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Daniel Penny manslaughter charge dismissed as jury breaks for weekend

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farquhar

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mitchell76 said:
IMHO, that's the only reason why Bragg agreed to try this case in the first place, was because some "woke" people of New York, were protesting. If Penny is convicted, then no upstanding citizens will help victims in New York, who are in harms way, ever again!!
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If Neely were a mentally ill homeless white man, instead of a mentally ill homeless black man, then I agree the circumstances and the attention given to this case would be much different.

It is what it is. From what I understand of Neely, he had a pretty shitty life. It's an awful situation all around.

If Penny is acquitted, there will be social unrest. If Penny is convicted, but only given house arrest, there will be social unrest as people will feel the punishment does not fit the crime. If there is a mistrial, there will be social unrest and the State of New York will have to put Penny on trial again.
 
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The Oracle

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farquhar said:
I don't doubt that Penny was trying to be a good Samaritan; I think he let the adrenaline get the better of him and applied the chokehold for too long.

If I were on that jury, I don't think I could vote to Convict. I believe the most likely outcome of this case is a Mistrial; there will protests in the streets; and the State of New York will feel obliged to put Penny on trial again.
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I think that's an accurate description..Penny got amped and didn't track how long he had it on for.

A cop once said to me '' The thing about choke holds is that sometimes they don't wake up''..So true.

They didn't protest much when Trump came to MSG for his campaign. Maybe this will be the same.
 
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Shaquille Oatmeal

Shaquille Oatmeal

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The Oracle said:
I think that's an accurate description..Penny got amped and didn't track how long he had it on for.

A cop once said to me '' The thing about choke holds is that sometimes they don't wake up''..So true.
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He was told "You are going to kill him" by fellow passengers on the train and he did not let go for a several minutes after.
Someone should have been a little more assertive.
He is not going to be able to hear in an amped state of mind.
 
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The Oracle

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Shaquille Oatmeal said:
He was told "You are going to kill him" by fellow passengers on the train and he did not let go for a several minutes after.
Someone should have been a little more assertive.
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Joe public just doesn't know what to do in these situations. It's not their fault.

Unless you've trained at some level you wouldn't.

As for Neely..'' Neely had an extensive criminal record, including 42 arrests on charges including petty larceny, jumping subway turnstiles, theft, and three unprovoked assaults on women in the subway between 2019 and 2021.''

Penny doesn't know any of that though but usually past actions are a good indicator of future actions.
 
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mandrill

mandrill

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Shaquille Oatmeal said:
I agree.
Just overdid it.
I read the punishment was for 4 years for criminal negligence.
Maybe he can get a lighter version of that sentence.
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The Canadian standard for crim negligence causing death is "reckless, gross negligence".

There's some leeway with a friendly jury for saying Penny was careless, but not grossly so.

But then, the cop who killed George Floyd by kneeling on his chest for several minutes probably raised the same defence. You have to draw the line somewhere. People can't just kill other humans and then say "Oops! Held on a few minutes too long, I guess!"
 
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mandrill

mandrill

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The Oracle said:
Joe public just doesn't know what to do in these situations. It's not their fault.

Unless you've trained at some level you wouldn't.

As for Neely..'' Neely had an extensive criminal record, including 42 arrests on charges including petty larceny, jumping subway turnstiles, theft, and three unprovoked assaults on women in the subway between 2019 and 2021.''

Penny doesn't know any of that though but usually past actions are a good indicator of future actions.
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So what?

Neely was a crazy, low life street person who was a little scary and annoying af. Doesn't mean his life has so little value that he can just be killed and thrown aside.
 
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mandrill

mandrill

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mitchell76 said:
IMHO, that's the only reason why Bragg agreed to try this case in the first place, was because some "woke" people of New York, were protesting. If Penny is convicted, then no upstanding citizens will help victims in New York, who are in harms way, ever again!!
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Sure, they will.

They just have to be smart enough not to kill someone.
 
mandrill

mandrill

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farquhar said:
I don't doubt that Penny was trying to be a good Samaritan; I think he let the adrenaline get the better of him and applied the chokehold for too long.

If I were on that jury, I don't think I could vote to Convict. I believe the most likely outcome of this case is a Mistrial; there will be protests in the streets; and the State of New York will feel obliged to put Penny on trial again.
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Not necessarily.

I think there's validity in the State saying "We took it to a jury and did our job, but there's no conviction likely on these facts. So no re trial."
 
mandrill

mandrill

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Shaquille Oatmeal said:
I read only the last 3 minutes of the altercation, which was basically the chokehold is on film.
Do trains not have security cams inside?
From wikipedia:
Freelance journalist Juan Alberto Vázquez, who witnessed the incident, said that Neely removed his jacket and threw it violently to the floor, resulting in other passengers moving away from him. Vázquez said that he did not see Neely assault anyone. Other witnesses reported fearing death from Neely's actions, including him throwing trash at other passengers and approaching people. Penny then approached Neely from behind and put him in a chokehold. Penny maintained the hold after the train had reached its next stop, Broadway–Lafayette Street, while other passengers held the doors open to prevent it from moving. During the chokehold, some bystanders gave warnings on Neely's health, with one telling Penny, "You're gonna kill him now", while others helped in holding him down until police arrived.
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Crazy guy ranting and throwing trash is scary - but there's no legally reasonable fear that crazy guy is going to use deadly force in an assault of other passengers.
 
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Shaquille Oatmeal

Shaquille Oatmeal

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The Oracle said:
Joe public just doesn't know what to do in these situations. It's not their fault.

Unless you've trained at some level you wouldn't.

As for Neely..'' Neely had an extensive criminal record, including 42 arrests on charges including petty larceny, jumping subway turnstiles, theft, and three unprovoked assaults on women in the subway between 2019 and 2021.''

Penny doesn't know any of that though but usually past actions are a good indicator of future actions.
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I think people can tell.
Especially if the guy getting choked is passed out.
 
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The Oracle

The Oracle

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farquhar said:
I don't doubt that Penny was trying to be a good Samaritan; I think he let the adrenaline get the better of him and applied the chokehold for too long.

If I were on that jury, I don't think I could vote to Convict. I believe the most likely outcome of this case is a Mistrial; there will be protests in the streets; and the State of New York will feel obliged to put Penny on trial again.
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https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1865252011652059147
 
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mitchell76

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kherg007

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Fair enough jury has spoken. In emotional situations, like this, the monday morning quarterbacking is awful, usually suggesting, how calm measured behaviours should have been implemented when in fact people are fearing for their lives.
Glad it over. Time to move on.
 
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mitchell76

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kherg007 said:
Fair enough jury has spoken. In emotional situations, like this, the monday morning quarterbacking is awful, usually suggesting, how calm measured behaviours should have been implemented when in fact people are fearing for their lives.
Glad it over. Time to move on.
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The case isn't over!!
 
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