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SchlongConery

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Jan 28, 2013
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Speaking of bets and coin flips.

Anyone have any idea who skoob used to be? Trolls like this don't just pop up outta nowhere.
 
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Skoob

Well-known member
Jun 1, 2022
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No.
I'm just genuinely surprised there is a solid "1/8 are wrong" number.
I'm not even sure how it would be measured with any certainty.

I'm sure there is some kind of "1/8 of X judgments" are wrong or "are contradicted by Y" or something.

I just find your original statement very surprising and would like to know what it is based on.



No, that isn't the same as flipping a coin.
You seem to have very little faith in the justice system.
If you do a google search about the frequency that juries get it wrong, you'll find the info you're looking for.

It's flipping a coin in the context that it's her word against his. No other first-hand witnesses. He said, she said. Could go either way in civil court.

Take the current #metoo climate, disdain by Dems for Trump, his wealth, etc etc...which way do you think it would have gone? How do you think it would have gone if it took place in criminal court?
 

Skoob

Well-known member
Jun 1, 2022
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Speaking of bets and coin flips.

Anyone have any idea who skoob used to be? Trolls like this don't just pop up outta nowhere.
Name calling on a message board makes you look weak and childish.
Obsessing about my identity is just creepy.
But thanks for thinking about me.
 
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Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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If you do a google search about the frequency that juries get it wrong, you'll find the info you're looking for.

It's flipping a coin in the context that it's her word against his. No other first-hand witnesses. He said, she said. Could go either way in civil court.

Take the current #metoo climate, disdain by Dems for Trump, his wealth, etc etc...which way do you think it would have gone? How do you think it would have gone if it took place in criminal court?
So this was another 'stat' that you just made up based on your feelings?
 

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
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If you do a google search about the frequency that juries get it wrong, you'll find the info you're looking for.
No, I wouldn't.

I can guess you might be referring to the Spencer report (http://www.northwestern.edu/ipr/publications/papers/2006/wp0605.pdf) but not only is that far from the only study of the issue, it is also almost 20 years old.

It's flipping a coin in the context that it's her word against his. No other first-hand witnesses. He said, she said. Could go either way in civil court.
That's also not flipping a coin.
Do you understand probability?

Take the current #metoo climate, disdain by Dems for Trump, his wealth, etc etc...which way do you think it would have gone? How do you think it would have gone if it took place in criminal court?
I suspect he would have been acquitted in criminal court.
The system is designed to let guilty people go free in order to err on the side of caution.
It is understood and expected that guilty people walk in criminal court.
The system is designed that way on purpose.
 

Skoob

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I suspect he would have been acquitted in criminal court.
The system is designed to let guilty people go free in order to err on the side of caution.
It is understood and expected that guilty people walk in criminal court.
The system is designed that way on purpose.
Sounds like a conspiracy theory no?
 

Skoob

Well-known member
Jun 1, 2022
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So this was another 'stat' that you just made up based on your feelings?
You think I would just pick a stat out of the air like you do?
Don't be lazy...look it up for yourself.

In 2007, Northwestern conducted a study. Nothing would have changed since then to significantly change jury behaviour.
Lots of info out there on jury bias, etc.

Maybe get off your welfare-collecting butt and put in some effort to educate yourself before going on the attack.
 

Skoob

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No. It is one of the fundamental principles of the right to life, liberty and to be free from unjust persecution.

Better ten guilty men go free than one innocent man have his life or liberty taken.
The burden of proof is much higher in criminal court than civil court.
It's not designed to let guilty people go free as Valcazar suggested. It does happen sometimes when there is insufficient proof but that's not how it was purposely designed.

If someone is to be convicted of a crime, there needs to be proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

If a jury is biased or unable to process the information properly it can lead to guilty or not guilty verdicts as well.

But the system was designed to ensure someone is either rightfully convicted or not convicted. No system is perfect of course.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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You think I would just pick a stat out of the air like you do?
Don't be lazy...look it up for yourself.

In 2007, Northwestern conducted a study. Nothing would have changed since then to significantly change jury behaviour.
Lots of info out there on jury bias, etc.

Maybe get off your welfare-collecting butt and put in some effort to educate yourself before going on the attack.
Nothing you post is trustworthy, skoob.
If you can't back it up, then its clear you're bullshitting again.
 
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Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
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Sounds like a conspiracy theory no?
You think the concept of "innocent until proven guilty" is a conspiracy theory?

No. It is one of the fundamental principles of the right to life, liberty and to be free from unjust persecution.

Better ten guilty men go free than one innocent man have his life or liberty taken.
Exactly.
Now, there is a lot to be said about how well that principle is upheld without money to afford all the due process you are legally allowed, but the basic idea is well known and taught in elementary school still, I think.
 

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
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You think I would just pick a stat out of the air like you do?
Don't be lazy...look it up for yourself.

In 2007, Northwestern conducted a study. Nothing would have changed since then to significantly change jury behaviour.
Why would you believe that?
Even if you think the methodology was sound.
 

Knuckle Ball

Well-known member
Oct 15, 2017
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You think I would just pick a stat out of the air like you do?
Don't be lazy...look it up for yourself.

In 2007, Northwestern conducted a study. Nothing would have changed since then to significantly change jury behaviour.
Lots of info out there on jury bias, etc.

Maybe get off your welfare-collecting butt and put in some effort to educate yourself before going on the attack.
For the record, if you are going to make a claim here in the Politics Section it is expected that you will provide a link/reference to whatever source you believe supports your point of view.

If you want to offer your own opinion you are of course welcome to do so but none of us are under any obligation to take you seriously unless you provide actual evidence to support what you are claiming.

None of us are under any obligation to disprove your n̶o̶n̶s̶e̶n̶s̶e̶…errrr…point of view. The obligation is on you to prove it.

kapish?
 
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Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
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The burden of proof is much higher in criminal court than civil court.
It's not designed to let guilty people go free as Valcazar suggested. It does happen sometimes when there is insufficient proof but that's not how it was purposely designed.
Yes, it was purposely designed to make the burden very high, with the understanding that it is better that a guilty person go free than an innocent one be punished with the full power of the state.
No one denies this.

If someone is to be convicted of a crime, there needs to be proof beyond a reasonable doubt.
Yes.
This is the standard set.
Again, if the full power of the State is to be used to deprive you of life and liberty, the standard should be extremely high.
Even if reasonable people agree it is most likely you committed the crime, that isn't enough to bring the apparatus of the State to bear.

This is also why you can still get redress in civil court - because it is understood that people should be able to hold you to account despite the limitations of government power.

If a jury is biased or unable to process the information properly it can lead to guilty or not guilty verdicts as well.

But the system was designed to ensure someone is either rightfully convicted or not convicted. No system is perfect of course.
It absolutely isn't perfect.
This hedge against state power was reached as an attempt to deal with the issue and other countries have come up with different approaches.
 

Skoob

Well-known member
Jun 1, 2022
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For the record, if you are going to make a claim here in the Politics Section it is expected that you will provide a link/reference to whatever source you believe supports your point of view.

If you want to offer your own opinion you are of course welcome to do so but none of us are under any obligation to take you seriously unless you provide actual evidence to support what you are claiming.

None of us are under any obligation to disprove your n̶o̶n̶s̶e̶n̶s̶e̶…errrr…point of view. The obligation is on you to prove it.

kapish?
Sounds like what laziness would sound like if it could speak.

Here...there's this thing called the "internet" and a website called "Google". Based on the info I provided, people who discover the wonders of how to operate a web search would simply type in what I shared and voila! Like pure magic, you would find exactly what I was referring to. No tricks or engineering degree required.

Because I feel generous I'll even provide instructions:

1) subscribe to an internet service from the provider of your choice or go to a library and borrow one of their computers (those things that look like TV's)
2) double click the icon that looks like a multi-coloured circle named "Google Chrome"
3) It will open to a screen that has a white square with a blinking cursor within it...don't be afraid...we can get through this together!
4) Use that thing with a bunch of buttons on it each labelled with letters, numbers and symbols and type: "2007 Northwestern jury accuracy study"
5) Press the Enter key...usually the one labelled "Enter"...you can use a single finger to do this...sometimes two...in your case, since you have small hands, I would suggest three.
6) Observe the list of items presented which apply to the topic at hand...read away and educate yourself!

Congratulations! If you've made it this far I assume you found what you're looking for!

You're welcome!
 
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