Doug Ford proposes tunneling under the 401 to create an underground freeway to relieve 401 congestion

[xmontrealer]

Premier Doug Ford is proposing a 55 kilometer tunnel under the existing 401, to extend at least from Mississauga to Scarborough, to be used as a freeway and reduce the above ground 401 congestion.

Cost and time required to build to be studied.

When some reporters and politicians dared to ask why this should turn out better than the over proposed time and budget, and still not working projects such as the Eglinton Crosstown, he replied that he hates their negativity and that "the proof is in the pudding".

Well, if the Eglinton Crosstown is the "pudding" it's way too expensive, pretty nasty tasting, and still not ready to eat...

 

[Frankfooter]

He could just pay the 407 fees for truckers and tell them they have to drive there to bypass the city.

 

[JeanGary Diablo]

The best way is alleviate traffic problems is to invest in superior passenger rail systems -- and fat chance of that getting done any time soon, no matter which party is leading.

Building more highways and widening existing roads does little to curb traffic problems -- it will work short-term, but in the end, they just result in new sets of traffic problems.

I spent a few years living in England in my 20s. What a treat that was never needing a car and taking the train anywhere I wanted to go.

 

[squeezer]

 

[Callmerey]

All nonsense! He’s gonna eat up our money and do nothing or probably even if does get started, it ain’t completing for 10 years and he might just die till then

 

[mandrill]

The best way is alleviate traffic problems is to invest in superior passenger rail systems -- and fat chance of that getting done any time soon, no matter which party is leading.

Building more highways and widening existing roads does little to curb traffic problems -- it will work short-term, but in the end, they just result in new sets of traffic problems.

I spent a few years living in England in my 20s. What a treat that was never needing a car and taking the train anywhere I wanted to go.

But more compact, more intensely peopled cities, right?

I lived in London. The closest thing to a burb you ever got was something that sort of looked like Leaside - a main street with a half-mile of residential on either side. London has no wide, multi-lane grid pattern streets. And London has many more subway routes and surface rail routes than any North American city. You could get from Croydon (far south of London) to the Centre of Town in 15 minutes by rail. If you took a car - and nobody ever would - that's an hour along narrow, blocked, winding, 1-lane surface roads from one little London neighbourhood to another.

You could put as many rail and R/T systems in Toronto as you want, you'd never get the coverage that you get with London or Paris - because Toronto is built after 1960 and is mainly burbs, like LA.

Here's what you should do with Toronto. First of all, STOP BUILDING CONDOS DOWNTOWN!!!!!! Downtown is inaccessible to most GTA-ers and is over-dense. Spread development into Richmond Hill, Markham and Vaughan where the road net can handle it.

Then, you actually CAN keep building and widening roads to keep up with population growth.

Second, de-toll the 407. You can void that dumb contract with an act of the legislature. Once that highway is de-tolled, people will use it.

Third, move amenities like the EX into the burbs and build a rail / RT link to them. And put LOTS of parking around the RT / light rail systems.

 

[mandrill]

All nonsense! He’s gonna eat up our money and do nothing or probably even if does get started, it ain’t completing for 10 years and he might just die till then

He's not going to do it. It's silly-ass bullshit.

A fucking tunnel?!?!?!?.... Put a couple of extra lanes either way and keep adding.

 

[HEYHEY]

This has to be one of the dumbest fucken ideas that I've heard in a long time.
Politicians are so out of touch that its not even funny.

 

[csmitting]

To be fair, he is proposing to spend a lot of taxpayers money that the province will have to borrow to “explore” that putting an Indian Labour express tunnel under the 401 is a colossally retarded idea.

 

[HEYHEY]

He could just pay the 407 fees for truckers and tell them they have to drive there to bypass the city.

Not a bad idea on the surface, however the cost is insane for trucks. You're talking almost $2 per km + fees

They should have never sold the 407 to begin with, now their hands are tied

 

[jimidean2011]

Not a bad idea on the surface, however the cost is insane for trucks. You're talking almost $2 per km + fees

They should have never sold the 407 to begin with, now their hands are tied

Right!?! The solution to the traffic problems is about 20km north of the 401 and it's call the 407. With both highways available traffic would be reasonable. Our politicians are absolutely fucked in the head.

 

[NotADcotor]

The solution is Monorail!

Nah, Toronto is not at that level, it's more of a Ogdenville, Brockway, and North Haverbrook thing.

 

[maurice93]

Second, de-toll the 407. You can void that dumb contract with an act of the legislature. Once that highway is de-tolled, people will use it.

The 407 contract is pretty iron clad over the term of the lease (I believe its 100 years). It can't be easily voided unfortunately. All the highway operators have to do is meet minimum traffic targets, build extra lines when traffic hits certain levels, and then they are allowed to gouge accordingly.

I suppose the province can buy the 407 operators out of the lease / buy back the highway.. that would cost an astronomical figure.
The 407 contract agreed to by Harris is probably the worse contract (financial and in terms of foresight for municipal needs) ever signed for the citizens of Toronto and Ontario. Also be wary of politicians who push "common sense" as part of their agenda.

 

[jimidean2011]

It can't be easily voided unfortunately

Where there's a will there's a way.

I suppose the province can buy the 407 operators out of the lease / buy back the highway.. that would cost an astronomical figure.

Would it be more expensive than the currently proposed tunnel?

 

[Frankfooter]

But more compact, more intensely peopled cities, right?

I lived in London. The closest thing to a burb you ever got was something that sort of looked like Leaside - a main street with a half-mile of residential on either side. London has no wide, multi-lane grid pattern streets. And London has many more subway routes and surface rail routes than any North American city. You could get from Croydon (far south of London) to the Centre of Town in 15 minutes by rail. If you took a car - and nobody ever would - that's an hour along narrow, blocked, winding, 1-lane surface roads from one little London neighbourhood to another.

You could put as many rail and R/T systems in Toronto as you want, you'd never get the coverage that you get with London or Paris - because Toronto is built after 1960 and is mainly burbs, like LA.

Here's what you should do with Toronto. First of all, STOP BUILDING CONDOS DOWNTOWN!!!!!! Downtown is inaccessible to most GTA-ers and is over-dense. Spread development into Richmond Hill, Markham and Vaughan where the road net can handle it.

Then, you actually CAN keep building and widening roads to keep up with population growth.

Second, de-toll the 407. You can void that dumb contract with an act of the legislature. Once that highway is de-tolled, people will use it.

Third, move amenities like the EX into the burbs and build a rail / RT link to them. And put LOTS of parking around the RT / light rail systems.

Hilarious.

You note that you need population density to support subways then argue against it in toronto.
Instead you want condos out in the burbs where there will never be enough density for subways unless you pave over housing developments.

 

[xmontrealer]

But hey, by the time they might be ready to put the tunnel borers in the ground under the 401, the Metrolinx Eglinton Crosstown might be up and running.

And then Doug could possibly be able convince Phil Verster, the head and coordinator extraordinaire of Metrolinx and the Eglinton project, to oversee the 401 project (if he offers Phil enough money, of course...)

 

[mandrill]

The 407 contract is pretty iron clad over the term of the lease (I believe its 100 years). It can't be easily voided unfortunately. All the highway operators have to do is meet minimum traffic targets, build extra lines when traffic hits certain levels, and then they are allowed to gouge accordingly.

I suppose the province can buy the 407 operators out of the lease / buy back the highway.. that would cost an astronomical figure.
The 407 contract agreed to by Harris is probably the worse contract (financial and in terms of foresight for municipal needs) ever signed for the citizens of Toronto and Ontario. Also be wary of politicians who push "common sense" as part of their agenda.

IIRC contracts can be voided with an act of the legislature. "Will of the People", etc.

It would be interesting to check into that.

 

[Mr Deeds]

Looking at from a particularly selfish point of view, anything that Douggy does now won't be finished until long after a lot of us are dead so don't care

 

[oil&gas]

If the emission reduction target of zero emission by 2050 can
be achieved incrementally I don't see highway congestion to be
an issue. Enforcement of a yearly emission reduction like 3% to
4% should reduce traffic to a small fraction of what it is today by
2050 as only the affluent minority can afford EV ownership.
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[Skoob]

The best way is alleviate traffic problems is to invest in superior passenger rail systems -- and fat chance of that getting done any time soon, no matter which party is leading.

Building more highways and widening existing roads does little to curb traffic problems -- it will work short-term, but in the end, they just result in new sets of traffic problems.

I spent a few years living in England in my 20s. What a treat that was never needing a car and taking the train anywhere I wanted to go.

European cities are comprised differently and shouldn't be compared to Toronto as far as applying similar solutions.
Last time our councilors visited European cities for ideas they came back with bike lanes and fucked up traffic even more.