TRUMP WINS

[WyattEarp]

IIRC, Abe Lincoln slipped a half-dozen big dick jokes into the Gettysburg Address as well. Just to be "relatable to many".

Gettysburg huh? That seems very comparable.

Anyway, Lincoln and other Presidents could've used salty language in public and we likely wouldn't know. The press coverage was very different. Now they are filmed 24/7.

Anyway, I think you would agree Trump voters are not sensitive to his language nor do they feign sensitivity.

 

[WyattEarp]

Inflation, dude.

Perhaps, but I tend to believe polls that tell me what voters' concerns are. I believe Kamala voters when they say are very concerned about abortion rights across the country.

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

The U.S. doesn't currently have talent scarcity and labor shortages. There was brief time after COVID where we witnessed people delay returning to the workforce. Many of our tech companies are currently bloated from overhiring and are shedding personnel.

I can't speak to the situation in Canada. I would hesitate to speak authoritatively about another country. Your knowledge of what is going on the ground in the U.S. should be applauded.



Yes, that is exactly what we are talking about here. You're not the first person on social media who believed they knew what was best for people and the country. The campaign is over. America decided. For you, nothing was decided.

You're certainly entitled to the opinion that immigration was not a big issue for American voters. I heard otherwise. I know many Democrats (likely Harris voters) who expressed disappointment with Biden's handling of the border.

Yes the US does have shortages.
Whether you are American or Canadian, living in the country does not give you any insight into labour needs.
We use data from official sources to come to these conclusions.

Understanding America’s Labor Shortage

Workforce participation remains below pre-pandemic levels. We are missing 1.7 million Americans from the workforce compared to February of 2020.

www.uschamber.com

I did not say immigration was not a big issue for voters.
I am saying that Americans dont actually know anything about immigration.
They only form an opinion based on what politicians tell them.
The average citizen lives in a bubble.
We know the election is over and it does not impact those of us here in Canada.
But we are discussing the topic.
You seem to be saying that if you are not American we should not be talking about American issues or that we would know anything about it.

 

[mandrill]

Perhaps, but I tend to believe polls that tell me what voters' concerns are. I believe Kamala voters when they say are very concerned about abortion rights across the country.

Who answers polls?.... People who want to answer polls.

I'm sure that millions of educated, independent women are concerned about abortion rights. I believe that several states' constitutional amendments re abortion rights were passed on Tuesday. But educated, independent women are a minority segment of the electorate. Unfortunately.

 

[mandrill]

Gettysburg huh? That seems very comparable.

Anyway, Lincoln and other Presidents could've used salty language in public and we likely wouldn't know. The press coverage was very different. Now they are filmed 24/7.

Anyway, I think you would agree Trump voters are not sensitive to his language nor do they feign sensitivity.

He said it on stage at a campaign rally.

Now there are famously foul-mouthed US presidents - LBJ, RMN - but they kept to policy or morale-boosting content at rallies. And not observations about other men's dicks.

But then, you're probably going to tell us that Trump is an innovator in this area as well?

 

[WyattEarp]

Yes the US does have shortages.
Whether you are American or Canadian, living in the country does not give you any insight into labour needs.
We use data from official sources to come to these conclusions.

Understanding America’s Labor Shortage

Workforce participation remains below pre-pandemic levels. We are missing 1.7 million Americans from the workforce compared to February of 2020.

www.uschamber.com

I did not say immigration was not a big issue for voters.
I am saying that Americans dont actually know anything about immigration.
They only form an opinion based on what politicians tell them.
The average citizen lives in a bubble.
We know the election is over and it does not impact those of us here in Canada.
But we are discussing the topic.
You seem to be saying that if you are not American we should not be talking about American issues or that we would know anything about it.

I'm saying you speak too authoritatively about how Americans feel, what they know and what is happening on the ground. I think in just a few threads you were covertly saying the election didn't settle anything. Democrats would win in four years. Surely a possibility but not a certainty and certainly not an absolution of the Biden/Harris tenure.

I'm not telling you anything I haven't told a half dozen members. If you are relying on U.S. media for most of your information, you will always be at a disadvantage in trying to understand the United States.

By the way, the U.S. Chamber of Commerce has always held a deep bias that we need more workers........predominantly low paid, low-skilled workers. It's a running criticism down here. Did you notice the U.S. Chamber article only discusses net international migration in 2020/2021 when it says it was at the lowest level in decades? Not only do we know migration picked up immensely after COVID, we know very few people were migrating during COVID.

As far as the data, it's very possible that restricting illegal immigration will put pressure on wages and bring back some people to the workforce. Additionally, isn't a low unemployment rate a good thing? All of these things unemployment, wages and immigration have real world impact on each other.

 

[WyattEarp]

You seem to mix accusation of leftist dogma, with right wing dogma.
Just like there are the west coast and north east precincts that pursue DEI, there are some backward precincts in the south such as Texas, Alabama and Florida and some in the mid west such as Nebraska that will walk back DEI initiatives.
Expected behaviour.
I however dont foresee DEI ending completely.

If you think it's right wing dogma to say that DEI is not popular in the U.S., you're entitled to your opinion. I wouldn't hold on to this idea very strongly though.

I will tell you that my view is shaped from dealing with people and dealing with businesses. I used the word zeitgeist on another post here. You cannot entirely plug into the American zeitgeist by merely turning on your television and watching American news. It certainly can give you a flavor of things, but living here is far better than just getting information from intermediaries with their own views.

As I said DEI won't end completely, but it won't be a high priority for many institutions. It will be more of an ideal. For about thirty plus years, organizations have tried to hire and promote deserving minorities and women. It the last ten years, some corporations and institutions were aggressively pursuing DEI hiring/advancement which took on quota-like goals. Large institutions built up DEI bureaucracies that not only worked on these goals, they expanded DEI workforce training. This is now being rolled back in many organizations.

As one can expect, private and Blue State public universities will hold on to strong DEI priorities as long as they can stay within the law. You can add Red state governments and many non-for-profit institutions to that as well.

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

I'm saying you speak too authoritatively about how Americans feel, what they know and what is happening on the ground. I think in just a few threads you were covertly saying the election didn't settle anything. Democrats would win in four years. Surely a possibility but not a certainty and certainly not an absolution of the Biden/Harris tenure.

I'm not telling you anything I haven't told a half dozen members. If you are relying on U.S. media for most of your information, you will always be at a disadvantage in trying to understand the United States.

By the way, the U.S. Chamber of Commerce has always held a deep bias that we need more workers........predominantly low paid, low-skilled workers. It's a running criticism down here. Did you notice the U.S. Chamber article only discusses net international migration in 2020/2021 when it says it was at the lowest level in decades? Not only do we know migration picked up immensely after COVID, we know very few people were migrating during COVID.

As far as the data, it's very possible that restricting illegal immigration will put pressure on wages and bring back some people to the workforce. Additionally, isn't a low unemployment rate a good thing? All of these things unemployment, wages and immigration have real world impact on each other.

That Americans generally live in a bubble and get their news from sound bites of the politicians they support isn't a mystery.
So according to you the US media cannot be relied upon.
The US chamber of commerce is biased.
Every other authoritative source is wrong.
But Trump is correct based on nothing at all.
Yes unemployment, wages, immigration do have an impact on each other.
But what is that impact?
There is no guarantee that American citizens would want to do the jobs that illegal immigrants currently do.
You are typing a lot but saying very little.

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

If you think it's right wing dogma to say that DEI is not popular in the U.S., you're entitled to your opinion. I wouldn't hold on to this idea very strongly.

I will tell you that my view is shaped from dealing with people and dealing with businesses. I used the word zeitgeist on another post here. You cannot entirely plug into the American zeitgeist by merely turning on your television and watching American news. It certainly can give you a flavor of things, but living here is far better than just getting information from intermediaries with their own views.

Your notion that people outside the US are ill informed about the US is typical of an American who lives in a bubble.
My views are also shaped by working with Americans and even living in America for an extended period of time.
I wouldn't make blanket statements that DEI isn't popular in the US.
Or that it is very popular.
There are regions where it is popular, and there are regions where it isn't.
The politics line up accordingly.

 

[WyattEarp]

That Americans generally live in a bubble and get their news from sound bites of the politicians they support isn't a mystery.
So according to you the US media cannot be relied upon.
The US chamber of commerce is biased.
Every other authoritative source is wrong.
But Trump is correct based on nothing at all..............You are typing a lot but saying very little.

Ahhh, but I never said Trump has all the answers. Beyond the election outcome, I haven't been discussing Trump much at all.

The only thing where we might share agreement is it is very difficult to run the U.S. government and deliver on promises. Trump has his hands full. The Democrats will likely oppose him on everything. Republicans have shown to be a fractious caucus.

There's really no dispute that the U.S. Chamber of Commerce has supported higher immigration throughout the years. You should be able to think through their motivations. Certainly after I pointed it out, you could see the USCOC article manipulated immigration numbers by referencing 2020/21 immigration numbers in an article written just last month.

I'm not saying you're opinion or feelings about immigration are invalid. I am just saying I disagree and don't see overwhelming evidence that the U.S. can sustain the current level. It's not just about the economics. It's also about stress on various communities.

You think we Americans are in a bubble. You're here arguing with an American about his own country when you are certainly going to have a similar heated debate in Canada next year.

As far as relying on U.S. media, did you even watch American news the last two weeks of the election? Yeah, it was like we were watching not so subtle campaign ads nonstop on our news networks.

 

[WyattEarp]

Your notion that people outside the US are ill informed about the US is typical of an American who lives in a bubble.
My views are also shaped by working with Americans and even living in America for an extended period of time.
I wouldn't make blanket statements that DEI isn't popular in the US.
Or that it is very popular.
There are regions where it is popular, and there are regions where it isn't.
The politics line up accordingly.

I tend to defer to polling from sources that have no interests in the outcome to understand what is going on. So no offense, I don't think your view of how Americans feel tells us a whole lot. Not even the article you read or the news program you watched matters much.

DEI is broadly not popular beyond ideals. Women are generally more supportive, but feel more strongly about women's initiatives in their organization. Of course, you have to know what the questions are to understand people's responses. This gets back to sources with no obvious interest in the outcome.

There are a few members who come here and tell people what Americans think. They will routinely get upset and argue with the messenger (often me) when I say this is what we think. If someone shows me a fair poll, I am willing to consider the findings.

I'm actually a little more flexible than people here give me credit.

 

[Josephine]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1854763532241584229

I love this guy!

 

[The Oracle]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1854763532241584229

I love this guy!

Ask yourself why the Dems rigged the 2020 primaries so he wouldn't be chosen to represent the party.

Then he endorsed Joe Biden who was a corporate Democrat in apparent cognitive decline.

Bernie sold out in the end.

 

[Josephine]

Ask yourself why the Dems rigged the 2020 primaries so he wouldn't be chosen to represent the party.

Then he endorsed Joe Biden who was a corporate Democrat in apparent cognitive decline.

Bernie sold out in the end.

I am very mad about that actually. This guy should have been president.

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

.......You should be able to think through their motivations.

So invent reasons and conspiracy theories to discredit them?

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

I'm not saying you're opinion or feelings about immigration are invalid. I am just saying I disagree and don't see overwhelming evidence that the U.S. can sustain the current level. It's not just about the economics. It's also about stress on various communities.

There is nothing to sustain.
I always laugh when people use this word.
"Sustain".
Even illegal immigrants do something to feed themselves.
And what communities exactly are feeling the stress?
What kind of stress?
Where?
Dog whistles are not justifications.

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

I tend to defer to polling from sources that have no interests in the outcome to understand what is going on.

What are these sources?

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

DEI is broadly not popular beyond ideals. Women are generally more supportive.....

Blanket statement (untrue) followed by the obvious.
People of certain political beliefs support DEI. Others dont. Still others do to a certain extent.
Yes women are more concerned about women's rights. Promoting women's rights are a part of DEI initiatives.
LGBTQ people are more concerned about LGBTQ rights. Promoting LGBTQ rights are a part of DEI initiatives.
POC are more concerned with......you get the general idea.
What new point are you making?

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

There are a few members who come here and tell people what Americans think. They will routinely get upset and argue with the messenger (often me) when I say this is what we think.

So by virtue of being an American, you claim to know what Americans "think"??
If you are referring to these so called unbiased polls, please do link them.
I did not tell you what American's think.
I said Americans generally dont have a clue about immigration.
They only know talking points fed to them by their favourite politician on TV.
Ask them anything about any immigration program they wont know details.

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

Bernie sold out in the end.

He chose the lesser of the two evils.
I would have loved to see Bernie run against Trump in 2016.
I still believe he would have beat Trump.