The Great Debate

[mandrill]

You put a lot of thought into this and it is well-written. That doesn't mean we have to agree with this.

If Biden was more popular, she would be running close to him. Harris' limited description of her policies to date sound like Biden 2.0. Why is it unfair they be assessed that way? Harris can always say here's where I would do things differently but we know that won't happen. (Hate Trump or like Trump, the guy puts his own stamp on things.)

The Trudeau/Harper thing isn't comparable. Biden is the current Democrat running the country. The Republican ticket is running against the Democratic ticket.

PS- To hark back to the ad slogan this is not your father's Oldsmobile. If her policies look like and feel like an Oldsmobile, they are her father's Oldsmobile.

Not really.

Most voters don't vote policies. They vote personality.

KH could repeat Biden's policies and yet attract a completely different type of voter.

Look at Trump. He has effectively no coherent policies, yet manages to attract those voters who love a senile clown who claims immigrants eat dogs.

 

[shack]

This morning, MSNBC

For the Repugs it's this "mourning".

 

[mandrill]

so not only did he build the wall, he also reinforced the old one that didn't work....good to know....but as soon as he left...they open the borders so the wall also didn't work...the wall from your link that was build by his predecessors to stop illegals from crossing, didn't work because well...the gates were open...LOL...I can do this all day...

Richie, he built less than a hundred miles of wall. And nothing was "opened" by "them".

However, only 80 miles of new barriers have been built where there were none before - that includes 47 miles of primary wall, and 33 miles of secondary wall built to reinforce the initial barrier.

 

[mandrill]

Obviously you have poor people skills too... Trump can't be too technical when explaining to Americans how Tariffs work. He needs to reach every american the best way they understand it... What has Kamala so far has said? Giving 50k to small businesses, 6k to support family...where are those funds coming from? LOL
You happy with her answer to the very first question?
Be honest.

Trump doesn't really understand tariffs. Anything that's more complicated than getting down on his knees and unzipping Putin's pants is too intellectually challenging at this point in his mental decline.

 

[WyattEarp]

Not really.

Most voters don't vote policies. They vote personality.

KH could repeat Biden's policies and yet attract a completely different type of voter.

Look at Trump. He has effectively no coherent policies, yet manages to attract those voters who love a senile clown who claims immigrants eat dogs.

I think 90% of American voters vote for the size and role of government they desire. Some people might be motivated by some social issues such as abortion, immigration and such.

For some of this 90%, the election can become an interactive theatrical experience. You support the Democrats or the Republicans and you believe you are persuading the world around you. Most of that becomes about personality.

Occasionally, there are important discussions going under the noise. Americans are shaping laws pertaining to abortion and immigration right now. It's an amazing thing to watch politicians try to respond to the voters' message. That doesn't mean there isn't a substantial minority in disagreement.

 

[Valcazar]

Harris said no active personal in combat zones when some have died IE 2 navy seals among others

As potential commander she has denigrated those who died and should have been called out

That is not denigrating those who have died.
What a silly thing to say.

And, since you are being so precise, here is what she said, according to the transcript.

"And as of today, there is not one member of the United States military who is in active duty in a combat zone in any war zone around the world, the first time this century."

She specifically said in war zones.
So she was right, even if you want to say limiting that way is misleading. (Which I think is a fair criticism.)

You make good points but to ask opponent to correct a lie is wasting their valuable speaking time when it is authoritative if the moderaters do it but, yes, it is hard to decern what partial, or even full lies, should be called but by calling out lies they stop them

The moderators are never going to get into nitpicky fights with the speakers.
In fact, as others on this thread have said, many people think the moderators shouldn't fact check at all.
(This was the Trump campaigns position since lying freely helps Trump.)

The moderators mostly stuck to things they could directly fact check and didn't involve parsing words - which is probably the best approach you can take in a format like this.

I believe they called out Trump 5 times and not Harris once

I'm sure they called out Trump more than that - he lies constantly and egregiously.
When there is asymmetrical lying, there will be asymmetrical fact-checking

I loved they called out the migrants eating cats (trump threw in dogs LOL) internet hoax and Trump panicked by calling the mayor of the town ( I think it was) who denied it a liar

And if Harris had something as outlandish as that, she would have been called on it.

The Nancy Pelosi lie is the hugest lie of the night and can be easily rebuked as she did not have the power to call in national guard, they missed it and it was a lie they should have been prepared for as he has said it before

Yeah, they probably should have jumped in on that one.

 

[Valcazar]

Yeah, narrcisistic mom putting her politics ahead of her young daughter's innocent fun. Even admits Taylor Swift is not likely to hear it but "it's worth a shot". That's real family values right there! I'm sure that her daughter will never forgive her for it.

Probably already resents her attention whore mom by "helping"her with her makeup! Who else would have drawn the mismatched Snidely Whiplash moustache eyebrows on her cheek implanted over-the-hill-but-not-accepting-it face tightened face...

The mom seems like a piece of work.

 

[shack]

It was sarcasm. Try following along for a change.

I was not attempting to make any point, political or otherwise. It simply reminded me of that line that I think is a cute play on words.

Extremists (like Geno as well) are always overly sensitive and lack a sense of humour. Lighten up, dude.

 

[Valcazar]

And Mitchel laughs when it is pointed out his sources are flat out lying to him.

I'm pretty sure mitchell admitted to being a troll the first month in when I pointed it out.

 

[shack]

Mitch, you are making the forum an obsession. Please post less. You don't have to post many redundant tweets with the same point.

I think that a day in the life of Mitch has 30 hours.

 

[shack]

Why?? Trump's getting ripped off by the mainstream media, just like he did in 2020. Those two ABC debate moderators were a total joke....LMAO

Whose fault is it if he is unlikeable?

 

[SchlongConery]

The mom seems like a piece of work.

And she''s a lightweight compared to most Trump mom's!

 

[shack]

I'm a total right-winger,

Ohhh. So now you tell us. We'd have never known.

 

[Valcazar]

Not really.

Most voters don't vote policies. They vote personality.

KH could repeat Biden's policies and yet attract a completely different type of voter.

Look at Trump. He has effectively no coherent policies, yet manages to attract those voters who love a senile clown who claims immigrants eat dogs.

Most importantly, most undecided voters don't vote policy.
(I'm sure there are some.)
The people who appreciate policy have often already made up their minds - the policies tend to be very different these days.

But as you say, most voters - the vast majority I would think - vote on vibes.

 

[SchlongConery]

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-says-he-will-not-participate-another-debate-with-kamala-harris-2024-09-12/

Trump chickens out of any more debates!

(I knw this is an old meme bit it exemplifies just how and why he is so attractive to his flock... fat, angry bigmouthed chicken!)

Seems he only wants to fight old men cuz he loses when women fight back!

 

[Big Rig]

That is not denigrating those who have died.
What a silly thing to say.

And, since you are being so precise, here is what she said, according to the transcript.

"And as of today, there is not one member of the United States military who is in active duty in a combat zone in any war zone around the world, the first time this century."

She specifically said in war zones.
So she was right, even if you want to say limiting that way is misleading. (Which I think is a fair criticism.)



The moderators are never going to get into nitpicky fights with the speakers.
In fact, as others on this thread have said, many people think the moderators shouldn't fact check at all.
(This was the Trump campaigns position since lying freely helps Trump.)

The moderators mostly stuck to things they could directly fact check and didn't involve parsing words - which is probably the best approach you can take in a format like this.



I'm sure they called out Trump more than that - he lies constantly and egregiously.
When there is asymmetrical lying, there will be asymmetrical fact-checking



And if Harris had something as outlandish as that, she would have been called on it.



Yeah, they probably should have jumped in on that one.

Actually, I agree with you esp about asymmetrical lying,
except her not acknowledging that soldiers are dying in the line of duty. That is not silly

I was trying to point out what Trump will say

He has wisely chickened out of another debate and will fire all those responsible,
except himself of course, as he comes up with more lies about Harris like saying she was told the questions before hand etc

You stand in awe of him blaming all those he has fired when he was the one who hired them and now promises to hire only ass kissers .

Without those who desperately talked Trump into reason gone and a senate and Supreme Court full of ass kissers a second Trump term will be far worse than the first

 

[WyattEarp]

And, since you are being so precise, here is what she said, according to the transcript.

"And as of today, there is not one member of the United States military who is in active duty in a combat zone in any war zone around the world, the first time this century."

She specifically said in war zones.
So she was right, even if you want to say limiting that way is misleading. (Which I think is a fair criticism.)

Technically, Harris was correct if you also apply a strict definition of war zone. We have military advisors in Israel and the Ukraine. They're far from the front lines, but it's also good policy to not disclose that if they were near the lines.

Honest question, were are troops in a war zone during 2001?

None of this is a big deal. I think politicians should be given a fairly long leash to make their case. The China tariff debate is an example.

 

[shack]

Wouldn't be surprising, if true. She did seem rehearsed.

I didn't realize that preparing is cheating.

"Failure to prepare is preparing for failure." That was validated last night.

 

[Valcazar]

Technically, Harris was correct if you apply a strict definition of war zone. We have military advisors in Israel and the Ukraine. They're far from the front lines, but it's also good policy to not disclose that if they were near the lines.

Now that I've listened to more of it, it is clear she was very good at not answering questions when she didn't want to and going with these sort of "technically correct but misleading" or just "really needs more context" kind of answers.
Those are the kind that are exceedingly hard to fact check by a moderator without it turning into an argument about interpretation or emphasis.
I don't mind those kinds of answers so much (I don't love them, but a format like this is always going to have those) but I do think the moderators should have been better with follow up questions when she skated away from ever actually answering.

 

[WyattEarp]

I didn't realize that preparing is cheating.

"Failure to prepare is preparing for failure." That was validated last night.

Again you're taking posts out of the context of the thread.

As far as the Twitterati claiming there is an ABC whistleblower coming forward to declare Kamala being fed the questions, I'll just wait for this whistleblower to surface. Unfortunately, fucking around about debate cheating is only believable because it happened in 2016.

Regardless, the questions aren't really all that surprising. The candidates probably have heard them all several times in their debate prep.