Reverie

Israeli terrorist attack on Lebanon kills 9, injures thousands

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Frankfooter

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Leimonis said:
show me one example when an army was fighting against a large well organized, financed and armed group of militants that took civilian hostages and hid with them in billion dollar tunnels under civilian structures and where that army took greater care to protect civilians or achieved a better ratio of civilian vs militant casualties.
I’ll wait.
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Show me one example where a foreign colonial movement with billions in foreign weapons and the most state of the art army in the middle east couldn't handle 20,000 militants living in a giant concentration camp under apartheid rule and a 17 year blockade despite dropping 36 kg of explosives for every man, woman and child and holding 9,000 hostages.

Why doesn't Israel just end the occupation and give Palestine back to Palestinians?
That's the only way to end the resistance from the indigenous people there.

You really think you can either kill all 6 million of them or drive them into the sea?

 
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mandrill

mandrill

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princekwekua said:
You are to the Israeli murderers what Frankfooter is to the jihadists - defend at all cost. No sense in continuing with you so keep at it.
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So your call is something like:

"Hey there, Hamas. I'm Israel.

You can't rape raid our civilian women and kidnap out little kids. We'll get mad and come get you. Unless you put your military installations in hospitals and schools. If you do that, we won't do anything and you can come rape raid our women every couple of weeks."

That's not much of an answer, is it?

It's pretty clear that Hamas based their plans on Israel doing exactly what you suggest and Israel being essentially helpless to strike back.
 
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shack

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Frankfooter said:
I guess we'll find out if Yemen has more hypersonic missiles and if Lebanon has any soon as well.
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Our resident humanitarian is threating more violence. That's what got Gazans into this situation in the first place. Some people/races never learn.
 
whynot888

whynot888

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Frankfooter said:
Show me one example where a foreign colonial movement with billions in foreign weapons and the most state of the art army in the middle east couldn't handle 20,000 militants living in a giant concentration camp under apartheid rule and a 17 year blockade despite dropping 36 kg of explosives for every man, woman and child and holding 9,000 hostages.

Why doesn't Israel just end the occupation and give Palestine back to Palestinians?
That's the only way to end the resistance from the indigenous people there.

You really think you can either kill all 6 million of them or drive them into the sea?

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Frank, is that you? I was worried about you, i heard about those devices exploding and thought you might of lost a limb or two.
 
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Klatuu

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mandrill said:
So your call is something like:

"Hey there, Hamas. I'm Israel.

You can't rape raid our civilian women and kidnap out little kids. We'll get mad and come get you. Unless you put your military installations in hospitals and schools. If you do that, we won't do anything and you can come rape raid our women every couple of weeks."

That's not much of an answer, is it?

It's pretty clear that Hamas based their plans on Israel doing exactly what you suggest and Israel being essentially helpless to strike back.
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I always love it when people create fictional comments by others and the blame the other person for what they invented. Some people just like to self select stupid.
 
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shack

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Frankfooter said:
Show me one example where a foreign colonial movement with billions in foreign weapons and the most state of the art army in the middle east couldn't handle 20,000 militants living in a giant concentration despite dropping 36 kg of explosives for every man, woman and child and holding 9,000 hostages.
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So you agree that the Oct.7 attack was pretty fucking stupid. Actually, Hamas knew what would happen and has been quite happy that so many have died. Kind of like you.
 
SchlongConery

SchlongConery

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Frankfooter said:
Why doesn't Israel just end the occupation and give Palestine back to Palestinians?
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Frankfooter said:
Just end the occupation, give back Palestine and let the two state solution happen.
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So here is where I see the disconnect between us. I thought you were opposed to a two-state solution. That the entire population of Israel, from the river.to the sea should just pack up and leave.

I think the British fucked over both the Palis and Jews by promising them the same thing etc. But that is a done deal and effectively can't be undone. Nevermind that the Jews also have indigenous history and claims to the land.

I have always supported any sort of a two state solution.

But it has been my understanding and (casual) observation over the years that the various entities that come and go that represent Palestinians, outright reject such a two state solution. This is what I remember from as young as I can recall when Yassar Arafat led the PLO, hijacked airliners, the 1972 Munich Olympics massacre, subsequent suicide bombers etc.

I understand, again, on my casual understanding, is that Israel has proposed and discussed various two-state sort of solutions for decades. Only to be rejected by the then-current group claiming to represent Palestinians. These radical fringe-types are prone to violence and will kill their own fellow Pali's if they are thought to be anything except the all-or-nothing approach.

The reality is that Israel and its people living there are not going to leave. Period. Full stop. And they can, and have, prevailed in each and every aspect of any confict with Palestinians.

So, if whomever is representing the Palestinians are only going to dismiss two-state and only accept a 'river to the sea' solution.... then what?
 
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Frankfooter

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shack said:
Our resident humanitarian is threating more violence. That's what got Gazans into this situation in the first place. Some people/races never learn.
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I'm not threatening violence, Shazi.
We both know that this is all part of Israel's expanding Israeli - Arab war.

There is no endgame that works in Israel's favour, is there, Shazi?
 
F

Frankfooter

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shack said:
Of course it was intentional. Hamas was hiding there because they had lots of human shields.

Own it.
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There is no justification for targeting hospitals, Shazi.
You just admitted Israel destroyed hospitals on purpose.

Well done.
 
F

Frankfooter

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SchlongConery said:
So here is where I see the disconnect between us. I thought you were opposed to a two-state solution. That the entire population of Israel, from the river.to the sea should just pack up and leave.

I think the British fucked over both the Palis and Jews by promising them the same thing etc. But that is a done deal and effectively can't be undone. Nevermind that the Jews also have indigenous history and claims to the land.

I have always supported any sort of a two state solution.

But it has been my understanding and (casual) observation over the years that the various entities that come and go that represent Palestinians, outright reject such a two state solution. This is what I remember from as young as I can recall when Yassar Arafat led the PLO, hijacked airliners, the 1972 Munich Olympics massacre, subsequent suicide bombers etc.

I understand, again, on my casual understanding, is that Israel has proposed and discussed various two-state sort of solutions for decades. Only to be rejected by the then-current group claiming to represent Palestinians. These radical fringe-types are prone to violence and will kill their own fellow Pali's if they are thought to be anything except the all-or-nothing approach.

The reality is that Israel and its people living there are not going to leave. Period. Full stop. And they can, and have, prevailed in each and every aspect of any confict with Palestinians.

So, if whomever is representing the Palestinians are only going to dismiss two-state and only accept a 'river to the sea' solution.... then what?
Click to expand...
I've never been opposed to the two state solution, Schlong. Previous to the genocide I saw no avenue for it to happen and the only peaceful path forward was to back the Palestinian BDS movement and to back ending Israeli apartheid and giving all Palestinians living under Israeli rule full human rights including the vote. That seemed the best way forward without any violence up until this genocide.

Rwanda got over their genocide but this one is based on such institutional racism and has continued for so long that I don't know if they can ever live together peacefully again. There will be an entire generation of Palestinians who have known nothing but attacks on them and apartheid oppression.

The latest ICJ ruling that Israel's occupation is illegal and that they must end the occupation and pay restitution, now backed by the UNGA resolution, gives a last ditch path towards the two state solution. This may be the only path toward peace now but Israel will never agree to it and it can only happen through boycotts and pressure.

Palestinians have not rejected the two state solution, the reality is that there has never been a legit proposal. The closest was an offer by Olmert that didn't even include a map. That's another discussion and its really not rehashing the history, better to discuss how to end this shite. Hamas even offered to settle for the two state solution off the same borders in Dec during the temporary ceasefire.

Palestinians are also never going to leave and there are 6 million of them there (minus the 200,000 Israel has killed) and another 5 million refugees living just outside their borders. Because of those refugees no neighbouring country will allow Israel to drive Palestinians out, which was Israel's plan in Nov. So Israel is stuck with them and they can't kill them all or drive them out. So how the hell are they going to live with them?

The ICJ/UN route offers Palestine about 15% of historic Palestine, its a shitty deal for them but its still the only path forward. The problem for Israel is that they've put around 1 million settlers inside the 1967 borders that the ICJ says is Palestine.

So yeah, this is a fine time to back the ICJ/UN rulings and go all in for the two state solution.
Otherwise the options are a genocide 'final solution', continued resistance under apartheid one state rule or international pressure for the one state solution with equal rights. Except with equal rights Palestinians would have the same number of voters as Jewish Israelis and they would never allow that either.

You got a better plan?
 
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