Ukraine is Giving Putin A taste of His Medicine

bver_hunter

Well-known member
Nov 5, 2005
29,167
7,071
113
How Ukraine’s surprise push into Russian territory caught Moscow off guard

The Ukraine army’s surprise charge into Russia this week was a stunning maneuver that caught the Kremlin’s forces off guard.

The Kremlin declared a “federal-level” emergency in the Kursk region following the large-scale incursion and sent reinforcements there on Friday, four days after hundreds of Ukrainian troops poured across the border.

Meanwhile, a Russian plane-launched missile slammed into a Ukrainian shopping mall in the middle of the day, killing at least 14 people and wounding 44 others, authorities said. It was the latest in an unrelenting barrage of strikes on civilian targets, which made July the deadliest month for civilians since October 2022, according to the U.N. Human Rights Monitoring Mission in Ukraine.

The strategic goal of Ukraine’s biggest cross-border incursion in almost 900 days of the war remains unclear, but it counters Russia’s unrelenting effort in recent months to punch through Ukrainian defenses at selected points along the front line in eastern Ukraine.

The Russian offensive’s slow, grinding momentum has achieved only modest gains and brought heavy losses of troops and armor. But, bit by bit, the advances are adding up.

These summer months are critical for Ukraine and its depleted army. It must hold at bay its bigger and better-equipped enemy on the battlefield, while repairing — before winter arrives — a national power grid smashed by Russian missiles,

What does Ukraine’s eastern front battlefield look like?
The roughly 1,000-kilometer (600-mile) front line remains largely deadlocked.

But at points in the east, especially in the Donetsk region. Russia is making a concerted push. Its army is exploiting the dry land to move its armor, the bushy tree lines for infantry cover, and the clear skies to launch powerful glide bombs that obliterate Ukrainian defenses.

The Russian advance is slow but relentless. Russia’s hallmark tactics are to use its artillery, missiles and bombs to reduce villages and hamlets to ruins, denying Ukrainians defensive cover and compelling them to pull back.

Moscow’s forces look to exploit weaknesses in the Ukrainian lines, driving a wedge into sections where troops levels are lower or where soldiers are being rotated out, analysts say.

The Russians are now menacing some key Ukrainian strongholds, whose fall would put the rest of the Donetsk region at risk: Pokrovsk, Toretsk and Chasiv Yar.

Russian forces are now 10 miles (16 kilometers) from Pokrovsk, an important logistics hub that supports Ukrainian forces in the region, the U.K. Defense Ministry said Friday. Russia also continues to consolidate gains in Niu-York and is advancing toward Toretsk, the ministry said.

“Right now, the momentum is clearly on Russia’s side,” says Charles Kupchan, a senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations, a think tank in Washington. Even so, he says, the overall battlefield situation is “much closer to a stalemate.”

Russia makes gains but its advance may soon peter out
Though it currently has the momentum, and appears bent on chalking up some battlefield triumphs before the weather turns, Russia also has nagging problems.

Moscow’s army sustained more than 1,000 casualties a day in May and June as it bore down on Donetsk, according to the U.K. Defense Ministry.

And while it has overrun a string of small Ukrainian settlements — some of them little more than a ribbon of roadside houses — its advances “will likely slow further as Russian forces advance into a line of larger and more urban settlements,” the Institute for the Study of War, a Washington-based think tank, said last week.

Kupchan, of the Council on Foreign Relations, isn’t expecting a major Russian breakthrough. Even if Russia can punch a hole in the line, “organizing a column that could advance deep behind Ukrainian lines is complicated” because of logistical and organizational demands that the military can’t satisfy.

“It’s not a high-quality force,” he said of the Russian army. But he added: “In a war of attrition, numbers matter.”

Kostiantyn Mashovets, an expert at Ukraine’s Center for Military and Political Research, reckons Russia is pushing hard now, because it “has reached the peak in building up its (military) forces and power.”

A turning point will come by the end of this year, he says, when the Kremlin will have to decide whether to launch a partial or full mobilization.

Ukraine’s surprise tactic: A drive into Russia's Kursk region
Ukraine added a new twist to the war by invading Russia’s Kursk province on Aug. 6. Officials in Kyiv have been tight-lipped about the advance of Ukrainian troops into Russia, not confirming it but not denying it either.

The surprise incursion launched from Ukraine’s northeastern Sumy region appears to be a tactic that opens a new area of conflict and, significantly, on Russian soil. The United States and Western allies who supply Ukraine with weapons have said little so far about Ukraine’s incursion. U.S. officials have confirmed that the Kursk incursion is a cross-border operation in which the use of U.S.-supplied weapons is acceptable.

Some analysts say it is a short-term foray, but others say it could be the start of a concerted push to seize the city of Kursk and a nearby nuclear power plant. It’s not certain what Ukraine’s strategy would be to hold territory inside Russia.

Myhailo Podolyak, a top adviser to President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, said Thursday that border region attacks will cause Russia to “start to realize that the war is slowly creeping inside of Russian territory.” He also suggested such an operation would improve Kyiv’s hand in the event of negotiations with Moscow.

“When will it be possible to conduct a negotiation process in the way that we can push them or get something from them? Only when the war is not going on according to their scenarios,” he said.

Russia is deploying multiple rocket launchers, towed artillery guns, tanks transported on trailers and heavy tracked vehicles, the RIA-Novosti new agency said, citing the Defense Ministry.

“The operational situation in the Kursk region remains difficult,” Kursk acting governor Alexei Smirnov said on Telegram.

The Russian Defense ministry reported fighting in the western outskirts of Sudzha, about 10 kilometers (6 miles) from the border. The town has an important pipeline transit hub for Russian natural gas.

For Ukraine, the situation is grim but not hopeless
Ukraine’s troops are straining to hold back Russia’s military might and don’t have the manpower or weapons to launch their own offensive.

It’s also having difficulty equipping new brigades, it lacks air defenses, and many of its front-line troops are exhausted, according to analysts.

The army is soaking up the Russian pressure by making tactical retreats and pushing back elsewhere along the line.

“Every moment for Ukraine is getting tougher and tougher,” says Mathieu Boulegue, a defense expert at the Chatham House think tank in London. “I don’t see at this stage how things can get much better than this” for Ukraine.

Ukraine is hitting back by firing drones and missiles at rear areas, hitting Russian oil depots, airfields and other logistical support hubs. The recent arrival of some F-16 fighter jets donated by Western countries should also help Ukraine resist.

What are the prospects for peace?
The negotiating positions of Moscow and Kyiv remain far apart. Russian President Vladimir Putin wants Ukraine’s capitulation, and Zelenskyy demands that Russian forces leave his country.

Both sides seek leverage from the battlefield situation to eventually help achieve a palatable peace deal.

Putin appears happy to keep fueling a low-intensity conflict that gradually — he hopes — drains the West’s willingness to keep sending billions of dollars in aid to Ukraine.

Zelenskyy complains that his hands are tied: he told the NATO summit in July that Ukraine can’t win the war unless the U.S. scraps the limits on the use of its weapons to attack targets in Russia.

In the background are November’s U.S. elections, which could change both sides’ fortunes, and in the fall, a possible second international diplomatic gathering on ending the war where — unlike last time — Russia might get a seat at the table.

The front-line stalemate, international political developments and the possibility of an escalation of the war in the Middle East, and uncertainty over the West’s future level of support for Ukraine hint at a way forward, Kupchan says.

“I think we’re heading toward some kind of sustained diplomatic effort” to end the war, he said.

But Boulegue of Chatham House says the war hasn’t come to a crossroads yet: “As long as both parties have things to throw at each other, they will keep doing it.”

 

bver_hunter

Well-known member
Nov 5, 2005
29,167
7,071
113
Ukraine’s foray into Russia’s border region embarrasses Putin. How will it affect the course of war?
A swift Ukrainian incursion into Russia’s Kursk region was the largest such cross-border raid by Kyiv’s forces in the nearly 2 1/2-year war, exposing Russia’s vulnerabilities and dealing a painful blow to the Kremlin.

 

oil&gas

Well-known member
Apr 16, 2002
13,490
2,061
113
Ghawar
It is easier to send a dinky division of 1000 troops supported
by a handful of tanks into enemy's thinly defended area of little
strategic value than deploying a full army to retake occupied
territories all for the political purpose of keeping economic and
military aid flowing from the sugar daddies.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: SchlongConery

Anbarandy

Bitter House****
Apr 27, 2006
10,894
3,477
113
It is easier to send a dinky division of 1000 troops supported
by a handful of tanks into enemy's thinly defended area of little
strategic value than deploying a full army to retake occupied
territories all for the political purpose of keeping economic and
military aid flowing from the sugar daddies.
Bummed out, huh?
 

SchlongConery

License to Shill
Jan 28, 2013
12,961
6,440
113
It is easier to send a dinky division of 1000 troops supported
by a handful of tanks into enemy's thinly defended area of little
strategic value than deploying a full army to retake occupied
territories all for the political purpose of keeping economic and
military aid flowing from the sugar daddies.

Yes, it's easier. And more effective, efficient and less deadly. This is the difference between an intelligent, pragmatic society and a brutal bully society that sends waves of humans that they themselves refer as "meat".

As predictable, you suck and blow at the same time. If you recall, the "sugar daddies" PROHIBITED the use of western "sugar" on Russian soil. And even now, the "sugar daddies" have only agreed to using their weapons to strike active strictly military targets used to launch attacks on Russian territory. So the Uke's have taken the brave step of going into Russia for among othe things "political purposed". That "political purpose" was to successfully embarrass Putin's Russia to the Russian 'population', to the real influencers in the Russian apparachtik and oligarchy and to Russia's fair weather friends/opportunistic allies like China, Iran, India and even the Russian 'states'. Everyone is realizing that Russia is a paper tiger... that is on fire.

Never mind the strategic value in distracting Russia's military assets from lead absorbing Meat waves from soaking up Ukrainian bullets.

Oh, and yeah Mister "oil&gas".... whaddabout the value of the Soviet-era Urengoy-Pomary-Uzhgorod pipeline that brings gas from western Siberia via Sudzha in Russia's Kursk region. It then flows through Ukraine in the direction of Slovakia?

It's located in Sudzha and now under the control of Ukraine!

In Slovakia, the gas pipeline is divided, one of the branches goes to the Czech Republic, the other to Austria. The main buyers of gas are Hungary, Slovakia and Austria.
s pipeline in that area that

So, another benefit is a big FUCK YOU to Orban and a forced incentive for Slovakia and Austria to find a permanent source of non-Russian gas.


But yeah... those pussy, subservient Ukrainians just carried out this high risk invasion of Russia to serve their western "sugar daddies".

What a feeble attempt to spin the narrative! 😂
 

SchlongConery

License to Shill
Jan 28, 2013
12,961
6,440
113
It is easier to send a dinky division of 1000 troops supported
by a handful of tanks into enemy's thinly defended area of little
strategic value than deploying a full army to retake occupied
territories all for the political purpose of keeping economic and
military aid flowing from the sugar daddies.

Oh and controllling/cutting off the gas at Gazprom's Sudzha station also stops MORE gas sales and money to fund the war. Another thing is that Ukraine will not renew the deal with Russia's Gazprom on using a trans-Ukraine pipeline that expires at the end of 2024.

Drop by drop, cubic meter by cubic meter... Ukraine is creating more and more chaos in the gas station cash machine known as the Russian Federation. And the follow on chaos for internal energy needs and pricing within Russia. And you 🤡 are saying that taking over Sudzha's Sokhranovka station in Kursk is just a political ploy? 😂

.

About 14.65 billion cubic metres (bcm) of gas was supplied via Sudzha in 2023, or about half of Russian natural gas exports to Europe.

In May 2022, Ukraine stopped receiving transit gas through the Sokhranovka station with a capacity of 30 million cubic meters per day, citing force majeure and proposing to transfer all transit volumes to Sudzha.

In December 2019, Moscow and Kyiv signed a long-term five-year agreement for the transit of Russian gas via Ukraine: 45 bcm in 2020 and 40 bcm per year in 2021-2024. The agreement on Russian gas transit to Europe through Ukraine expires in 2024, and Kyiv has said it has no intention of extending it or concluding a new deal.

Russia is ready to continue gas supplies to Europe via Ukraine after the current transit agreement expires at the end of 2024, Russian state news agencies reported last month, citing Deputy Prime Minister Alexander Novak.

The only other operational pipeline route to Europe is Turkstream under the Black Sea.

Gazprom, which holds about 16% of global gas reserves and employs nearly half a million people, was once one of Russia's most powerful corporate empires - so powerful it was known as "a state within the state".

But it has fallen on hard times due to the loss of the European gas market.

The company plunged to a net loss of 629 billion roubles in 2023, its first annual loss in more than 20 years, amid dwindling gas trade with Europe, once its main sales market.



So, yeah, I understand how you dismiss this as just a dog and pony show to please Ukraine's "sugar daddies" 🤡
 
Last edited:

y2kmark

Class of 69...
May 19, 2002
19,064
5,442
113
Lewiston, NY
It is easier to send a dinky division of 1000 troops supported
by a handful of tanks into enemy's thinly defended area of little
strategic value than deploying a full army to retake occupied
territories all for the political purpose of keeping economic and
military aid flowing from the sugar daddies.
Vlad doesn't think so, and that's the whole point. Seems like these high powered analysts could cough up a map, though, doesn't it???
 

oil&gas

Well-known member
Apr 16, 2002
13,490
2,061
113
Ghawar
Ukraine’s shock raid deep inside Russia rages on
Aug 11th, 2024

The soldiers chanted the Lord’s Prayer and clicked rosary beads as they advanced. For Ivan, 43, an old-timer from Ukraine’s 103rd brigade, the fighting inside Russia was just another day’s work. “Grenades and mortars look the same wherever you are.” The newest recruits were almost paralysed with fear. But the men tramped on together, 10km a day, crossing fields and railway lines, every night replacing forward units in hastily dug positions ahead of them. Three days, three hikes, three rotations. On the third night, the Russian glide bombs hit. “Everything was burning. Arms here, legs there”. Twelve men in the company died immediately. Ivan suffered shrapnel injuries to his groin and chest, and was evacuated to a hospital in the Sumy region of Ukraine.

Ukraine's six-day-long operation
inside Russia has progressed faster than many dared believe. A Ukrainian security source says that by Saturday August 10th, some units had moved a full 40km inside Russia towards the regional capital of Kursk. The attack, shrouded in secrecy, caught the Kremlin off-guard. Some 76,000 locals have fled and the Russian authorities have declared a state of emergency there. The absence of a well-organised evacuation has angered many. Vladimir Putin called it a large-scale “provocation”. Volodymyr Artiukh, the head of Ukraine’s military administration in Sumy, says the Ukrainian success represented a “cold shower” for the Russians. “They are feeling what we have been feeling for years, since 2014. This is a historical event.”

But the accounts from Ukraine’s wounded suggest it has not been a walk in the park, and remains risky. The hospital ward reeks of the sacrifice: soil, blood, and stale sweat. Foil burn-dressings line the corridor. In the yard, the patients, some wrapped like mummies from head to toe in bandages, smoke furiously. Angol, a 28-year-old paratrooper with the 33rd brigade, looks like a Christmas tree. His left arm is immobilised in a fixation device. Tubes, bags and wires protrude from his body. He was also about 30km into Russia when his luck ran out. He isn’t sure if it was artillery or a bomb that hit him. Maybe it was friendly fire; there was a lot of that. All he can remember is falling to the ground and shouting “300”, the code for wounded. The Russians had been on the run up to then, he insists, abandoning equipment and ammunition as fast as they could.

Other soldiers in the yard recall the demonic buzz of Russia’s skies. Ukraine has deployed a lot of air-defence and electronic-warfare assets to the area, but drones and aviation find ways through. Mykola, an infantryman who says he was in the first group to cross over into Russia, says pilots attacked as soon as they entered the first Russian village. At a second village, the group was targeted by helicopters. Mykola recalls throwing himself to the ground, and then the sound of a helicopter crashing, downed by a Ukrainian anti-aircraft missile. But close calls have consequences. The problem with throwing yourself to the ground at night is you can’t see where you’re falling, Mykola says. He broke a rib and had to be evacuated.
Some aspects of Ukraine’s operation appear to have been meticulously planned. Operational security delivered the element of surprise, a crucial aspect of warfare. “We sent our most combat-ready units to the weakest point on their border,” says a general-staff source deployed to the region. “Conscript soldiers faced paratroopers and simply surrendered.” But other aspects of the operation indicate a certain haste in preparation. All three soldiers quoted in this article were pulled, unrested, from under-pressure front lines in the east with barely a day’s notice.

The end goal of Ukraine’s operation still remains unclear: does it aim to push further, towards the city of Kursk? Is the plan to occupy part of the territory permanently, perhaps as a bargaining chip in negotiations, or does it intend to withdraw after causing Vladimir Putin maximum embarrassment? Ukraine does not appear to be reinforcing its positions in any serious sense. “Our calf demands a wolf,” the security source cautions, using a local saying to warn against overly ambitious objectives.

A minimum objective appears to be pulling troops away from Russia’s stranglehold in Kharkiv and Donbas, the main focuses of the war. On early evidence, the results are inconclusive. Russia has shifted troops from the Kharkiv front, but so far it has moved far fewer from the vital Donbas front. “Their commanders aren’t idiots,” says the Ukrainian general-staff source. “They are moving forces, but not as quickly as we would like. They know we can’t extend logistics 80 or 100 km.”

The source cautions against comparing the Kursk incursion to Ukraine’s successful swift recapture of much of Kharkiv province in late 2022. The Russian army is taking the war more seriously now, he says: “The danger is we’ll fall into a trap, and Russia will grind our teeth down.” On Sunday Russia’s defence ministry claimed, albeit not for the first time, that it had “thwarted” attempts by Ukrainian forces to break deeper into Russia.

The mathematics of war have never favoured Ukraine, which must husband its limited resources, and an assault deep inside undefended Russian territory risks making the situation worse. But the operation has already improved the one crucial intangible—morale—that has allowed Ukraine to cheat the odds for nearly three years now. Whether in government offices in Kyiv, or in front-line hospitals treating the wounded, the nation believes it has uncovered a vulnerability in Vladimir Putin’s armour. Tired, dirty and exhausted, the soldiers say they regret no part of the risky operation that has already killed scores of their comrades: they would rejoin it in a heartbeat. “For the first time in a long time we have movement,” says Angol. “I felt like a tiger.”

 
Last edited:

danmand

Well-known member
Nov 28, 2003
46,483
4,902
113
Napoleon invaded Russia with 612,000 men

Hitler invaded Russia with 4,200,000 men

Zelensky invaded Russia with 2,000 men
 
  • Like
Reactions: SchlongConery

silentkisser

Master of Disaster
Jun 10, 2008
4,298
5,393
113
Napoleon invaded Russia with 612,000 men

Hitler invaded Russia with 4,200,000 men

Zelensky invaded Russia with 2,000 men
He isn't marching on Moscow.

Now, that being said, taking the fight to the Russian home front on this scale might be jarring to the average Russian. They were promised it would be a quick war (it wasn't), that they were safe (they are not) and that Russia would win (still possible). For propaganda purposes, this is significant. Will it force Russia to re-deploy units from the front lines? Probably not, they have reserves that will be sent to repel the invaders.

Honestly, after all this time, I'm not sure whois going to win. Russia has not achieved any of its goals, but they have Ukrainian territory. Ukraine might not have the men or equipment to reclaim that territory. Putin knows this is bleeding his military, but I imagine he's under serious pressure to win, or all those dead soldiers and destroyed equipment was for nothing...
 

danmand

Well-known member
Nov 28, 2003
46,483
4,902
113
He isn't marching on Moscow.

Now, that being said, taking the fight to the Russian home front on this scale might be jarring to the average Russian. They were promised it would be a quick war (it wasn't), that they were safe (they are not) and that Russia would win (still possible). For propaganda purposes, this is significant. Will it force Russia to re-deploy units from the front lines? Probably not, they have reserves that will be sent to repel the invaders.

Honestly, after all this time, I'm not sure whois going to win. Russia has not achieved any of its goals, but they have Ukrainian territory. Ukraine might not have the men or equipment to reclaim that territory. Putin knows this is bleeding his military, but I imagine he's under serious pressure to win, or all those dead soldiers and destroyed equipment was for nothing...
It will be only days until Putin is disposed and Russia is broken into half a dozen pieces, all governed by USA. LOL
 
Last edited:

oil&gas

Well-known member
Apr 16, 2002
13,490
2,061
113
Ghawar
Zelensky's term has already expired. Interesting to see which of
him or Putin will be disposed first.

Ukraine not Russia is already broken. A more likely outcome
of the war is the eastern part of Ukraine will come under control
of the west. Good for Ukraine as the west will foot the bill of
rebuilding the country for the right to pillage its natural resources.
 

Dutch Oven

Well-known member
Feb 12, 2019
6,992
2,477
113
I'm on the record as stating that Russia's incursion into Ukraine is unlawful, unjustified and stupid, but I have to say that Ukraine's incursion into Russia is best compared to a hockey team that is down 3 games to 0 in the Stanley Cup playoffs shooting pucks into an empty opposition goal before the start of game 4. Likely to irritate the opponent, but unlikely to turn the series around.
 

oil&gas

Well-known member
Apr 16, 2002
13,490
2,061
113
Ghawar
Senator Lindsey Graham has been very impressed by the incursion
and called on Biden and U.S. allies to give Ukraine more weapons they
need to win the war. News media is largely positive and people are
cheering over progress of the incursion as well. This help drum up
support which from the standpoint of the struggling regime of
Ukraine is absolutely essential.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SchlongConery

danmand

Well-known member
Nov 28, 2003
46,483
4,902
113
Zelensky's term has already expired. Interesting to see which of
him or Putin will be disposed first.

Ukraine not Russia is already broken. A more likely outcome
of the war is the eastern part of Ukraine will come under control
of the west. Good for Ukraine as the west will foot the bill of
rebuilding the country for the right to pillage its natural resources.
You mean western part?
 

danmand

Well-known member
Nov 28, 2003
46,483
4,902
113
Senator Lindsey Graham has been very impressed by the incursion
and called on Biden and U.S. allies to give Ukraine more weapons they
need to win the war. News media is largely positive and people are
cheering over progress of the incursion as well. This help drum up
support which from the standpoint of the struggling regime of
Ukraine is absolutely essential.
How many German tanks will be needed to win the battle of Kursk II. ?

The Battle of Kursk was the largest tank battle in history, involving some 6,000 tanks, 2,000,000 troops, and 4,000 aircraft. It marked the decisive end of the German offensive capability on the Eastern Front and cleared the way for the great Soviet offensives of 1944–45
 

oil&gas

Well-known member
Apr 16, 2002
13,490
2,061
113
Ghawar
How many German tanks will be needed to win the battle of Kursk II. ?

The Battle of Kursk was the largest tank battle in history, involving some 6,000 tanks, 2,000,000 troops, and 4,000 aircraft. It marked the decisive end of the German offensive capability on the Eastern Front and cleared the way for the great Soviet offensives of 1944–45

Any fools or perhaps any fools other than Zelensky could
tell the west is not going to provide sufficient aid for Ukraine to
win the war. What Senator Graham meant to say was the west
should continue military support of Ukraine until it fights to the
last man or with luck until Putin is brought down.
 

danmand

Well-known member
Nov 28, 2003
46,483
4,902
113
 
Toronto Escorts