TRUMP WINS

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

How many of the illegals that have crossed the border the past 4 years under Biden are working? I'd hazard a guess and say a minority of them. Unless its black market. Deportations of these folks should be the priority with of course those with criminal backgrounds kicked out first.
Illegal immigration has been a long standing problem crossing over multiple administrations. I wouldn't be shocked if the illegal migrant population is > 30 million. Many of them have been working for years and paying taxes. They own property and are upstanding members of their communities. But they circumvented the process. That can't be rewarded with citizenship. Its a slap in the face to every immigrant who came to the country through the legal process. Yet at the same time you just can't deport them, they are required and can't be easily replaced. Its a tough call so it doesn't surprise me that a consensus hasn't been reached.

Not as many as you would think during the Biden term.
The illegal immigrant numbers have stayed constant at 11M for over 10 years.
I dont support deporting millions of people just because they are illegal.
It is an extremely cruel thing to do.
If they are paying taxes and contributing and are upstanding members they should not be removed.
What is done is done, pardon them and give them a path to citizenship.
If they are criminals, deport them immediately.

 

[WyattEarp]

If he succeeds in deporting 11M illegals, it will cost 10s of billions to do so.
It will also have a pretty sizeable economic impact with 5% of your workforce gone.

The U.S. political rhetoric has to be tough. The border enforcement has to also be tougher than 2021-2023. Otherwise, you will motivate people to cross the border. Those of us old enough to remember know cyclical amnesty programs have only made the problem worse. Basically you get across the border and wait for another amnesty program.

That's not to say there will be mass deportations, but you can't appear to be looking the other way on those staying illegally.

On another matter, we have members who argue for higher U.S. wages but at the same time are strongly in favor of immigration from Central America. You don't have to know much about economics to see the disconnect.

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

That's not to say there will be mass deportations, but you can't appear to be looking the other way on those staying illegally.

So what shall we do about them?
Hence my comment, deport the criminals.
Give a path to citizenship for the others.
Fix your border issues so illegal immigration is reduced going forward (I dont believe it will ever be zero).

 

[WyattEarp]

Kamala Harris in her interview on Fox did not dispute that they''released'' 6 million illegals into the country.

That number is thought to be much more.

I'm not sure where Shaq is getting his numbers. He's either attempting to gaslight forum members or he himself has been gaslighted.

The most telling thing is how many Latino voters shifted to Trump. Sure the economy was a big driver, but immigration contributes to economic anxiety in Latino communities. Spanish-speaking migrants have to be housed and they have to be absorbed into the workforce. This gets back to the effect on wages particularly for low-skilled workers. (Some peculiar members here might have an idealistic view that migrants can simply become dependent on the state.)

 

[WyattEarp]

So what shall we do about them?
Hence my comment, deport the criminals.
Give a path to citizenship for the others.
Fix your border issues so illegal immigration is reduced going forward (I dont believe it will ever be zero).

You ignored part of my post. Paths to citizenship encourage illegal immigration.

If you know the U.S. will never deport you and eventually will offer you citizenship, you would be stupid to stay in Central America if you can leave your country.

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

Kamala Harris in her interview on Fox did not dispute that they''released'' 6 million illegals into the country.

That number is thought to be much more.

I posted numbers in one of these threads from the CATO institute.
@WyattEarp
The current numbers are 11M and it has stayed the same.
The exaggerated numbers of 30M which is like 10% of the population were spread by Trump during his campaign.

 

[Josephine]

Not as many as you would think during the Biden term.
The illegal immigrant numbers have stayed constant at 11M for over 10 years.
I dont support deporting millions of people just because they are illegal.
It is an extremely cruel thing to do.
If they are paying taxes and contributing and are upstanding members they should not be removed.
What is done is done, pardon them and give them a path to citizenship.
If they are criminals, deport them immediately.

Amen!

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

You ignored part of my post. Paths to citizenship encourage illegal immigration.

If you know the U.S. will never deport you and eventually will offer you citizenship, you would be stupid to stay in Central America if you can leave your country.

You cannot deport them either.
So let it be viewed as encouraging illegal immigration. Its okay.
Fix your border security, it will discourage and even out.
So the best is to give them citizenship and fix your immigration system and border security.
You will always have illegal immigration.
It is not ever going to be 0.

 

[WyattEarp]

Trump also won because Kamala ran a bad campaign and the economic situation helped him. Incumbents in almost 60 countries that voted this year have lost. The US was no different.

Absolutely correct. We could see a mild course correction in 2026 midterms. Republicans look like they will hold a small majority in the House.

As for trans rights, DEI etc, it is not federally legislated.
Trump will repeal Biden's executive order on DEI in the federal workforce and parrot it around as a huge victory.
But it will be up to the states, the corporations etc and they will do what they have always done. Pursue DEI, abortions etc.
Only immigration is in Trump's court but he will hardly be successful in deporting 11M. It will get bogged down in the courts.
It will be a half baked 4 years for Trump and then the dems will win again.
As backlash, woke will get stronger and louder.

You seem to mix in reasonable thought than follow it with leftist dogma. The U.S. is not going to be terribly woke at its core. There will be precincts on the West Coast and the liberal Northeast that might seem like its playing bigger than it is. Magnify that with the New York/D.C. media you might get the misimpression it's resonating everywhere.

Corporations and Red State public universities have been walking back DEI initiatives. In particular, when courts and governments aren't holding a DEI gun to their heads it becomes less of a priority and more of an ideal.

Interestingly, there were votes on crime in California that show Democratic voters don't always follow their elected leaders. (PS- We have been gaslighted here about U.S. crime for the last few years here. Apparently, those TERB members didn't think Californians had a different thought on the matter.)

 

[WyattEarp]

You cannot deport them either.
So let it be viewed as encouraging illegal immigration. Its okay.
Fix your border security, it will discourage and even out.
So the best is to give them citizenship and fix your immigration system and border security.
You will always have illegal immigration.
It is not ever going to be 0.

Border security also entails eliminating incentives to cross the border. When the progressive Democrats argue that we need to fix the immigration system, they are merely arguing that we need to let more people in legally. Legalize more and you will have less of an illegal immigration problem. Huh?

As you said, you will always have illegal immigration. Authorizing more legal residencies will not do anything for the problem of illegal residency.

I've had this argument with a few members here. The U.S. currently is at or near its historical high for percentage of foreign-born residents. Relative to the rest of the G-7, it's a high number.

Now Shaq, I have this crazy, crazy idea........now stay with me now. How bout we let the citizens of our country decide what they think the proper level of immigration should be and hold our governments to work towards that goal?

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

Absolutely correct. We could see a mild course correction in 2026 midterms. Republicans look like they will hold a small majority in the House.



You seem to mix reasonable thought than follow it with leftist dogma. The U.S. is not going to be terribly woke at its core. There will be precincts on the West Coast and the liberal Northeast that might seem like its playing bigger than it is. Magnify that with the New York/D.C. media you might get the misimpression it's resonating everywhere.

Corporations and Red State public universities have been walking back DEI initiatives. In particular, when courts and governments aren't holding a DEI gun to their heads it becomes less of a priority and more of an ideal.

Interestingly, there were votes on crime in California that show Democratic voters don't always follow their elected leaders. (PS- We have been gaslighted here about U.S. crime for the last few years here. Apparently, those TERB members didn't think Californians had a different thought on the matter.)

You seem to mix accusation of leftist dogma, with right wing dogma.
Just like there are the west coast and north east precincts that pursue DEI, there are some backward precincts in the south such as Texas, Alabama and Florida and some in the mid west such as Nebraska that will walk back DEI initiatives.
Expected behaviour.
I however dont foresee DEI ending completely.

 

[The Oracle]

Not as many as you would think during the Biden term.
The illegal immigrant numbers have stayed constant at 11M for over 10 years.
I dont support deporting millions of people just because they are illegal.
It is an extremely cruel thing to do.
If they are paying taxes and contributing and are upstanding members they should not be removed.
What is done is done, pardon them and give them a path to citizenship.
If they are criminals, deport them immediately.

How Biden and Trump compare on border crossings and immigration

Immigration is a top campaign issue amid questions about the pace of illegal border crossings. Here’s what the available data tells us.

www.csmonitor.com

''Bottom line: While we don’t know exactly how many unauthorized immigrants are added to the U.S. population each year, an array of different metrics signals a significant increase under Mr. Biden.''

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

Border security also entails eliminating incentives to cross the border. When the progressive Democrats argue that we need to fix the immigration system, they are merely arguing that we need to let more people in legally. Legalize more and you will have less of an illegal immigration problem. Huh?

You eliminate incentives via increasing border security and by providing more avenues to legally immigrate that benefits the nation.
You also eliminate incentives by fixing immigration processes, making them more efficient.
Essentially you disincentivize illegal immigration and incentivize legal immigration.
Your goal is to reduce illegal immigration.
Not to discourage immigration.
Don't conflate them. They are different things.
As for deportations I have already made my views clear.
Non criminals should not be. That is cruel and I will leave it there.

 

[mandrill]

The cultists witnessed in the recent US election surround Kamala Harris.

The DNC anointed beloved by legacy media queen of word salad.

What's fascinating is how someone so unqualified got over 67 million votes.

Someone that belongs as a host on The View has no business negotiating with heads of state from hostile nations.

The guy who talks about "Eating cats" and "Arnie Palmer had a big dick" is your man, huh?

Putin must laugh his tiny ass off when he deals with Dementia Donnie.

 

[mandrill]

How Biden and Trump compare on border crossings and immigration

Immigration is a top campaign issue amid questions about the pace of illegal border crossings. Here’s what the available data tells us.

www.csmonitor.com

''Bottom line: While we don’t know exactly how many unauthorized immigrants are added to the U.S. population each year, an array of different metrics signals a significant increase under Mr. Biden.''

OK, Orry. Since SO has produced his source for figures, why don't you show us your source??.... That's a challenge.

 

[WyattEarp]

You eliminate incentives via increasing border security and by providing more avenues to legally immigrate that benefits the nation.
You also eliminate incentives by fixing immigration processes, making them more efficient.

The Canadian immigration system is very different than the U.S. system. This is in no small part due to mass migration from the Southern border. We have less immigration based on merit factors and ability to contribute. So "benefits the nation" is rhetoric that might apply more to the Canadian situation.

It is my opinion, that the U.S. does not need more low-skilled workers. I don't think that's going to change either. I have mentioned I think many Latino voters also believe this to be true. For many, immigration is an economic issue in their communities.

Your goal is to reduce illegal immigration. Not to discourage immigration.
Don't conflate them. They are different things.

That's not what I am saying. What I am saying is increasing legal immigration does not fix illegal immigration. Perhaps you are not exactly saying the opposite, but it sure sounds like it. We have many progressives who think the problem is merely a matter of documentation.

Again, why can't American and Canadian voters decide the proper amount of immigration? This constant wrangling over legal and illegal immigration doesn't change the fact they want a lower amount of immigration.

 

[WyattEarp]

The guy who talks about "Eating cats" and "Arnie Palmer had a big dick" is your man, huh?

Putin must laugh his tiny ass off when he deals with Dementia Donnie.

I think Trump and Vance got sidetracked by the stupid cats/dogs thing. Some stupid campaign guy pulled some stupid stuff off the internet. It was a dumb moment for them.

Makes you wonder how popular Harris really was beyond the raw results. However, I absolutely do agree with Kamala that bacon is a spice. I tell my Muslim friends that every chance I get.

I'm not sure the Arnie Palmer big dick thing was really a big deal. It made Trump more relatable to many. And FYI he always talked that way.

 

[Dutch Oven]

This election seems like it's been a foregone conclusion for so long, Tuesday night was an anti-climax.

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

The Canadian immigration system is very different than the U.S. system. This is in no small part due to mass migration from the Southern border. We have less immigration based on merit factors and ability to contribute. So "benefits the nation" is rhetoric that might apply more to the Canadian situation.

It is my opinion, that the U.S. does not need more low-skilled workers. I don't think that's going to change either. I have mentioned I think many Latino voters also believe this to be true. For many, immigration is an economic issue in their communities.

That's not what I am saying. What I am saying is increasing legal immigration does not fix illegal immigration. Perhaps you are not exactly saying the opposite, but it sure sounds like it. We have many progressives who think the problem is merely a matter of documentation.

Again, why can't American and Canadian voters decide the proper amount of immigration? This constant wrangling over legal and illegal immigration doesn't change the fact they want a lower amount of immigration.

"Benefits the nation" is not rhetoric.
Talent scarcity and labour shortages are realities in Canada and the US alike.
So the legal immigration system has to care for that.
Fixing illegal immigration isn't a thing you can do.
Illegal immigration is always going to be there, so the best you can do is reduce it.
You reduce it by fixing the immigration system, so that it prevents visa overstays which is a major source of illegal immigration.
You reduce it by increasing border security to prevent unauthorized entries.
Voters can decide who to vote for, but that is not what we are talking about here.

 

[WyattEarp]

This election seems like it's been a foregone conclusion for so long, Tuesday night was an anti-climax.

It's fun though to see people to continue campaigning on social media. It's like nothing was settled Tuesday. America did not learn anything about what we wanted.

Yeah, Trump's an asshole. We get it. But what does that say about what policies American embraced Tuesday? They had to say something, dontchya think?

I suppose progressives can hold on to the idea that Harris (and Biden before her) simply ran a very bad campaign.