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The future of housing? Your opinions

southpaw

Well-known member
May 21, 2002
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Okay that is your recommendation. But is 250K reasonable? There is no objective analysis on what is reasonable and what isn't
250K per year was the level for two decades before Trudeau came to power. And we didn't have the problems that we do now.

You need to commission a study? That 100 million target by 2100 that you tout is from McKinsey. They get paid for these studies. Not exactly unbiased.

Of course they're going to recommend increasing the population. It means more customers for them and their clients.

GDP goes up. Doesn't mean GDP per capita does. What about the standard of living? No one can afford a house. Healthcare wait times grow longer.

But what do you care?
 

JohnLarue

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2005
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A rambling non-response.
you say that a lot when confronted with the facts of the matter

your concept of reasonable is very unreasonable.
still want to tax/ steal rich folks money at 95 to 99% ?
still favour state sponsor assassinations on Canadian soil ?
 

lomotil

Well-known member
Mar 14, 2004
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Oblivion
If they are such a net positive, why are living standards and overall wealth going down?
The productivity in Canada is declining coupled with rampant inflation, cost of living increases and Income levels not rising as an offset which is the answer.
And without immigration the situation would be even worse. Deport all the immigrants that came to Canada in the past five years and the Canadian economy would essentially collapse.
There are many able bodied Canadians on social assistance who could work but choose not to just because, a resource that could reduce immigration levels somewhat also.
 

oil&gas

Well-known member
Apr 16, 2002
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Ghawar
.........................
And without immigration the situation would be even worse. Deport all the immigrants that came to Canada in the past five years and the Canadian economy would essentially collapse.
................................
That is no justification of an excessively high volume
of immigrants admitted into the country like nearly 1 million
in one year. People are not demanding our government to
shut down immigration altogether let alone deport all immigrants.
 

Kautilya

It Doesn't Matter What You Think!
May 12, 2023
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you say that a lot when confronted with the facts of the matter

your concept of reasonable is very unreasonable.
still want to tax/ steal rich folks money at 95 to 99% ?
still favour state sponsor assassinations on Canadian soil ?
What facts of the matter did you confront me with? Here is what you said:
that not what you said,
so you did not use common sense
reality is not your friend
a multitude of potential causes for low density populations proves nothing
targets are not reality
there will be an election and policy change
your concept of unreasonable is very unreasonable.
still want to steal rich folks money at 95 to 99% ?
Read the post you are responding to, and read your response What facts have you presented here? None.

Your only point was that there is an election and possible policy change - okay. May be for 2026, but we dont know that for sure. We dont even know who will win. And your response to my question about why certain countries with lower population densities still had very low development, pretty much proved that POPULATION has nothing to do with living standards, which is the point I was making.
250K per year was the level for two decades before Trudeau came to power. And we didn't have the problems that we do now.

You need to commission a study? That 100 million target by 2100 that you tout is from McKinsey. They get paid for these studies. Not exactly unbiased.

Of course they're going to recommend increasing the population. It means more customers for them and their clients.

GDP goes up. Doesn't mean GDP per capita does. What about the standard of living? No one can afford a house. Healthcare wait times grow longer.

But what do you care?
Well, McKinsey is a great consulting firm. Their methods are robust. And how can you commission a study without paying someone?

How do we also know that going back to immigration numbers from 2 decades ago, will resolve current problems? I also brought up the point of doing a cost benefit/impact analysis of drastically cutting immigration on not just housing but everything else such as GDP, consumption, production, productivity, labor shortages, market size for all industries, tax revenue, funding social services etc.

For example, suddenly cutting huge numbers of immigrants, may result in builders actually stopping current projects because there will be no one to rent them to. What happens then? Your housing crisis still persists or gets worse. You and JL are making this assumption that the supply will remain steady, but they are impacted by market forces. You say hospital wait times are higher, but it is also true that we have a shortage of doctors and other healthcare staff to the extent that the express entry draws, have special draws these days focused on healthcare staff. So cutting immigration may actually make wait times even worse.

Further, are housing and healthcare wait times the only problems? No. So it seems to me that a more thorough analysis needs to be done, in order to truly understand next steps.

Regardless of all this, the root causes of all these issues are that we are not building enough houses, and do not have enough hospitals doctors and other healthcare staff. It is a supply side issue and therefore I believe the focus needs to be on boosting supply rather than cutting immigrants who we desperately need.
If they are such a net positive, why are living standards and overall wealth going down?
Living standards and overall wealth, are NOT going down. They are infact going UP. So this statement is untrue.

Screenshot at May 04 10-37-36.png
 
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JohnLarue

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2005
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I think they should go back to to high corporate tax rates. If both Nations did it, with the old tax incentive breaks for research, equipment upgrades, payroll and benefits to employees, it would limit the stupidity of "next quarter" myopic business thinking.
Canada absolutely needs to be competitive vs. the U.S. wrt to corporate tax rates
The U.S. corporate tax rates wont be be determined by what Canada does

old tax incentive breaks for research, equipment upgrades,
these still exist - Capital cost allowance
the left calls these "subsidies" and want to eliminate Capital cost allowance for select industries, that is "next quarter election " myopic business political thinking

Canadian business does not invest enough and it shows in our declining productivity per capita
that is a real big problem

payroll and benefits to employees,
Canada has a high tax burden on payrolls

the stupidity of "next quarter" myopic business thinking.
if "next quarter" myopic business thinking starts to impact the ability to generate operational earnings / cash flow generation , the stock market will punish "next quarter" myopic business thinking
 
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DesRicardo

Well-known member
Dec 2, 2022
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The productivity in Canada is declining coupled with rampant inflation, cost of living increases and Income levels not rising as an offset which is the answer.
And without immigration the situation would be even worse. Deport all the immigrants that came to Canada in the past five years and the Canadian economy would essentially collapse.
There are many able bodied Canadians on social assistance who could work but choose not to just because, a resource that could reduce immigration levels somewhat also.
All those issues come coupled with high immigration.

And immigration doesn't have to be an "All or Nothing" game. Some can go back.

What gets at me the most is even with the increase in immigration, these so called "economist" still say we have a labour gap. How? They've brought in like 4x the traditional number of people and you still can't find adequate labour? They don't know what they are talking about.
 

JohnLarue

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2005
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Read the post you are responding to, and read your response What facts have you presented here? None.
too funny
if i have presented no facts then how could I have proven your point?

Right. So population has nothing to do with it. Thanks for proving my point
you are not very bright
 

JohnLarue

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2005
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All those issues come coupled with high immigration.

And immigration doesn't have to be an "All or Nothing" game. Some can go back.

What gets at me the most is even with the increase in immigration, these so called "economist" still say we have a labour gap. How? They've brought in like 4x the traditional number of people and you still can't find adequate labour? They don't know what they are talking about.
still can't find adequate skilled labour?

economists do know what they are taking about
immigration needs to be more targeted to people with in demand skills, rather than high volumes
 

Kautilya

It Doesn't Matter What You Think!
May 12, 2023
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too funny
if i have presented no facts then how could I have proven your point?

you are not very bright
LOL. By proving my point, you shot down your own criticism of an increased population. And you don't even realize it. Too funny! 😂
 

JohnLarue

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2005
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Living standards and overall wealth, are NOT going down. They are infact going UP. So this statement is untrue.

View attachment 321902
inflation has most certainly impacted Living standards and overall wealth
So his statement is true.

mean family income is not definitive without viewing the cost of living
Argentina household income in nominal terms has also increased
the cost of living has increased at a much faster rate


1714835002521.png
1714835340589.png


you really do not understand economics do you?
where did you study and fail to learn economics?
 

JohnLarue

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2005
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LOL. By proving my point, you shot down your own criticism of an increased population. And you don't even realize it. Too funny! 😂

but you said i provided no facts
so how could i have "shot down your own criticism of an increased population" ?

you are not very bright
 

Kautilya

It Doesn't Matter What You Think!
May 12, 2023
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inflation has most certainly impacted Living standards and overall wealth
So his statement is true.
These interest rate hikes and inflation are very recent events, which will get better shortly. However it is demonstrably true that Canadian wealth, incomes and living standards have steadily improved over the years.
but you said i provided no facts
so how could i have "shot down your own criticism of an increased population" ?

you are not very bright
You provided no facts to support YOUR positions. You said that a high population was a "nightmare". Then proceeded to provide facts that disproved your own statement. So yeah, if you dont want to differentiate between whose position you defended, fine, you did provide facts. But if you are talking about bolstering your own argument with facts, you did not.
 

JohnLarue

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2005
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These interest rate hikes and inflation are very recent events, which will get better shortly. However it is demonstrably true that Canadian wealth, incomes and living standards have steadily improved over the years.
which will get better shortly?
you do not know that with any degree of certainty, pure speculation on your part

standards of living are tied to productivity & Canadas productivity per capita is declining relative to our competitors

we do not need more per capita. (human volumes)
we need more productivity per capita

The length of inflation cycles in the past have been different, depending on the root cause, says Art Hogan, managing director and chief market strategist at B. Riley Financial.

The longest period occurred starting in the mid-1970s and lasted about a decade, he says.

Determining how long inflation will last is tricky, says Guy LeBas, chief fixed income strategist and portfolio manager at Janney, a Philadelphia-based financial institution.

“The road from here to there is messy and it is hard to guess where services spending is going to go,” he says. “We are really bad at predicting inflation.”

The economy can rebound after periods of higher inflation. However, inflation can also precede a recession, which was the case in the 1970s.
 

jalimon

Well-known member
Jan 10, 2016
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If they are such a net positive, why are living standards and overall wealth going down?
Great question indeed.

Our standard of living is going down primarily due to a lack of housing. This led to overpriced houses and crazy renting prices. Adding 1 million immigrants to a country with a huge housing shortage and expecting that things turn good is beyond stupid. We all pay for it.

Now don't start me about our taxes ;) But you know what it's not taxes that put people in the street. The poor hardly pay taxes. It's lack of a having a basic salary that could put a roof on their head.

The situation was different 10 years ago. Now I would say to any immigrant from a warm country thinking about coming to canada... Don't!! Misery is much more enjoyable under the sun.
 

Kautilya

It Doesn't Matter What You Think!
May 12, 2023
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JohnLarue

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2005
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Well inflation has actually gone down to 2.9% from a high of 8% in 2022. The Bank of Canada has also said that they are going to cut rates soon. This would contradict your assertions.
too funny
both the fed and the BofC have been walking back their number of projected cuts and pushing out the timing of projected rate cuts for the last 6 months

the inflation dragon has not been slayed

In March 2024, prices had increased by 3.5 percent compared to March 2023 according to the 12-month percentage change in the consumer price index — the monthly inflation rate for goods and services in the United States. The data represents U.S. city averages.Apr 15, 2024
getting back to the 2% target is going to be very challenging
 

Kautilya

It Doesn't Matter What You Think!
May 12, 2023
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too funny
both the fed and the BofC have been walking back their number of projected cuts and pushing out the timing of projected rate cuts for the last 6 months

the inflation dragon has not been slayed

getting back to the 2% target is going to be very challenging
6 months is a very short duration in the grand scheme of things, especially to address a macro economic issue, that is impacted by multiple domestic and global factors. It will get there eventually. If it can get from 8% to 2.9%, it can get down to 2%.
 

southpaw

Well-known member
May 21, 2002
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Well, McKinsey is a great consulting firm. Their methods are robust.
How gullible. And if others don't share your gullibility, you call them racist.
McKinsey has been the subject of significant controversy related to its business practices. The company has been criticized for its role promoting OxyContin use during the opioid crisis in North America, its work with Enron, and its work for authoritarian regimes like Saudi Arabia and Russia.
 
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