American Airlines Plane and Black Hawk collide mid air. Large number dead.

[Butler1000]

I'll go out in a limb and say that perhaps conducting military proficiency training flights near a busy civilian airport is a bad freakin idea to begin with.

I won't. Because in the event of an emergency, especially at the Capitol, pilots need to be trained to deal with things under these conditions.

 

[SchlongConery]

Retired Army pilot who flew same route as fatal DC crash describes his experience | Watch

THIS!

This guy has BTDT and had a very similar experience.

Seems like the Army pilot either didn't see the R Jet because he mistook some other lights for the R Jet or he didn't see it out of the night vision goggles field of view.

Stiil, if the helicopter pilot had not climbed out of his airspace altitude limit of 200' ... no harm - no foul. But it only takes a moment to become distracted to pull up a bit.

 

[nottyboi]

Excellent overview with some haunting details.

 

[Zoot Allures]

THIS!

This guy has BTDT and had a very similar experience.

Seems like the Army pilot either didn't see the R Jet because he mistook some other lights for the R Jet or he didn't see it out of the night vision goggles field of view.

Stiil, if the helicopter pilot had not climbed out of his airspace altitude limit of 200' ... no harm - no foul. But it only takes a moment to become distracted to pull up a bit.

Also, was the pilot of the hawk in the left or right seat ? as that gives different perspectives

Reminds me of the two space shuttle disasters

In both cases the danger was forseen by someone at the bottom but that safety info was not acted on because of poor comunication to the top or prioritizing politics above safety

We may have solved it but wait for the
MAYDAY airplane crash investigation show in a couple of years to see if they agree

 

[Frankfooter]

From what I know about the airspace in the DCA Control Zone, this was almost an inevitable collision.

The Army helo's are operating wayyyyyy too close to civilian airliners at such a critical flight segment of landing.

The helo's are required to remain at or below 200' AGL and "see and avoid" traffic that is or is not pointed out to the Army crew. Two things...one is that it is pretty hard to identify an aircraft at night with all those lights being so close to the ground when you are also close to the ground. Second is that it only takes a few seconds to stop paying attention and bust that 200' altitude restriction and drift up a couple hundred feet. And this collision occured at 400' AGL. So the Army helicopter was completely at fault.

And yes, the airliner would have a Traffic Collision Avoidance System. But, Resolution Advisories (instructions on whether to climb or descend) are inhibited on approach (and below 1,000' AGL). I don't know about the Army Helo tho... In any case, both the airliner and helo were aware of each other as they had been advised by the Tower Controller of each other. In fact, the helo had been instructed to pass behind the airliner. Obviously they helo didn't do so. Why the helo pilot and crew failed to see (?) and avoid the airliner is the Million Dollar question. My gut feeling speculation is that it was simply human factors.

The news reports say that normally there are two air traffic controllers, one handling jets and the other handling helicopters but due to staffing shortages one person was doing both jobs. The helicopter pilot may have gone the wrong way but how likely is it that the single air traffic controller let them get too close in the first place?

An air traffic controller was given the job of two people after one worker clocked off early on the evening the American Airlines jet and U.S. military helicopter collided in Washington, DC, according to a report.

Airplane and helicopter traffic is normally handled by two separate controllers until 9:30 p.m., but a supervisor allegedly merged the two jobs before the allotted changeover time, a source told The New York Times. A preliminary Federal Aviation Administration report concluded that staffing levels were “not normal” at the time.

 

[Valcazar]

You are right. They are all avoidable. However, the guy on the post says it would be even more avoidable if all had an anticollision device. I thought they had that already? Is it because it was an army helicopter?

F*%& Trump really...

I'd be very careful about putting too much faith in any online "expert" making judgments right now.
Most of these kinds of investigations take a long time and there are multiple factors to look it.
That post may be right, but I wouldn't put much stock in anything we're hearing so early.

It will take months to discover the real cause. Until then anyone doing politics over the tragedy should burn in hell! Imagine serveral members of US and Russian skating team were unboard

Exactly.

 

[Mr.Gr33k]

As of now, we still don't know anything about a female pilot who was actually flying the helicopter.

The new video footage showing the helicopter flying in a straight line for quite a bit towards the airplane with blazing headlights is not a good look.

 

[nottyboi]

I think most likely is the Helo pilot assumed the pilot was going to land on the main runway, so he manuvered to pass behind him as planned. However the pilot was then given Runway 33 which required him to turn right and circle to land on the runway, I think at night its very hard to tell a plane with a very bright landing light has altered course by 30 degrees and is now coming right at you, its also possible he felt he had already handled the situation and looked away as staring into a spotlight with NVGs is probably pretty irritating. In nay case the whole routing of that route with 150ft vertical clearance is idiotic. I don't see why the can't send the helos 1km parallel with the landing path so they get several hundred feet more vertical clearance.

 

[danmand]

From what I know about the airspace in the DCA Control Zone, this was almost an inevitable collision.

The Army helo's are operating wayyyyyy too close to civilian airliners at such a critical flight segment of landing.

The helo's are required to remain at or below 200' AGL and "see and avoid" traffic that is or is not pointed out to the Army crew. Two things...one is that it is pretty hard to identify an aircraft at night with all those lights being so close to the ground when you are also close to the ground. Second is that it only takes a few seconds to stop paying attention and bust that 200' altitude restriction and drift up a couple hundred feet. And this collision occured at 400' AGL. So the Army helicopter was completely at fault.

And yes, the airliner would have a Traffic Collision Avoidance System. But, Resolution Advisories (instructions on whether to climb or descend) are inhibited on approach (and below 1,000' AGL). I don't know about the Army Helo tho... In any case, both the airliner and helo were aware of each other as they had been advised by the Tower Controller of each other. In fact, the helo had been instructed to pass behind the airliner. Obviously they helo didn't do so. Why the helo pilot and crew failed to see (?) and avoid the airliner is the Million Dollar question. My gut feeling speculation is that it was simply human factors.

How is it that the Blackhawk was at 400ff, when the hard ceiling is 200 ft? Is there no autopilot or warnings to tell the pilot?
If it is very easy to overshoot the ceiling, the whole concept of a ceiling is suspect, i.e. the concept that helicopters can fly underneath landing paths.

 

[SchlongConery]

How is it that the Blackhawk was at 400ff, when the hard ceiling is 200 ft? Is there no autopilot or warnings to tell the pilot?
If it is very easy to overshoot the ceiling, the whole concept of a ceiling is suspect, i.e. the concept that helicopters can fly underneath landing paths.

The helo pilots would be hand flying that low and without an altitude deviation alerting system. It’s all ‘ stick and rudder’ when flying that low. Or should I say ‘ cyclic, collective and pedals’?

And yes, inadvertent altitude deviations very, very easily occur. It happens all the time, especially when you are distracted, say by looking outside for traffic. It doesn’t take muck back pressure on the stick/cyclic to drift up a couple hundred feet. It’s just carelessness or distraction. If it happens in less congested airspace then it’s not such a huge problem and ATC will usually just ask you to ‘confirm you are at 8,000 feet’, as a professional courtesy to remind you to go back to your assigned altitude. During a checkride you get failed for more than a 50’ deviation from assigned altitude.

Another human factor is the tendency to subconsciously ease back/up when you are distracted from the instrument panel when you are flying so close to the ground as your primary concern is terrain avoidance.

I agree that this 200’ high corridor is a high consequence routing. Although these DC helicopter routes have been active for decades without incident, this accident is evidence that aviation, like the sea, can be brutally unforgiving of the slightest inattention.

From what I’ve read in professional pilots fora, the military flies in this airspace with big swinging dicks and are seemingly not subject to accountability for airspace violations. I imagine this attitude is going to get adjusted right quick!

(My comments are speculative and just intended for general conversation. I respect the investigation process, the skilled civil and military airmen , Controllers, yhe victims and their friends and family)

 

[Twister]

Yup. When you are hammered, you want to nail everything.

They're crazy and obsessed. Its like they have something to prove. Mods made it clear they don't want politics in the lounge.

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

 

[Zoot Allures]

Reagan airport contollers are understaffed! WTF! How can that be?







A source told The Times that such a move is routine especially with regional jets, and that the decision might have been made to prevent clogging on the main runway. Five current and former controllers also told the outlet that the lone controller in the tower should have been more proactive in directing the two away from each other. The darkness could have played a part in what made it so difficult for both pilots to actually gauge their distance apart, they added. Reagan National has been understaffed for many years, with just 19 fully certified controllers as of September 2023 - well below the target of 30 - according to the most recent Air Traffic Controller Workforce Plan submitted to Congress . The situation appeared to have improved since then, as a source told CNN the Reagan National control tower was 85 percent staffed with 24 of 28 positions filled.

 

[danmand]

The helo pilots would be hand flying that low and without an altitude deviation alerting system. It’s all ‘ stick and rudder’ when flying that low. Or should I say ‘ cyclic, collective and pedals’?

And yes, inadvertent altitude deviations very, very easily occur. It happens all the time, especially when you are distracted, say by looking outside for traffic. It doesn’t take muck back pressure on the stick/cyclic to drift up a couple hundred feet. It’s just carelessness or distraction. If it happens in less congested airspace then it’s not such a huge problem and ATC will usually just ask you to ‘confirm you are at 8,000 feet’, as a professional courtesy to remind you to go back to your assigned altitude. During a checkride you get failed for more than a 50’ deviation from assigned altitude.

Another human factor is the tendency to subconsciously ease back/up when you are distracted from the instrument panel when you are flying so close to the ground as your primary concern is terrain avoidance.

I agree that this 200’ high corridor is a high consequence routing. Although these DC helicopter routes have been active for decades without incident, this accident is evidence that aviation, like the sea, can be brutally unforgiving of the slightest inattention.

From what I’ve read in professional pilots fora, the military flies in this airspace with big swinging dicks and are seemingly not subject to accountability for airspace violations. I imagine this attitude is going to get adjusted right quick!

(My comments are speculative and just intended for general conversation. I respect the investigation process, the skilled civil and military airmen , Controllers, yhe victims and their friends and family)

Thank you.

 

[underground]

Now they say that the passenger jet's Black Box has water damage...... How is this even possible ?

 

[Indiana]

Trump Claims God Spared Him In Airplane Crash

WASHINGTON—Saying it was only by divine intervention that he was still standing, President Donald Trump stated during a press briefing Thursday that God had spared his life during last night’s midair collision of an Army helicopter and a passenger jet over the Potomac River. “Without the...

theonion.com

 

[Mr.Gr33k]

Captain Rebecca Lobach identified as third Black Hawk pilot who died

The U.S. Army has identified the second pilot of the H-60 Black Hawk Helicopter that collided with an American Airline CRJ-700 passenger jet on Wednesday as it was on approach to land in D.C.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Lobach's service extended beyond the military – she was a certified victim advocate with SHARP, the Army's Sexual Harassment/Assault Response and Prevention program, and a Biden's White House military social aide.

 

[squeezer]

As of now, we still don't know anything about a female pilot who was actually flying the helicopter.

The new video footage showing the helicopter flying in a straight line for quite a bit towards the airplane with blazing headlights is not a good look.

View attachment 402350

Captain Rebecca Lobach identified as third Black Hawk pilot who died

The U.S. Army has identified the second pilot of the H-60 Black Hawk Helicopter that collided with an American Airline CRJ-700 passenger jet on Wednesday as it was on approach to land in D.C.

www.dailymail.co.uk

OMG, there was a woman among two white dudes. She must have been the cause, for sure. LOL

 

[SchlongConery]

Now they say that the passenger jet's Black Box has water damage...... How is this even possible ?

Duh!! It’s BLACK!

A DEI hire! Black Boxes Matter!!

Everyone knows Blacks can’t swim so why Biden installed them in helicopters and airplanes is easily attributable to his 79 year old WOKE ass!

EDIT: I just checked and BLACK Boxes were part of the Obama administration! Figures

AND wtf is with this murderous BLACK Hawk doing in a good ole white boys army anyways? More woke nonsense!

Oh, and while Trump and his Intelligencia is at it, I damn sure hope he has notified the Navy to stop using ‘she’ and ‘her’ to refer to ships! No fucking pronouns allowed!

 

[mitchell76]

The helos have a separate frequency than regular traffic at DCA but I don't think a separate Tower Controller. But even if there was a separate Tower Controller for helo traffic and their responsibility was being taken by the 'regular' Tower Controller, it's a moot point. The Tower Controller advised the helo pilot of the Regional Jet's presence, the Helo pilot acknowledged visual identification of the jet a minute before the collision and closer to the point of impact, the Tower Controller instructed the helo to pass behind the RJ. So the Tower Controller did his job. But one thing I'm a bit baffled by is why the Tower Controller didn't call out the Army helo for being above his 200' altitude limit. The helo would have to have a Mode C altitude reporting transponder and the altitude of both aircraftr should have triggered a loss of separation in the Air Traffic Control radar computer.

And to all those Trumptards crying DEI... I'm a cunning linguist and BOTH the Tower Controller AND the helo pilot sure sound mighty WHITE to me.. and both sound like men. And Donnie already kicked all the trans people out of the military so.... You chumps believe whatever Trump is whining about to be true. Talk about sheeple!

You talk a good game, but how do we really know you have any experience with flying?? This is an anonymous escort review board, after all. For all we know your real job could be as a cashier at your local 7-11----LMAO