Daniel Penny manslaughter charge dismissed as jury breaks for weekend

[Vinson]

Sad for the guy but he was on drugs having a psychotic episode and wanted to kill everyone. I'm sure Penny wasn't out to kill him but to stop him. Hopefully they'll dismiss the other charge that Bragg brought.


Jurors on the Daniel Penny chokehold trial returned to deliberations for a fourth day Friday for just an hour before telling the court they could not come to an agreement on the top charge, manslaughter, as they weigh the fate of a 26-year-old Marine veteran and architecture student accused of killing a mentally ill homeless man who threatened to kill people on a Manhattan subway car.

Around 11 a.m., the jurors sent a note to the court stating, "We the jury request instructions from Judge [Maxwell] Wiley. At this time, we are unable to come to a unanimous vote on count 1 – manslaughter in the second degree."

The judge sent them back to deliberate more, but they told the court shortly after 3 p.m. that they still could not reach a unanimous decision.

The charge requires prosecutors to prove that Penny acted with recklessness when he grabbed Jordan Neely in a chokehold. Neely had barged onto the train while high on drugs, threatening to kill passengers during a psychotic episode, according to trial testimony.

The judge initially ruled that the jury could not deliberate on the second charge unless they found Penny not guilty of manslaughter by some reason other than that the chokehold was justified. However, after jurors said they were deadlocked a second time, Assistant Manhattan District Attorney Dafna Yoran asked to have the top charge dismissed to allow the jury to debate the lesser charge of criminally negligent homicide, which carries a maximum punishment of four years in prison.

The judge agreed and sent the jury home for the day. They will resume deliberations Monday, only on the second charge.

"Manslaughter in the second degree is dismissed," Wiley told the jurors. "What that means is you are now free to consider count two. Whether that makes any difference, I have no idea."

Wiley earlier gave the jurors "Allen charge" instructions after giving the attorneys time to review, but they still failed to reach a consensus.

Daniel Penny manslaughter charge dismissed as jury breaks for weekend

Daniel Penny jurors struggled to reach consensus on top charge, manslaughter, which carries a max sentence of 15 years in prison for the death of Jordan Neely.

www.foxnews.com

 

[mandrill]

Without knowing the NY State penal code' definition of manslaughter in various degrees and how it relates to crim neg causing death, it's impossible to unpick the technicalities.

I could have predicted the hung jury ahead of time. Some of the jury agree that Penny recklessly used excessive force - which he clearly seems to have done - and some of the jury hate the dead guy - who was a pest - and like Penny and don't want to fuck his life. Anyone could have foreseen the result.

The lower standard of crim neg homicide might be enough of a sop to the Penny fans to get a unanimous conviction. I am not sure of that. Crim negl hom is still a heavy rap with a significant jail time hit.

So let's see what happens.

 

[The Oracle]

This is a tough call.

Penny seems like a good guy who while trying to help applied that hold too long. I don't for a minute think he had intentions of malice.

I'm not sure the public interest is served by him going to jail here.

 

[farquhar]

I'm not sure the public interest is served by him going to jail here.

Criminally Negligent Homicide (the remaining charge under consideration) is a Class E Felony under New York Law with a Maximum Sentence of 4 Years in a State Penitentiary.

Is there a Minimum Sentence? Could Penny be found Guilty but simply be sentenced to House Arrest/Probation?

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

This is a tough call.

Penny seems like a good guy who while trying to help applied that hold too long. I don't for a minute think he had intentions of malice.

I'm not sure the public interest is served by him going to jail here.

I agree.
Just overdid it.
I read the punishment was for 4 years for criminal negligence.
Maybe he can get a lighter version of that sentence.

 

[The Oracle]

I agree.
Just overdid it.
I read the punishment was for 4 years for criminal negligence.
Maybe he can get a lighter version of that sentence.

Sean always gives good breakdowns...

 

[farquhar]

I agree.
Just overdid it.
I read the punishment was for 4 years for criminal negligence.
Maybe he can get a lighter version of that sentence.

If the Jury is deadlocked on the Criminal Negligence charge and the end result is a Mistrial, I have a feeling the State of New York will put Penny on trial again.

Is there any video out there depicting how Neely was behaving prior to Penny putting him in the chokehold, BTW? All the video online that I see is of the chokehold itself.

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

If the Jury is deadlocked on the Criminal Negligence charge and the end result is a Mistrial, I have a feeling the State of New York will put Penny on trial again.

Is there any video out there depicting how Neely was behaving prior to Penny putting him in the chokehold, BTW? All the video online that I see is of the chokehold itself.

I read only the last 3 minutes of the altercation, which was basically the chokehold is on film.
Do trains not have security cams inside?
From wikipedia:
Freelance journalist Juan Alberto Vázquez, who witnessed the incident, said that Neely removed his jacket and threw it violently to the floor, resulting in other passengers moving away from him. Vázquez said that he did not see Neely assault anyone. Other witnesses reported fearing death from Neely's actions, including him throwing trash at other passengers and approaching people. Penny then approached Neely from behind and put him in a chokehold. Penny maintained the hold after the train had reached its next stop, Broadway–Lafayette Street, while other passengers held the doors open to prevent it from moving. During the chokehold, some bystanders gave warnings on Neely's health, with one telling Penny, "You're gonna kill him now", while others helped in holding him down until police arrived.

 

[southpaw]

Why Bragg brought on this case in the first place, is beyond me??

Wasn't the guy he killed a Michael Jackson impersonator?

 

[The Oracle]

Here’s how Jordan Neely’s fatal subway encounter took a deadly turn with a fatal chokehold

When homeless man Jordan Neely boarded an F train in Manhattan on Monday, no one onboard could have fathomed that his lifeless body would be lying before them.

nypost.com

Rereading this and....Penny got to know that this hold is done in seconds not minutes.

I don't want to see him in jail but man that's very reckless.

 

[farquhar]

Here’s how Jordan Neely’s fatal subway encounter took a deadly turn with a fatal chokehold

When homeless man Jordan Neely boarded an F train in Manhattan on Monday, no one onboard could have fathomed that his lifeless body would be lying before them.

nypost.com

Rereading this and....Penny got to know that this hold is done in seconds not minutes.

Considering Penny is ex-Marine, and is trained to incapacitate and kill his combative opponents, one could definitely infer that.

 

[southpaw]

Penny was just trying to be a good samaritan!!

And the moral of the story is, don't. Let the fuckers die next time.

 

[farquhar]

Yes, but Penny was just trying to protect the citizens of New York (who were riding on that particular subway car), from a very scary mentally ill man, who was going crazy on the subway. Penny was just trying to be a good samaritan!!

I don't doubt that Penny was trying to be a good Samaritan; I think he let the adrenaline get the better of him and applied the chokehold for too long.

If I were on that jury, I don't think I could vote to Convict. I believe the most likely outcome of this case is a Mistrial; there will be protests in the streets; and the State of New York will feel obliged to put Penny on trial again.

 

[farquhar]

IMHO, that's the only reason why Bragg agreed to try this case in the first place, was because some "woke" people of New York, were protesting. If Penny is convicted, then no upstanding citizens will help victims in New York, who are in harms way, ever again!!

If Neely were a mentally ill homeless white man, instead of a mentally ill homeless black man, then I agree the circumstances and the attention given to this case would be much different.

It is what it is. From what I understand of Neely, he had a pretty shitty life. It's an awful situation all around.

If Penny is acquitted, there will be social unrest. If Penny is convicted, but only given house arrest, there will be social unrest as people will feel the punishment does not fit the crime. If there is a mistrial, there will be social unrest and the State of New York will have to put Penny on trial again.

 

[The Oracle]

I don't doubt that Penny was trying to be a good Samaritan; I think he let the adrenaline get the better of him and applied the chokehold for too long.

If I were on that jury, I don't think I could vote to Convict. I believe the most likely outcome of this case is a Mistrial; there will protests in the streets; and the State of New York will feel obliged to put Penny on trial again.

I think that's an accurate description..Penny got amped and didn't track how long he had it on for.

A cop once said to me '' The thing about choke holds is that sometimes they don't wake up''..So true.

They didn't protest much when Trump came to MSG for his campaign. Maybe this will be the same.

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

I think that's an accurate description..Penny got amped and didn't track how long he had it on for.

A cop once said to me '' The thing about choke holds is that sometimes they don't wake up''..So true.

He was told "You are going to kill him" by fellow passengers on the train and he did not let go for a several minutes after.
Someone should have been a little more assertive.
He is not going to be able to hear in an amped state of mind.

 

[The Oracle]

He was told "You are going to kill him" by fellow passengers on the train and he did not let go for a several minutes after.
Someone should have been a little more assertive.

Joe public just doesn't know what to do in these situations. It's not their fault.

Unless you've trained at some level you wouldn't.

As for Neely..'' Neely had an extensive criminal record, including 42 arrests on charges including petty larceny, jumping subway turnstiles, theft, and three unprovoked assaults on women in the subway between 2019 and 2021.''

Penny doesn't know any of that though but usually past actions are a good indicator of future actions.

 

[mandrill]

I agree.
Just overdid it.
I read the punishment was for 4 years for criminal negligence.
Maybe he can get a lighter version of that sentence.

The Canadian standard for crim negligence causing death is "reckless, gross negligence".

There's some leeway with a friendly jury for saying Penny was careless, but not grossly so.

But then, the cop who killed George Floyd by kneeling on his chest for several minutes probably raised the same defence. You have to draw the line somewhere. People can't just kill other humans and then say "Oops! Held on a few minutes too long, I guess!"

 

[mandrill]

Joe public just doesn't know what to do in these situations. It's not their fault.

Unless you've trained at some level you wouldn't.

As for Neely..'' Neely had an extensive criminal record, including 42 arrests on charges including petty larceny, jumping subway turnstiles, theft, and three unprovoked assaults on women in the subway between 2019 and 2021.''

Penny doesn't know any of that though but usually past actions are a good indicator of future actions.

So what?

Neely was a crazy, low life street person who was a little scary and annoying af. Doesn't mean his life has so little value that he can just be killed and thrown aside.

 

[mandrill]

IMHO, that's the only reason why Bragg agreed to try this case in the first place, was because some "woke" people of New York, were protesting. If Penny is convicted, then no upstanding citizens will help victims in New York, who are in harms way, ever again!!

Sure, they will.

They just have to be smart enough not to kill someone.