At least 62 killed in plane crash at South Korea airport

[DesRicardo]

If you're flying on a Boeing plane, say a prayer before you onboard.

South Korea plane crash: At least 47 dead at Muan airport

The aircraft came off the runway and crashed into a wall at Muan Airport in the south west of the country.

www.bbc.com

x.com

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[xix]

Why is there a wall at the end of the runway?

The pilot should have gone in the other direction or hit the grass area.

I just saw the video and saw the wall / road, still it was a small wall.

 

[unassuming]

Why is there a wall at the end of the runway?

The pilot should have gone in the other direction or hit the grass area.

I just saw the video and saw the wall / road, still it was a small wall.

Pilot probably had no choice but to land in the opposite direction that the runway was used for, that is planes take off from where the wall is.

 

[bazokajoe]

Why is there a wall at the end of the runway?

The pilot should have gone in the other direction or hit the grass area.

I just saw the video and saw the wall / road, still it was a small wall.

Why is there a wall at the end of the runway?

The pilot should have gone in the other direction or hit the grass area.

I just saw the video and saw the wall / road, still it was a small wall.

A lot of runways have a wall at the end of the runway, especially if it's close to road ways. It's to deflect jet blast when taking off.

 

[xix]

This guy is good.

 

[DesRicardo]

Another Boeing

KLM Royal Dutch Airlines Boeing 737-800 experiences hydraulic failure, skids off runway in Norway

In the evening of Saturday, 28 December, a KLM Royal Dutch Airlines Boeing 737-800 (registered PH-BXM) operated flight KL1204 from Oslo, Norway to

www.aviation24.be

 

[SchlongConery]

Pure speculation but…

Sometimes pilots get fixated on a problem and forget to lower the landing gear. Gear uup landings in small piston aircraft are not uncommon.

In this case, it seems like the aircraft may have experienced a bird strike in the right engine that may have taken out one of the hydraulic systems. However, the landing gear on a 737 can be dropped manually with 3 pull handles that mechanically release the uplocks, allowing the landing gear to drop out by gravity. I cannot imagine any scenario where this simple system would have not been effective.

There may have been smoke in the cockpit or maybe the pilots were just in a panic to get the bird on the ground and forgot to manually release the landing gear. But the flaps were also not lowered. Both of these are emergency checklist items. And they deployed the engine thrust reversers immediately upon touchdown.

The CVR will answer the questions of whether they did or did not follow the checklist and/or tried to lower the gear manually.

The Tower Controller should have also likely have called out the missing landing gear unless the pilot already said they were unable to. But if that were the case, then the Emergency vehicles would have already been rolling if not already on the runway.

All of which leads me to SPECULATE that the pilots simply forgot the gear or selected the normal gear switch down and assumed the gear was down.

Another concern of mine is the runway overrun. ICAO standards call for a certain safe area, and now a soft frangible concrete overrun that slows the aircraft like those gravel runaway truck offramps in steep areas of highways.

Such a tragedy.

 

[Butler1000]

Pure speculation but…

Sometimes pilots get fixated on a problem and forget to lower the landing gear. Gear uup landings in small piston aircraft are not uncommon.

In this case, it seems like the aircraft may have experienced a bird strike in the right engine that may have taken out one of the hydraulic systems. However, the landing gear on a 737 can be dropped manually with 3 pull handles that mechanically release the uplocks, allowing the landing gear to drop out by gravity. I cannot imagine any scenario where this simple system would have not been effective.

There may have been smoke in the cockpit or maybe the pilots were just in a panic to get the bird on the ground and forgot to manually release the landing gear. But the flaps were also not lowered. Both of these are emergency checklist items. And they deployed the engine thrust reversers immediately upon touchdown.

The CVR will answer the questions of whether they did or did not follow the checklist and/or tried to lower the gear manually.

The Tower Controller should have also likely have called out the missing landing gear unless the pilot already said they were unable to. But if that were the case, then the Emergency vehicles would have already been rolling if not already on the runway.

All of which leads me to SPECULATE that the pilots simply forgot the gear or selected the normal gear switch down and assumed the gear was down.

Another concern of mine is the runway overrun. ICAO standards call for a certain safe area, and now a soft frangible concrete overrun that slows the aircraft like those gravel runaway truck offramps in steep areas of highways.

Such a tragedy.

You would think in the age of back up camaras on cars they could put cameras on various places like landing gear, wings and other important spots to help this.

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1873174704720425440

 

[SchlongConery]

You would think in the age of back up camaras on cars they could put cameras on various places like landing gear, wings and other important spots to help this.

The landing gear has indicator lights on the panel as well as an audible alarm.

There is an audible alarm too that sounds if the aircraft goes below a certain speed, altitude and/or certain configurations that could suggest the aircraft is going to land.

 

[SchlongConery]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1873174704720425440

Also looks like he was going wayyy too fast and floated down most of the runway before touching down.

Not going to jump to conclusions of poor piloting skills but the only situation I would not go around and try again is if the airplane was on fire or out of fuel.

The CVR and ATC recordings will fill in a lot of unknowns.

 

[Butler1000]

The landing gear has indicator lights on the panel as well as an audible alarm.

There is an audible alarm too that sounds if the aircraft goes below a certain speed, altitude and/or certain configurations that could suggest the aircraft is going to land.

I realize that but I wonder if cameras as part of the check would be a better solution in conjunction with this.

 

[Indiana]

Why is there a wall at the end of the runway?

The pilot should have gone in the other direction or hit the grass area.

I just saw the video and saw the wall / road, still it was a small wall.

It was an emergency situation landing.

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

Also looks like he was going wayyy too fast and floated down most of the runway before touching down.

This is what I think I read.
He was apparently half way down the runway before touching down.

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

I realize that but I wonder if cameras as part of the check would be a better solution in conjunction with this.

There are landing gear cameras on board for sure.

 

[SchlongConery]

There are landing gear cameras on board for sure.

AFAIK, there are no external cameras on 737’s. That is from someone who put a GoPro or something in the landing gear bay.

 

[Lenny59]

The antennae at the end of runways are supposed to be freestanding, not embedded on concrete walls, for the very reason of avoiding disasters like this.

 

[SchlongConery]

The antennae at the end of runways are supposed to be freestanding, not embedded on concrete walls, for the very reason of avoiding disasters like this.

Correct. That antenna array is called a "Localizer" and they are supposed to be mounted on frangible mounts like streetlights so they will snap off easily.

 

[SchlongConery]

Interesting early analysis by Juan Brown.

Most interesting to me is one of the comments, and those following that comment that resonates with me in my experience. (Bold added by me)


ORIGINAL COMMENT :

"18 year 737 Captain here. Nice analysis Juan. They rushed this approach for unknown reasons and failed to drop the gear or extend the flaps. I can’t foresee any reason for this except if you think both engines are failing. Even then, you can drop the gear quickly and electronically extend some flaps.

This accident is why I won’t fly on any airline with non-western trained pilots.

As a human factors instructor (formally known as CRM), there have been way too many avoidable crashes with Asian crews. Usually due to the FO refusing to speak up to an authoritative Captain even when they know a bad outcome is likely. In the west, we learned these lessons the hard way and started teaching CRM and empowering the FO to speak up."


FOLLOW ON COMMENTS TO THE ABOVE;



"Definitely a cultural aspect to this. When I was an instructor at Mitsubishi Aerospace, we taught promising people to build wings and center fuselage for a couple of bizjets. Students from Philippines, India, Pakistan - all had the same reaction to my asking yes/no questions of them on a one-on-one basis - they ALWAYS answered "yes." Regardless of their understanding of a process just described or demonstrated. "Did you understand?" Answer was always "yes" even when it was clear they did not grasp it yet. They were afraid of saying "no" to anyone perceived to be in authority. I had to spend some time explaining to them that it was okay, even encouraged to say "no" or admit you didn't know something. This is a nut to be cracked if you want safety in aerospace everywhere."


- "The FO not speaking is a cultural issue that caused a Korean crash several years ago."

- That was the exact issues with Asiana 214. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asiana_Airlines_Flight_214

 

[Lenny59]

Interesting early analysis by Juan Brown.

Most interesting to me is one of the comments, and those following that comment that resonates with me in my experience. (Bold added by me)


ORIGINAL COMMENT :

"18 year 737 Captain here. Nice analysis Juan. They rushed this approach for unknown reasons and failed to drop the gear or extend the flaps. I can’t foresee any reason for this except if you think both engines are failing. Even then, you can drop the gear quickly and electronically extend some flaps.

This accident is why I won’t fly on any airline with non-western trained pilots.

As a human factors instructor (formally known as CRM), there have been way too many avoidable crashes with Asian crews. Usually due to the FO refusing to speak up to an authoritative Captain even when they know a bad outcome is likely. In the west, we learned these lessons the hard way and started teaching CRM and empowering the FO to speak up."


FOLLOW ON COMMENTS TO THE ABOVE;



"Definitely a cultural aspect to this. When I was an instructor at Mitsubishi Aerospace, we taught promising people to build wings and center fuselage for a couple of bizjets. Students from Philippines, India, Pakistan - all had the same reaction to my asking yes/no questions of them on a one-on-one basis - they ALWAYS answered "yes." Regardless of their understanding of a process just described or demonstrated. "Did you understand?" Answer was always "yes" even when it was clear they did not grasp it yet. They were afraid of saying "no" to anyone perceived to be in authority. I had to spend some time explaining to them that it was okay, even encouraged to say "no" or admit you didn't know something. This is a nut to be cracked if you want safety in aerospace everywhere."


- "The FO not speaking is a cultural issue that caused a Korean crash several years ago."

- That was the exact issues with Asiana 214. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asiana_Airlines_Flight_214

Interesting take. A lot about the pilot's behavior doesn't make sense. For one thing, he was travelling extremely fast, I don't know if he could have stopped before hitting the wall even if he had proper landing gear deployed.