Climate Change

[JohnLarue]

larue, are you really that stupid or are you that willfully ignorant?
This is a discussion about surface temperatures and you keep posting troposphere, or atmospheric stats.
I call you out on this every single time and then eventually you run away and return to your idiotic claims that water vapour is a forcing effect, not CO2.
Then eventually you run away from that and get back to posting apple to orange comparisons of troposphere to surface temperatures.

Its the same, incredibly idiotic claims.
Over and over again.

we have already resolved this
the greenhouse effect occurs almost entirely in the troposphere
hence the troposphere is where to look

This is a discussion about surface temperatures and you keep posting troposphere, or atmospheric stats.

nice try
nope
you are not bright enough to understand the scientific principals , yet you want to ring fence the subject matter >>> fail

what a clown

 

[JohnLarue]

Why is your chart using air pressure tropical anomalies in a debate about global temperatures larue?
How can you post stuff like that and not notice?

Are you really that clueless?

you are that clueless
pressure is used to determine altitude

did you think pilots daggle long tape measures out the plane so they know their altitude ?

what a clown

 

[Frankfooter]

we have already resolved this
the greenhouse effect occurs almost entirely in the troposphere
hence the troposphere is where to look

We live on the surface of the planet, larue, not in the clouds.

Stop being such a dishonest dipshit.
If you want to use temperatures in the troposphere find projections for the troposphere and chart them together.
Stop posting bullshit surface projections against temperatures in the troposphere.

Its idiotically dishonest.

The IPCC models surface temps, not troposphere.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1795455386088083912

 

[JohnLarue]

]We live on the surface of the planet, larue, not in the clouds.

the greenhouse effect occurs almost entirely in the troposphere
& the surface temp record is a god damn mess

the satellite records are verified by independent weather balloon data sets.
if you had the first clue about scientific discovery you would understand the importance of that fact.
It proves the climate models are a mess >>>> No wonder when they treat water vapour as a feedback only molecule , exclude clouds and exclude ozone

Stop being such a dishonest dipshit.

shad up

If you want to use temperatures in the troposphere find projections for the troposphere and chart them together.
Stop posting bullshit surface projections against temperatures in the troposphere.

just arrange for funding for Dr, Christy and ask him politely

Its idiotically dishonest.[

you have never posted anything honest

The IPCC models surface temps, not troposphere.

hence their abysmal track record
they can not even model the past , a bare minimum requirement for any predictive model
the ipcc models are junk
garbage in >> garbage out

the satellite records are verified by independent weather balloon data sets.
if you had the first clue about scientific discovery you would understand the importance of that fact.
It proves the climate models are a mess



explain how the surface is heating up faster than the troposphere using the greenhouse gas theory ?

you can not

the satellite records are verified by independent weather balloon data sets.
the satellite records are accurate

the surface temperature record is flawed
the ipcc models are junk
garbage in >> garbage out

 

[Frankfooter]

the greenhouse effect occurs almost entirely in the troposphere
& the surface temp record is a god damn mess

So stop being a dishonest dipshit and find projections for climate change in the troposphere and compare those to your satellite measurements.
Then stop being a dipshit by using old, faulty satellite data that stops in 2015.

Or, tell the people of India to move to the troposphere where its 6ºC cooler.
Just get them a massive ladder so they can climb up to the clouds.

Otherwise, admit you're a dishonest dipshit who refuses to compare surface projections to surface temperatures because you know that proves the IPCC is correct and you're just peddling fossil fuel disinformation that will make your kids lives miserable.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1795769215879983549

 

[JohnLarue]

So stop being a dishonest dipshit and find projections for climate change in the troposphere and compare those to your satellite measurements.
Then stop being a dipshit by using old, faulty satellite data that stops in 2015.

yawn

look stupid

the satellite data is verified by independent weather balloon data sets
therefore the satellite data is accurate. verified by separate experiment >>> scientific proof

the greenhouse effect occurs in the troposphere

therefore all you need to do is explain (using scientific fundamentals ) how the greenhouse effect is somehow warming the surface at a faster rate than the troposphere (where the greenhouse effect occurs)?

you can not explain that

the only logical explanation is the surface temperature data record & the models based on it are flawed
we already know the surface temperature data record is

1. filled with errors
2. biased by the urban Island heat effect
3. is woefully incomplete
4. .has been fiddled with

you are a purveyor of bovine scatology and a scientific know nothing

 

[Frankfooter]

the satellite data is verified by independent weather balloon data sets
therefore the satellite data is accurate. verified by separate experiment >>> scientific proof

the greenhouse effect occurs in the troposphere

Wow, you are still acting like a dishonest dipshit, but now an incredibly stupid dipshit.

The IPCC projects changes in surface temperatures and checks those projections with surface temperatures.

If you want to fly a weather balloon 5km up in the sky and report that its not quite so hot up there you are free to do so, but you should also expect to be called an idiot. But if you want to say that because its cooler in the clouds you think the IPCC is wrong, then you're really a total moron.

 

[Frankfooter]

53C in Delhi. Yikes.

I think you'd have a heat stroke in that kind of heat.

Yikes indeed.
Same in Mexico right now.

The planet is hitting wet bulb temperatures where humans can't survive.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/climate/india-2024-heat-wave-1.7218119

Mexico heat dome seeing monkeys drop dead from trees as temperatures rocket

Last week, environmentalists had reported that 138 of the midsize primates, known for their roaring vocal calls, had been found dead in the Gulf coast state of Tabasco since May 16

www.mirror.co.uk

 

[K Douglas]

i respectfully disagree as do Lightfoot and Mamer

View attachment 328087

You may indeed be correct. Houghton 2002 also confirms that.

Greenhouse gases, water vapor and you | MIT Global Change

globalchange.mit.edu

This is where the 50% came from, I should have known better (Schmidt et al 2010)

https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1029/2010JD014287?src=getftr

This of course is alarmist Gavin Schmidt's paper. He's a mathematician. 50% of warming is due to water vapor. 25% is clouds and 20% is CO2. But wait aren't clouds caused by water vapor??

And of course several university climate science depts. have parroted this 50% like its empirical. Wikipedia is even worse it says water vapor accounts for 36%-90% of greenhouse warming. What a joke.

 

[Frankfooter]

You may indeed be correct. Houghton 2002 also confirms that.

Greenhouse gases, water vapor and you | MIT Global Change

globalchange.mit.edu

This is where the 50% came from, I should have known better (Schmidt et al 2010)

https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1029/2010JD014287?src=getftr

This of course is alarmist Gavin Schmidt's paper. He's a mathematician. 50% of warming is due to water vapor. 25% is clouds and 20% is CO2. But wait aren't clouds caused by water vapor??

And of course several university climate science depts. have parroted this 50% like its empirical. Wikipedia is even worse it says water vapor accounts for 36%-90% of greenhouse warming. What a joke.

You realize that article proves that larue is wrong, don't you?

This is consistent with the idea that much of the watervapor and cloud impacts in the climatological greenhouseeffect are feedbacks to the trace greenhouse gas contribu-tions. That implies that were CO 2 to be somehow com-pletely removed from the atmosphere, a large part of theother greenhouse constituents would be reduced as well,producing a cooling much greater than the “no‐feedback”response (at least according to this model). Indeed, a modelsimulation performed with zero GHGs gives a global meantemperature changes of about −35°C and produces an icecovered planet (A. Lacis, personal communication)

 

[JohnLarue]

You may indeed be correct. Houghton 2002 also confirms that.

Greenhouse gases, water vapor and you | MIT Global Change

globalchange.mit.edu

This is where the 50% came from, I should have known better (Schmidt et al 2010)

https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1029/2010JD014287?src=getftr

This of course is alarmist Gavin Schmidt's paper. He's a mathematician. 50% of warming is due to water vapor. 25% is clouds and 20% is CO2. But wait aren't clouds caused by water vapor??

And of course several university climate science depts. have parroted this 50% like its empirical. Wikipedia is even worse it says water vapor accounts for 36%-90% of greenhouse warming. What a joke.

water is natures universal temperature regulator
co2 is a bit player and its absorption capability is saturated

 

[Frankfooter]

water is natures universal temperature regulator
co2 is a bit player and its absorption capability is saturated

Did you read the paper that Kirk posted?
Can you understand it?

 

[JohnLarue]

You realize that article proves that larue is wrong, don't you?

This is consistent with the idea that much of the watervapor and cloud impacts in the climatological greenhouseeffect are feedbacks to the trace greenhouse gas contribu-tions. That implies that were CO 2 to be somehow com-pletely removed from the atmosphere, a large part of theother greenhouse constituents would be reduced as well,producing a cooling much greater than the “no‐feedback”response (at least according to this model). Indeed, a modelsimulation performed with zero GHGs gives a global meantemperature changes of about −35°C and produces an icecovered planet (A. Lacis, personal communication)

my god you are soooooooo stunned
from the same article

That idea leads many to believe that global warming is natural and cannot be affected much by human activity. Reader Roy W. Rising of Valley Village writes: “Today's report focuses on a bundle of gases that comprise a very small part of total of ‘greenhouse’ gases. It totally disregards the long-known fact that about 95% of all ‘greenhouse’ gases is WATER VAPOR! Spending billions of dollars to alter a few components of the 5% won't affect the natural course of climate change.”

how many god damn times can you be so bloody wrong?
still using a tape measure to guess altitude ?
still clueless about where the greenhouse effect occurs ?
still pretending you are not a high school drop out?


get this straight
water is natures universal temperature regulator
co2 is a bit player and its absorption capability is saturated

 

[Frankfooter]

my god you are soooooooo stunned
from the same article

You're lying, larue, that's not in the article I quoted.

Why do you lie so much?

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1795946232864543196

 

[JohnLarue]

You're lying, larue, that's not in the article I quoted.

Why do you lie so much?

it is the same article

K Douglas said:

You may indeed be correct. Houghton 2002 also confirms that.
Greenhouse gases, water vapor and you | MIT Global Change

globalchange.mit.edu
This is where the 50% came from, I should have known better (Schmidt et al 2010)
https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1029/2010JD014287?src=getftr
This of course is alarmist Gavin Schmidt's paper. He's a mathematician. 50% of warming is due to water vapor. 25% is clouds and 20% is CO2. But wait aren't clouds caused by water vapor??

And of course several university climate science depts. have parroted this 50% like its empirical. Wikipedia is even worse it says water vapor accounts for 36%-90% of greenhouse warming. What a joke.

You realize that article proves that larue is wrong, don't you?

why are you wrong all the time ?

That idea leads many to believe that global warming is natural and cannot be affected much by human activity. Reader Roy W. Rising of Valley Village writes: “Today's report focuses on a bundle of gases that comprise a very small part of total of ‘greenhouse’ gases. It totally disregards the long-known fact that about 95% of all ‘greenhouse’ gases is WATER VAPOR! Spending billions of dollars to alter a few components of the 5% won't affect the natural course of climate change.”

 

[Frankfooter]

it is the same article


why are you wrong all the time ?

That's not the article I quoted or that Kirk posted.
That's some newspaper opinion piece.

You really can't tell the difference between science and opinion.
You can't tell the difference between bullshit and reality.
And you can't even keep track of what you post or others post here.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1795783927669375387

 

[JohnLarue]

That's not the article I quoted or that Kirk posted.

yes it is stupid

K Douglas said:
Click to expand...

You may indeed be correct. Houghton 2002 also confirms that.
Greenhouse gases, water vapor and you | MIT Global Change

globalchange.mit.edu
This is where the 50% came from, I should have known better (Schmidt et al 2010)
https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1029/2010JD014287?src=getftr
This of course is alarmist Gavin Schmidt's paper. He's a mathematician. 50% of warming is due to water vapor. 25% is clouds and 20% is CO2. But wait aren't clouds caused by water vapor??

And of course several university climate science depts. have parroted this 50% like its empirical. Wikipedia is even worse it says water vapor accounts for 36%-90% of greenhouse warming. What a joke.
Click to expand...

why are you wrong all the time ?

That idea leads many to believe that global warming is natural and cannot be affected much by human activity. Reader Roy W. Rising of Valley Village writes: “Today's report focuses on a bundle of gases that comprise a very small part of total of ‘greenhouse’ gases. It totally disregards the long-known fact that about 95% of all ‘greenhouse’ gases is WATER VAPOR! Spending billions of dollars to alter a few components of the 5% won't affect the natural course of climate change.”

You really can't tell the difference between science and opinion.

sure i can
i can also tell the difference between science and propaganda

You can't tell the difference between bullshit and reality.

you spew the bullshit and do so with the intention of misleading others

And you can't even keep track of what you post or others post here.

i was able to keep track of what K Douglas posted, when you failed at that simple task

That's not the article I quoted or that Kirk posted.

K Douglas said:

Greenhouse gases, water vapor and you | MIT Global Change

globalchange.mit.edu

That idea leads many to believe that global warming is natural and cannot be affected much by human activity. Reader Roy W. Rising of Valley Village writes: “Today's report focuses on a bundle of gases that comprise a very small part of total of ‘greenhouse’ gases. It totally disregards the long-known fact that about 95% of all ‘greenhouse’ gases is WATER VAPOR! Spending billions of dollars to alter a few components of the 5% won't affect the natural course of climate change.”

no one takes you seriously on common sense issues let alone scientific matters


what you post here is guaranteed to be bullshit propaganda
go sit in the corner with your dunce cap on

 

[Frankfooter]

sure i can
i can also tell the difference between science and propaganda

No you can't.
You posted a newspaper opinion piece as if it were a science paper.
You're a total fool.

You lie constantly, can't figure out the fundamentals and can't read a single scientific paper.

 

[JohnLarue]

No you can't.
You posted a newspaper opinion piece as if it were a science paper.
You're a total fool.

You lie constantly, can't figure out the fundamentals and can't read a single scientific paper.

too funny

you got confused by altitude expressed in pressure
you would be totally lost reading a real scientific paper they contain fuzzy math which confuses you and tend to focus on the troposphere, which confuses you because ........ you live on the surface, despite having been informed many times the greenhouse effect occurs almost entirely in the troposphere

you are the fool because you think you can fool others
the reality is watching you trying to pretend to have scientific understanding is like watching a turtle that has been flipped on its back
it is assuming for a while but it just becomes cruel

 

[JohnLarue]

a government agency, Statistics Norway, has published the manuscript “To what extent are temperature levels changing due to greenhouse gas emissions?

https://www.ssb.no/natur-og-miljo/forurensning-og-klima/artikler/i-hvilken-grad-endrer-temperaturnivaet-seg-pa-grunn-av-klimagassutslipp/_/attachment/inline/5a3f4a9b-3bc3-4988-9579-9fea82944264:f63064594b9225f9d7dc458b0b70a646baec3339/DP1007.pdf

we review key properties of global climate models and statistical analyses conducted by others on the ability of the global climate models to track historical temperatures. These tests show that standard climate models are rejected by time series data on global temperatures. Finally, we update and extend previous statistical analysis of temperature data (Dagsvik et al., 2020). Using theoretical arguments and statistical tests we find, as in Dagsvik et al. (2020), that the effect of man-made CO2 emissions does not appear to be strong enough to cause systematic changes in the temperature fluctuations during the last 200 years.

temperature, as a temporal process, appears to have cycles that can last for decades (long memory), if not hundreds of years. It is for precisely this reason that even such a prolonged increase in recent observed temperature series should not simply be interpreted as a trend leading to permanent climate change

The GCMs have various limitations. First, the effect of increasing CO2 emissions on the climate cannot be evaluated precisely on time scales that are of the order of less than or equal to 100 years. Second, there is a lack of knowledge of the uncertainty which is partly due to the choice of the subscale models and the parameterization and calibration of these, as well as insufficient data. Third, according to some evaluations, GCMs are not sufficiently reliable to distinguish between natural and man-made causes of the temperature increase in the 20th century

GCMs are typically evaluated applying the same observations used to calibrate the model parameters. In an article in Science, Voosen (2016) writes; “Indeed, whether climate scientists like to admit it or not, nearly every model has been calibrated precisely to the 20th century climate records – otherwise it would have ended up in the trash”. Unfortunately, models that match 20th century data as a result of calibration using the same 20th century data are of dubious quality for determining the causes of the 20th century temperature variability.

i.e. climate models are shite

we have summarized recent work on statistical analyses on the ability of the GCMs to track historical temperature data. These studies have demonstrated that the time series of the difference between the global temperature and the corresponding hindcast from the GCMs is non-stationary. Thus, these studies raise serious doubts about whether the GCMs are able to distinguish natural variations in temperatures from variations caused by man-made emissions of CO2.

i.e. climate models are still shite

In other words, our analysis indicates that with the current level of knowledge, it seems impossible to determine how much of the temperature increase is due to emissions of CO2.