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"Iran cannot have nukes" Trump warns

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basketcase

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Valcazar said:
You are assuming years of there being a deal in place would result in the same state now that Trump created having torn up the deal.
I think there is very little reason to make that assumption.
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Based on Iran's political activity in the last decade including before Trump withdrew, there is absolutely zero reason to believe Iran would be willing to keep their massive centrifuge capacity mothballed and zero indication that they were willing to explain to the IAEA about the undeclared sites where nuclear material was discovered.

I find it expected that talking heads on news channels and rando tweets to be extremely superficial in their analysis of international relations and instead boil everything down to what the US does but Iran's geopolitical aims have been consistent since 1979. There are things to blame the US, UK, etc. for but it is naive to ignore Iran's choices and actions.
 
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basketcase

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PeterParker1000 said:
Iran has threatened US allies such as Israel and Saudi Arabia

Primary sponsor of Hezbollah. Backed Hamas. Both who want destruction of the US and have caused major instability in the region
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Not to mention Iraqi militias and the Houthis. Like most powers, nations want to exert influence on the countries around them. The US and China primarily do that through economic pressures but Iran, like Russia, is still embracing the Soviet era view that the only way to gain influence is with guns.
 
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basketcase

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Shaquille Oatmeal said:
Exactly.
You keep threatening a country ...
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And despite zero evidence of anyone threatening to destroy Iran, this bullshit continues.

But maybe I'm wrong and you're explaining why you think the US and Israel are entitled to act against Iran's nuclear program because Iran is openly threatening both (and directly acting against Israel).
 
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basketcase

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Shaquille Oatmeal said:
It isn't Iran that first meddled in American business. It was the other way around.
And regime changes create bigger problems as we saw with the near 20 year occupation of Iraq.
And the US and Israel have done much more.
Assassinated Iran's scientists.
Bombed them.
Killed their generals.
Cyber attacked them.
Of course this will motivate them to develop nukes and missiles. Why wouldn't it?
Stop being a national security threat for other countries, and they will stop being a national security threat for you.
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Um, were you aware that the targets in each of those attacks was Iran's nuclear program which was for much of that time sanctioned by the UN?

And if by bombing, you are talking the last year, maybe you have an issue understanding temporal mechanics.
 
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basketcase

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nottyboi said:
Iran is pretty much at NK levels of isolation
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Wow. You're surprised that two countries with extremely suspicious nuclear programs are treated similarly? At least NK was (eventually) honest about what they were doing.

As I said before, I don't know if Iran wants nukes but it wants it's political opponents to think they could have them at any moment. That's why the UN sanctioned them in 2006.
 
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basketcase

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Frankfooter said:
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Why won't you accept Palestine's right to exist?
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It's funny to see a guy who denies Israel's right to exist is complaining about something Palestine's right to exist.

But rights come with responsibilities and the right of self determination requires one to accept others have the same rights, which you, hamas, and pij reject when it comes to Jews.
 
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basketcase

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nottyboi said:
With no regard to the people already living there. They have their own state, why does it have to expand. Why do they need to kill others, demolish their homes and burn their farms?
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The reality is in addition to the million Ottoman Jews in 1918, the Jewish immigrants legally moved to Ottoman palestine and legally bought land there. The war that happened was in a large part based on Arab leaders using jews as an excuse to build their own power base (while many of them were profiting from selling that land to Jews).
 
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basketcase

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nottyboi said:
They did not turn down the land they turned down tghe agreement. Israel expelled arabs and passed laws to seize their land.
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I think you need to stop lying.

The Arab and Palestinian leaders rejected any kind of Partition and declared war. Even Arab historians that Groggy/flubadub/frank quoted(can't remember which one he was at the time) admitted that very few Arabs were actually expelled and most left long before any Israeli fighters were in their towns. At the same time, there were a great number of Arab Jews chased from their long time homes simply because some other Jews in a different country were in a war.

In every ethno-nationalist conflict in the 20th century, the idea of two way population transfers was accepted as a necessary evil. The only difference here is that Arab leaders felt it served their purposes to keep Palestinian refugees in camps for generation while at the same time, Israel went through significant economic hardship to integrate the 800,000 Arab jews forced from their homes.

p.s. Jordan and Egypt stole the Palestinian state in 1949.
 
Shaquille Oatmeal

Shaquille Oatmeal

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basketcase said:
And despite zero evidence of anyone threatening to destroy Iran....
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The US and Israel are legitimate national security threats for Iran as they have attacked Iran in multiple ways.
Iran for its part is also a national security threat chiefly for Israel.
So if the US and Israel are entitled to act against its nuclear program, then Iran is very much entitled to develop nukes to ensure their survival.
I wouldn't use the phrase "zero evidence" in this case and risk appearing foolish.
 
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basketcase

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Shaquille Oatmeal

Shaquille Oatmeal

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basketcase said:
Um, were you aware that the targets in each of those attacks was Iran's nuclear program which was for much of that time sanctioned by the UN?

And if by bombing, you are talking the last year, maybe you have an issue understanding temporal mechanics.
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The US was meddling in Iran way before the revolution and since after the revolution they have been openly hostile to them.
Used Iraq as a proxy in the 80s to invade.
And everything else hence.
This isn't a recent conflict.
 
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basketcase

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Shaquille Oatmeal said:
The US and Israel are legitimate national security threats for Iran as they have attacked Iran in multiple ways.
Iran for its part is also a national security threat chiefly for Israel.
So if the US and Israel are entitled to act against its nuclear program, then Iran is very much entitled to develop nukes to ensure their survival.
I wouldn't use the phrase "zero evidence" in this case and risk appearing foolish.
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Again, try looking at cause and effect. No attacks on Iran are to destroy Iran. Every attack on Iran has been because of Iran's actions including their nuclear program.

Iran sees the US as a threat to its regional ambitions, not its existence and Iran uses the threat of its nuclear program and its funding of terrorist proxies as part of its ambitions.

Iran, through its proxies, has acted against US forces in numerous conflicts, the largest being Lebanon and Iraq so it makes sense that the US retaliates against IRGC Quds force (like Soleimani ) who are the ones doing the coordination.
Iran has promised Israel's destruction and has back the talk with actions through funding Hezbollah, Hamas, PIJ, and other groups actively fighting against Israel's existence.

I can never tell if people who make excuses for countries like Iran are anti-western, anti-Israel, or just plain old racist elitists who feel that Iranians aren't capable of being blamed for their actions.
 
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basketcase

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Shaquille Oatmeal said:
The US was meddling in Iran way before the revolution and since after the revolution they have been openly hostile to them.
Used Iraq as a proxy in the 80s to invade.
And everything else hence.
This isn't a recent conflict.
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Wow. Again, pretending that Arabs/Persians have no say in the matter.

And I see you've moved the goalposts from "destroying Iran" to "meddling"
 
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basketcase

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Frankfooter said:
Go ahead and prove my accusations are wrong by answering these questions.
1) Does the country of Palestine have the same rights to exist as a country as Israel?
2) Do Palestinians have the same basic human rights as zionists, including the right to self defence?

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Hmm. You deny Israel's right to exist and say they have no right to defend themselves while claiming Palestinians do have the right to exist and have the right to defend themselves by attacks on civilians and war crime rockets.
 
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