WAS OSAMA BIN LADEN REALLY BEHIND 9/11?

SchlongConery

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Well, he was embedded with the IDF as they attacked Israel so not sure how impartial you would be given that.
Though he did say Israel's goal was, as always, colonization.

I'm more curious who you think he means when he says this.

The real culprits behind 9/11 have never been revealed.
Copyright Eric S. Margolis 2024
If he was embedded with the Israeli Defence Force while "they" (Hamas ?) attacked Israel that might suggest he was "supporting" Israel. No? Or is he supporting Islamic forces/people?

Orrrrrr... "embedded" as in a war correspondent/journalist traditionally is. They do not take up arms. They wear PRESS identifiers. They bear cameras, tape recorders, notebooks... not guns.

Why do you (and others) always seem to want to brand somebody as pro or anti whatever? You keep trying to nail ME down and refuse to accept my honest belief that I see both sides of this Israeli/Palestinian conflict. The closest I can get to any definitive conclusion is that I see radicals on both sides making life miserable for the average person. And for as long as I have considered it, the radicals will continue to take radical actions until .... well, I see no solution. 🤷‍♂️
 

SchlongConery

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Well, he was embedded with the IDF as they attacked Israel so not sure how impartial you would be given that.
Though he did say Israel's goal was, as always, colonization.

I'm more curious who you think he means when he says this.

The real culprits behind 9/11 have never been revealed.
Copyright Eric S. Margolis 2024

I don't think Osama Bin Laden was the personal motivator nor mastermind behind 9/11. My inclination is that it was some loosely organized group of Saudi inddividuals.
 

SchlongConery

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He says hamas is democratically elected yet as we know from team “free Palestine” Palestinians are not at all responsible for hamas terror acts because there was no elections since etc etc.
isn’t there a bit of a contradiction?
Of course Palestinian people elected Hamas. The Palestinian people themselves want to be free of anything to do with Israel. Does that make Palistinian civilians legitimate targets for IDF? No.

But Israel and Israelis have a right to security from elected Hamas militants so, unfortunately, those who voted for Hamas are suffering consequences that they either, at best, did no foresee or really had no control over.
 

PeteOsborne

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I personally know Eric Margolis, although I haven't seen nor been in contact with him since he sold Jameson Vitamins. I wouldn't call us best friends or anything as we are definitely several strata apart in society, but I've spent many hours with him. And I've read a lot of his writing. Books, columns etc.

He is no kook, I assure everyone. Some of the things he wrote about, I had first hand, direct knowledge and understanding of the subject matter. An he was directly on-point and accurate. So I do trust him on matters that I don't have knowledge on. And knowing him through business, he is a man of integrity.

He was to the Manor born yes, but he used the freedom of his family money to become a real world travelling, investigative journalist and correspondent. This guy has been welcomed by.some of the most influential, consequential and powerful people in our lifetime. He is no bullshitter and is betrothen to no one.

You can take what he says to the bank.
I have read past articles by him and they all seem well thought out and seem to hold merit in investigating further, he has an impressive biography and is well respected.
This is why i asked if there was more to the article, it doesn't have his normal investigative reasoning and seems incomplete.
 

PeteOsborne

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Involved? Maybe, but he certainly wasn't the mastermind or main facilitator. The bush administration are the main culprit when you look deep enough
There is the video aired on Al Jazeera of Osama and others taking credit for 911.
https://www.c-span.org/video/?167830-1/bin-laden-videotape
Then in a video released and aired on Al Jazeera in 2004 of Bin Laden admitting for the first time that he ordered the Sept. 11 attacks, bin Laden said he did so because of injustices against the Lebanese and Palestinians by Israel and the United States.

Here is the transcript of Bin Ladens speech in the 18 minute video.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2004/11/1/full-transcript-of-bin-ladins-speech
 
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mandrill

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He was murdered gangster style in Pakistan in 2011 by a US hit squad. At the time, the so-called `world’s most dangerous terrorist’ was living in quiet retirement in Pakistan.
😺 😺 😺 😺 😺 😺 😺 (y)(y)(y)(y)(y)

It was always going to end that way for that vile piece of shit.

Shame it took so long. Yahya's going to die the same way when the Israelis kill him.
 
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mandrill

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I personally know Eric Margolis, although I haven't seen nor been in contact with him since he sold Jameson Vitamins. I wouldn't call us best friends or anything as we are definitely several strata apart in society, but I've spent many hours with him. And I've read a lot of his writing. Books, columns etc.

He is no kook, I assure everyone. Some of the things he wrote about, I had first hand, direct knowledge and understanding of the subject matter. An he was directly on-point and accurate. So I do trust him on matters that I don't have knowledge on. And knowing him through business, he is a man of integrity.

He was to the Manor born yes, but he used the freedom of his family money to become a real world travelling, investigative journalist and correspondent. This guy has been welcomed by.some of the most influential, consequential and powerful people in our lifetime. He is no bullshitter and is betrothen to no one.

You can take what he says to the bank.
I have read past articles by him and they all seem well thought out and seem to hold merit in investigating further, he has an impressive biography and is well respected.
This is why i asked if there was more to the article, it doesn't have his normal investigative reasoning and seems incomplete.
Dudes, no.

IIRC Eric Margolis is one of Danny's standby American-basher "sources" and can be counted on to say dumb shit, as long as it blames the US.
 

mandrill

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I have read past articles by him and they all seem well thought out and seem to hold merit in investigating further, he has an impressive biography and is well respected.
This is why i asked if there was more to the article, it doesn't have his normal investigative reasoning and seems incomplete.
It's standard Margolis stuff.
 

Robert Mugabe

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😺 😺 😺 😺 😺 😺 😺 (y)(y)(y)(y)(y)

It was always going to end that way for that vile piece of shit.

Shame it took so long. Yahya's going to die the same way when the Israelis kill him.
I didn't say that. You are misquoting me. I was quoting someone else.
I tend to disbelieve any shit about Afghanistan, Iraq, Bin Laden, Seal team 6 and all the other "slam dunk" bullshit they conjured up around it all.
 
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mandrill

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WAS OSAMA BIN LADEN REALLY BEHIND 9/11?
by Eric Margolis

September 6, 2024
Twenty-three years ago this month the 9/11 attacks on the World Trade Center and Pentagon shook the United States and horrified the world.
Almost three thousand Americans died. The US launched attacks across the Muslim world in what the media called ‘the War on Terror.’ The repercussions of these events continue today.
Washington quickly blamed Saudi/Yemeni jihadist Osama bin Laden for these attacks and vowed to hunt him down. But was he really guilty? As a veteran of the Afghan Wars and Mideast struggles, I still don’t believe most of Washington’s claims, most notably that the perpetrator was Osama bin Laden.
It was subsequently revealed that the 9/11 attacks were likely planned in Germany and Spain, not Kabul, Afghanistan. The head of Pakistani intelligence told me he believed bin Laden may have known in advance of the planned attacks but was not personally involved. Let’s recall that bin Laden was a CIA asset during the war against Soviet occupation of Afghanistan – which I covered.
Other senior Afghan mujahidin leaders concurred with this view. They believed the 9/11 attacks originated from Saudi Arabia. Many Saudis believed their nation was ‘occupied’ by the US. Most of the 19 aircraft hijackers on 9/11 were Saudis. They were based around Delray Beach, Florida. But the US could not admit this embarrassing fact.
Interestingly, bin Laden, whose path I crossed in Afghanistan, claimed that the 9/11 attacks were ‘in revenge’ for Israel’s attacks on Beirut and other parts of southern Lebanon in 1982. Israel asserts the Lebanon attack was part of its campaign to crush the Palestine Liberation Organization which sought refuge in Lebanon.
US-supplied Israeli heavy artillery destroyed important parts of Lebanon’s capitol, Beirut, killing large numbers of Lebanese civilians over three months. Water and food to Beirut were cut off by Israel, a harbinger of the punishment currently being inflicted on Gaza. Lebanese neo-fascists allied to Israel massacred large numbers of Palestinian civilians at Sabra and Shatila in Beirut. I was there for Day 1 of the Lebanese civil war.
The George W. Bush administration was determined to conquer Afghanistan to secure a route for oil pipelines from Central Asia to the Arabian Sea. Bush had no idea about any of this but his far-right Defense Secretary Dick Cheney was lusting for oil and hated Afghanistan’s resistance movement, Taliban, which refused to take orders from the White House.
Cheney decided to invade Afghanistan. 9/11 was, of course, his perfect excuse, no matter the facts. The Afghans became the whipping boy for Washington’s egregious blunders during the 9/11 period. President Musharraf of Pakistan told me that Washington threatened to ‘bomb us back into the Stone Age’ if Pakistan did not allow US forces to attack Afghanistan from Pakistan. He gave in.
The tame US media amplified the war of lies against Afghanistan and Osama bin Laden. After 9/11, I was the principal CNN commentator on Afghanistan. Few Americans knew anything at the time about this distant, mysterious nation – except for me. I was with all the senior Afghan resistance leaders and with Taliban when it was formed to stop attacks by Communist forces, stop opium production and protect Afghan women from wide-scale rape.
Big TV in the US decided to label the Afghan resistance ‘terrorists.’ I refused to use this dishonest terminology originated by Israel to delegitimize the Palestinians. I refused to parrot the anti-Afghan propaganda being promoted by US TV. I called all the film clips of bin Laden supposedly blessing the 9/11 attacks as crude fakes. They were produced by the Afghan communists, America’s allies of the moment.
Unsurprisingly, I was kicked off CNN and blacklisted by them. According to a CNN producer, the Bush White House called CNN and ordered that I be taken off the air.
Bin Laden became the poster boy for evil Muslims and the whipping boy for all of Washington’s mistakes in its new colonial wars in the Muslim world.
Osama bin Laden wanted to see heavy-handed US influence evicted from the Muslim word. He failed. He was murdered gangster style in Pakistan in 2011 by a US hit squad. At the time, the so-called `world’s most dangerous terrorist’ was living in quiet retirement in Pakistan.
The real culprits behind 9/11 have never been revealed.
Copyright Eric S. Margolis 2024
OSL was holed up in Ghan after 9/11 because the Taliban promised to cover his ass. So the US engineered a coalition of non Taliban tribes and overthrew the T and send in forces to chase out OBL.

Then the US was stuck, because they figured when they left, OBL would come back and roost anew. So it became a long-term occupation, instead of a quick hit-and-run.

First I've heard about the "pipelines", which is bullshit. Russia controls that oil and - if it was available - it could be run via Turkey under the Caspian Sea.
 

PeteOsborne

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Plenty of people have taken credit for work they didn't complete. Also, I said he was involved but as such he was only peripherally involved.
Then you don't remember the video of him at the training camp with 2 of the terrorists, who were killed on 911, training, it includes scenes of men handling weapons and box cutters, and training to overpower others physically.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/bin-laden-9-11-planning-video-aired-1.618703
How about May 23, 2006 when Al Jazeera broadcast a 5-minute audiotape from bin Laden, where he claims he, alone, assigned the hijackers to perform the 911 attacks.
He sent it in response to Zacarias Moussaoui being sentenced to six consecutive life terms earlier in May for failing to tell the FBI about the plot.
He states" "I am the one in charge of the 19 brothers, and I never assigned brother Zacarias to be with them in that mission,"
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2010/3/25/timeline-messages-from-bin-laden
 

Frankfooter

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If he was embedded with the Israeli Defence Force while "they" (Hamas ?) attacked Israel that might suggest he was "supporting" Israel. No? Or is he supporting Islamic forces/people?

Orrrrrr... "embedded" as in a war correspondent/journalist traditionally is. They do not take up arms. They wear PRESS identifiers. They bear cameras, tape recorders, notebooks... not guns.

Why do you (and others) always seem to want to brand somebody as pro or anti whatever? You keep trying to nail ME down and refuse to accept my honest belief that I see both sides of this Israeli/Palestinian conflict. The closest I can get to any definitive conclusion is that I see radicals on both sides making life miserable for the average person. And for as long as I have considered it, the radicals will continue to take radical actions until .... well, I see no solution. 🤷‍♂️
Sure, embedded press don't take up arms but they are also able to only report on one side of the story. They will also be shown selected bits of battle with selected bits of intel.

At this point there seems to be only a few possible outcomes.
1) Israel 'finishes the job' and either kills everyone in Gaza through bombs, starvation and disease, as the UN rapporteur just warned.
2) Harris understands she could lose the election over support of genocide and the US ends it
3) The world pushes for international intervention and ends the occupation of Palestine, honouring the ICJ ruling calling for the end of the occupation.

Israel can't kill all of Hamas, they will only lay the seeds of the next generation of resistance.
Latest numbers say that its likely over 200,000 dead with most of the rest of the population sick, injured and starving.

Do you really think the genocide can continue?
 

basketcase

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JDL is at U of T.
You are now aiding importing terrorists into Canada to defend your genocide.
Not a terrorist group according to Canada. Hamas is. PIJ is. Hezbollah is. The IRGC is.

Speaking of terrorist immigrants, your only comment on the Pakistani who's plot was to butcher NY Jews was to claim he was set up.
 

basketcase

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As you refuse to accept, Hamas, PIJ, Hezbollah are terror groups according to Canada. The PLO and various other factions were designated terror groups.

Israeli politicians may take advantage of terror attacks but since 1920, those terror attacks with the express goal of eliminating the Jewish presence have been a fact of life. With the exception of the Suez Crisis which was a British/French plot to keep the Canal, every Israeli attack has been the direct response to attacks on it by terror group sand foreign armies.
 

basketcase

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I personally know Eric Margolis, although I haven't seen nor been in contact with him since he sold Jameson Vitamins. I wouldn't call us best friends or anything as we are definitely several strata apart in society, but I've spent many hours with him. And I've read a lot of his writing. Books, columns etc.

He is no kook, I assure everyone. Some of the things he wrote about, I had first hand, direct knowledge and understanding of the subject matter. An he was directly on-point and accurate. So I do trust him on matters that I don't have knowledge on. And knowing him through business, he is a man of integrity.

He was to the Manor born yes, but he used the freedom of his family money to become a real world travelling, investigative journalist and correspondent. This guy has been welcomed by.some of the most influential, consequential and powerful people in our lifetime. He is no bullshitter and is betrothen to no one.

You can take what he says to the bank.
I will clearly state my objection to Margolis and your statements of his background explain it.

Obviously the US like every other country is looking out for its own interests and does some shady things with that goal in mind. My problem with Margolis' views is he seems to hold the US/Western world solely responsible making it seem like he ignores the choices and agency of non-Westerners. He seems to portray the same kind of "White Man's Burden" of his western elite progenitors. It does make sense to hold one's own government accountable in a way that you don't do other governments but his work has too much hints of an elitist racism for my tastes.

And yes, it is clear that his views critical of the West are being used by foreign governments to promote their own interests.
 

basketcase

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Of course Palestinian people elected Hamas. The Palestinian people themselves want to be free of anything to do with Israel. Does that make Palistinian civilians legitimate targets for IDF? No.

But Israel and Israelis have a right to security from elected Hamas militants so, unfortunately, those who voted for Hamas are suffering consequences that they either, at best, did no foresee or really had no control over.
There are anti-Hamas views, especially in Gaza but since they are who they are, public dissent is not very safe.

There is a report about Palestinian pollsters in Gaza appeasing Hamas by changing results but even still, approval rates for Hamas in Gaza are far lower than in the West Bank.

1726105828339.png
 

Frankfooter

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As you refuse to accept, Hamas, PIJ, Hezbollah are terror groups according to Canada. The PLO and various other factions were designated terror groups.

Israeli politicians may take advantage of terror attacks but since 1920, those terror attacks with the express goal of eliminating the Jewish presence have been a fact of life. With the exception of the Suez Crisis which was a British/French plot to keep the Canal, every Israeli attack has been the direct response to attacks on it by terror group sand foreign armies.
JDL are listed as terrorists by the US, Ben Gvir and the Kahanists are listed as terrorists by Canada.
You will say that doesn't count because your definition of terrorism is based on race, the same reason you support genocide.

Zionism is a foreign colonial movement, Palestinians have a right to use violence against a foreign occupation of Palestine.
You refuse to admit Palestinians have the right to defence as you refuse to admit they are human and therefore have any basic human rights.

If you want this to end then Israel must obey the ICJ and leave Palestine, including Gaza and the West Bank right now.

 

Frankfooter

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There are anti-Hamas views, especially in Gaza but since they are who they are, public dissent is not very safe.

There is a report about Palestinian pollsters in Gaza appeasing Hamas by changing results but even still, approval rates for Hamas in Gaza are far lower than in the West Bank.
How do you take polls during the genocide where there are no safe zones, no power and no infrastructure left?
 
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basketcase

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JDL are listed as terrorists by the US, Ben Gvir and the Kahanists are listed as terrorists by Canada.
...
Your usual attempt to blur lines. Canada does not consider Ben Gvir a terrorist. He may have a similar ideological view as Kach which is banned in Canada (and Israel) but being a racist is not the same as being a terrorist (almost every Palestinian group including the PA share an ideological root with terror or former terror groups so I'm sure you don't want that distinction ignored). Canada and the US have also started sanctioning current settler groups and I support Canada's determinations.


Your interesting in portraying Jewish groups as terrorists though is pathetic because you have consistently claimed that the Palestinian and Iran-linked group on that same list aren't terrorists.
If you accept Kach as a terror group, why do you keep backing Abu Nidal (Fatah revolutionary Council), Al Aqsa Martyr's brigade (Fatah), Hamas in it's entirety, Harakat al-Sabireen, Hizbullah, Iran's IRGC and it's Qud's force, the PLF, PIJ, PFLP?
 
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