranted 17-month early election employing the laughable justification that his idol Trump is forcing him to seek a new majority mother of all mandates instead of just doing his f*ck job on his existing 17-month majority mandate.

Why would you believe anything he says?
 
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Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
93,755
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And you know this for a fact, how? You KNOW that he had no data to reference or if he did, he ignored it?

I do not like him at all, but I think that the bike lanes are a pain in the ass and I am asking you if you can verify this claim. Surely there must be traffic volume and time data somewhere and the premier would undoubtedly have access to them. We need to know how many kms of bike lanes were added, how how long they've been in place, if traffic improved with the bike lanes and how much it improved or got worse. Do you not agree that that would be valuable info to have to see if bike lanes have had a positive or negative effect on Toronto traffic?
Here's an easy test.

Drive east - west across downtown twice
1) Dundas
2) College

One has bike lanes and one doesn't.
Tell me which is faster.
 

shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
52,775
11,040
113
Toronto
How many more cars are there in Toronto. I know you probably see bikers as people that can't afford cars but I have 2 cars and use my ebike lots to go across town when possible. The biggest obstacle is actually theft. Even in winter when the roads are clear I take my escooter to go on short trips
I see. How many kms of bike lanes have been added and has traffic improved or not?

There are traffic studies. What do they say?
 

shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
52,775
11,040
113
Toronto
Downtown, biking is consistently faster than transit or driving.
If you biked, you'd know.
Thank you for your valuable non-anecdotal facts backed up by data.

Example: Yonge and Bloor to the Pacific Mall at Kennedy Rd. and Steeles Ave. E.

Cycling: 1 hr 38 mins
Transit: 1 hr 7 mins
Driving: 26 mins

Now if you're going from Dufferin TTC station to Warden TTC station, obviously the subway is going to be faster. Let's see by how much.

Cycling: 1 hr 1 min
Transit: 31 mins
Driving: 36 mins

So yes, transit at this time of the day will save you a whole 5 minutes. And that's along a direct subway line. Now, if you have to travel any additional distance to/from the subway stations, driving is going to be way faster.

And you still don't understand why so many people choose to drive?
 

shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
52,775
11,040
113
Toronto
1) Yes, I know this as being factual.
2) I know this because I am very well informed by facts and evidence.
3) Yes, I know he had no data to reference except decade old data before bike lane were being expanded under John Tory, the Conservative Tory.
4) Yes, I know he loudly cited this decade old data while suppressing new, up-to-date, jointly researched Provincial/Municipal derived data when pumping his bike lane removal sideshow to actually addressing the root causes of motor vehicle caused traffic congestion and gridlock.
5) Data is available to be found, but you are missing the point, you are looking in the wrong direction.
So you are saying that you have no concrete evidence that he did not check data.

This is what you and others fail to grasp:

1) You and they ONLY view this issue as a motor vehicle issue, as a motor vehicle traffic issue as if somehow there is way to go back to the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s in terms traffic volume and movement when car was king.
2) A city should not only be just a bunch of infrastructure in service of the car. A city's success should not only be defined by how they are in service of the car. A city is its people, its communities, its neighborhoods, its culture and everything else that is in service to it. A city is about livability and not about a bunch of infrastructure in service of cars.
3) Imagine if the Spadina Expressway and the Scarbrough Expressway were actually built. Neighborhoods and communities would have been carved up. Livability would have deteriorated. Toronto would be the Toronto of today.
4) Bike lanes are part and parcel of the livability and movement of the people of the city alongside pedestrian, vehicular and transit AND a component of calmer and safer streets.
5) I mean what is the point of moving motor vehicles faster when these motor vehicles are causing such carnage on our streets.
Thank you for your city planning lesson. I want to know if, since the introduction of bike lanes has travel times improved or not for all modes of transport, not just cars.

Why in the world would you believe much of anything Doug says?
I don't. That's why I'd like to know what the introduction of bike lanes has done for people who have to travel around the city using all forms of transport. You are typing a lot yet you have not once been able to address the bottom line. Have people been able to get around the city faster or slower since the introduction of bike lanes.

, he is proven fraud:

1) Tells his developer friends that he will open up the Greenbelt and then when caught promises he won't open the Greenbelt. After that opens up the Greenbelt to developer buddies and when red-faced and red-handed again, promises he won't.
2) Tries to peddle that providing an almost a taxpayer funded 100-year lease, a taxpayer fund $500 million parking garage and an additional taxpayer funded $1.7billion to private corporations for Ontario as a great deal for tapayers.
3) Tries to hoodwink the taxpayers that spending over $1.2billion of their money to create a 1/3rd sized Ontario Science Center at Ontario Place instead of spending $450 to refurbish and renovate the existing, full sized, iconic and beloved OSC is a great bargain.
4) Cynically wasting $3.4billion for an unlegislated for, unwanted, unneeded and unwarranted 17-month early election employing the laughable justification that his idol Trump is forcing him to seek a new majority mother of all mandates instead of just doing his f*ck job on his existing 17-month majority mandate.

Why would you believe anything he says?
Get your eyes checked. You keep missing each time I've stated that I don't like him. Preach to a different choir.
 

shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
52,775
11,040
113
Toronto
Here's an easy test.

Drive east - west across downtown twice
1) Dundas
2) College

One has bike lanes and one doesn't.
Tell me which is faster.
So driving on 2 streets twice tells me how the whole city is doing in terms of travel.

Do it starting at midnight and then every two hours because traffic varies over the course of a day?
I shouldn't bother about north/south routes?
When it's snowing?
When it's raining?
When it's -10 degrees?
When it's 16 degrees?
When it's 30 degrees?
And there are many other variables that can impact travel times. Your suggestion is dumb.

I've got a better idea. There are traffic studies that have been done. Let's look at those.
 
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Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
93,755
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So you are saying that you have no concrete evidence that he did not check data.

Thank you for your city planning lesson. I want to know if, since the introduction of bike lanes has travel times improved or not for all modes of transport, not just cars.

I don't. That's why I'd like to know what the introduction of bike lanes has done for people who have to travel around the city using all forms of transport. You are typing a lot yet you have not once been able to address the bottom line. Have people been able to get around the city faster or slower since the introduction of bike lanes.


Get your eyes checked. You keep missing each time I've stated that I don't like him. Preach to a different choir.
There are tonnes of studies you could check if you hadn't already made up your mind.
Drivers care about speed, other people care about safety.


If you cared about moving the most people on limited roads, biking wins.

If you talked to Toronto businesses they'll tell you bike lanes are good for business.
 
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