Should Canada have a Referendum on becoming part of USA?

[WyattEarp]

You can't have a referendum until you negotiate the terms. Canada would lose everything.... pensions, healthcare, sanity, safety.

You've lost your mind so why would all this matter. It's just silly chatter. No need to get into all this nitty, gritty.

They have a 7 dollar minimum wage! We would be only 1 state?

Well, we really don't have a $7 minimum wage. Individual states essentially mandate their minimum wage. Based on the exchange rate, many U.S. states have a higher minimum wage than Ontario. Some States are much higher.

(I'll just make a quick point. Many of the open immigration advocates are also for higher and higher minimum wages. So many times you have to make hard choices that conflict with your core beliefs.)

One thing I've noticed is that Canadians on political forums cling to this idea that any differences in the U.S. are inherently bad and ignore how things work in practice. People are starving. People are dying for lack of healthcare. Able students can't get a college education. Many things are hyperbole encouraged by some of our own media.

Canada would be one state? Wig, individual provinces are going to be folded into U.S. border states.

How about 10? After 200 years of peace and co-operation, we're gonna blindly follow the madman Trump into the abyss? I don't think so.

If you're getting into the nitty, gritty like this is a real possibility, what makes anyone think this could all come together within four years?

 

[Dutch Oven]

I meant I would vote no to even having a referendum.

Would you vote no to holding a referendum under ANY circumstances, or just based on the current circumstances where a fairly low percentage of citizens would be intererested?

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

Would you vote no to holding a referendum under ANY circumstances, or just based on the current circumstances where a fairly low percentage of citizens would be intererested?

Under any circumstances that would undermine Canada's sovereignty and independence.

 

[Dutch Oven]

Under any circumstances that would undermine Canada's sovereignty and independence.

That's not an answer. Would you oppose a referendum being held if the vast majority of Canadians favoured becoming a US state?

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

That's not an answer. Would you oppose a referendum being held if the vast majority of Canadians favoured becoming a US state?

I would, yes.
That is the meaning of under any circumstances.

 

[Dutch Oven]

I would, yes.
That is the meaning of under any circumstances.

Thanks for the clarity. It boils down to that you don't respect our democratic processes if you don't like the potential results.

However, you can't expect a voice in preserving our Canadian democracy if you don't believe in the democracy part.

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

......preserving our Canadian democracy......

And we wouldn't preserve Canadian democracy if we undermine Canadian sovereignty.
I mentioned earlier in one of my responses that my position on this is a little authoritarian but am okay with authoritarianism when it comes to matters of statehood.
There are internal forces that are always trying to tear a country (any country) apart due to ideological reasons.
Those forces have to be handled in an authoritarian manner to maintain the integrity of the state.
It is how I believe any country would handle it today if something like that were to happen.

 

[Dutch Oven]

I mentioned earlier in one of my responses that my position on this is a little authoritarian but am okay with authoritarianism when it comes to matters of statehood.

So said every historical totalitarian tyrant.

Here in the west we don`t take advice on democracy from tyrants.

 

[JeanGary Diablo]

Thanks for the clarity. It boils down to that you don't respect our democratic processes if you don't like the potential results.

However, you can't expect a voice in preserving our Canadian democracy if you don't believe in the democracy part.

Look, if you want to be a filthy Yank, then go live in the US. Nothing is stopping you.

 

[Dutch Oven]

Look, if you want to be a filthy Yank, then go live in the US. Nothing is stopping you.

If all of your fellow citizens wanted to join Canada, why wouldn`t you respect their wishes, if you really believe in democracy?

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

So said every historical totalitarian tyrant.

Here in the west we don`t take advice on democracy from tyrants.

I am completely okay with being considered a tyrant for not wanting my country taken over by a foreign state.
It is treasonous to support hostile statements by leader of a foreign state towards Canada.
Your best option here is to relocate to the States.

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

If all of your fellow citizens wanted to join Canada, why wouldn`t you respect their wishes, if you really believe in democracy?

They don't.
So that is a hypothetical and is a moot point.

 

[JeanGary Diablo]

If all of your fellow citizens wanted to join Canada, why wouldn`t you respect their wishes, if you really believe in democracyÉ

I'm not all that hung up on "democracy". It's as flawed as any system. One of my favourite things about Canada is that we are a Monarchy and have a King, which is totally undemocratic and I love it. Keeps us a wee bit European and keeps our institutions tied to Europe, as opposed to that rotting cesspool of sewage below the 49th parallel.

 

[Dutch Oven]

I am completely okay with being considered a tyrant for not wanting my country taken over by a foreign state.
It is treasonous to support hostile statements by leader of a foreign state towards Canada.
Your best option here is to relocate to the States.

Why would I leave Canada? If Canadians decided to join the US I would respect that decision. It wouldn't trouble me that some tyrants think otherwise. It wouldn't even be worth listening to such people, given their fundamental disdain for democracy.

 

[Dutch Oven]

They don't.
So that is a hypothetical and is a moot point.

Your disdain for democracy is not hypothetical.

 

[Dutch Oven]

I'm not all that hung up on "democracy". It's as flawed as any system. One of my favourite things about Canada is that we are a Monarchy and have a King, which is totally undemocratic and I love it. Keeps us a wee bit European and keeps our institutions tied to Europe, as opposed to that rotting cesspool of sewage below the 49th parallel.

Your civics need a slight tune up. Canada is a CONSTITUTIONAL MONARCHY AND A PARLIAMENTARY DEMOCRACY. This is not the same as being a Monarchy.

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

Why would I leave Canada? If Canadians decided to join the US I would respect that decision. It wouldn't trouble me that some tyrants think otherwise. It wouldn't even be worth listening to such people, given their fundamental disdain for democracy.

Those Canadians who want to join the US are welcome to relocate to the US and renounce their Canadian citizenship.
The rest of us Canadians have a responsibility to protect our country from both external and internal threats.
So use of force to quell movements that threaten Canada's security and sovereignty is completely justified and it is how Canada would do this today.

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

Your disdain for democracy is not hypothetical.

Democracy exists within the boundaries of statehood.
No state, no democracy.
Therefore statehood comes first.
You musing that the majority of Canadians support any form of integration with the US is a hypothetical.

 

[JeanGary Diablo]

Your civics need a slight tune up. Canada is a CONSTITITIONAL MONARCHY AND A PARLIAMENTARY DEMOCRACY. This is not the same as being a Monarchy.

You are correct, but our head of state is not elected, nor should they be.

Long Live the King.

 

[Dutch Oven]

Those Canadians who want to join the US are welcome to relocate to the US and renounce their Canadian citizenship.
The rest of us Canadians have a responsibility to protect our country from both external and internal threats.
So use of force to quell movements that threaten Canada's security and sovereignty is completely justified and it is how Canada would do this today.

Ridiculous. If the majority want to join the US, you expect them all to leave a country that is founded on implementing the democratic will of the people through representative government?

Your talk of using force to impose the will of the minority is as unacceptable as it gets in a poltical discussion.