The future of housing? Your opinions

[SchlongConery]

This quick Aussie short really sums it up.

And it doesn't include municipal development charges,

Essentially demand continues to grow faster than housing is built, prices are outpacing wages etc.

I yhink we need to re-assess our "needs". The 4 bedroom suburban home with living rom, family room, formal dining room and Sistine Chepel Grand Entrance seem pretentiously wasteful.

Smaller, European style low rise seem to be a nice transitional path to smaller home footprints.

How’s that housing crisis going? #economy #property #rent #construction

youtube.com

 

[anon1]

Wait for the titans of industry and finance, and all the anti-woke culture warriors to show up and tell you how eeeeeverything is because of immigrants and reducing immigration to ZERO and sterilizing everyone to bring population growth to a grinding halt, is going to drastically reduce demand and fix all of your housing problems for the rest of eternity.

or start another world war.

 

[Kusa]

Quite often supply is contingent upon purchasing power, and it's the lower-income earners who face the housing challenges. Consider the full occupancy of newly constructed housing is at 100%. In suburban homes often families of four in six-bedroom houses, leading to wasted space and unnecessary energy consumption.

In the end sometimes affordability is based on opportunity cost - the total satisfaction or value that one gets from consuming a particular product or service.

 

[Butler1000]

The problem is two fold. The first is the drvelopers have no interest in building affordable housing, even under govt contract. It's not worth it.

The second is the main value is in the land. And there is now a finite amount in Toronto. So "affordable housing" won't be.

The only solution is govt built, rent controlled housing. Whether fully built by the govt, or by mandating larger amounts in new build condos.

But the days of the starter home are over. We are a major international metropolis now. Financial center, seat of Govt. Tech hub, tourist destination, and more. We are now in a spot between Chicago and New York in North American relevance. And as such the housing will always be expensive now.

 

[Frankfooter]

Quite often supply is contingent upon purchasing power, and it's the lower-income earners who face the housing challenges. Consider the full occupancy of newly constructed housing is at 100%. In suburban homes often families of four in six-bedroom houses, leading to wasted space and unnecessary energy consumption.

In the end sometimes affordability is based on opportunity cost - the total satisfaction or value that one gets from consuming a particular product or service.

Except its not just low income people who can't afford million dollar housing.
Even condos are beyond a lot of people.

DoFo cut rental protection and is against quadraplexes, really what we need is more densification and the start of euro style apartment/condo living.

 

[Kusa]

Except its not just low income people who can't afford million dollar housing.
Even condos are beyond a lot of people.

DoFo cut rental protection and is against quadraplexes, really what we need is more densification and the start of euro style apartment/condo living.

Can't argue with that!

 

[jalimon]

Except its not just low income people who can't afford million dollar housing.
Even condos are beyond a lot of people.

DoFo cut rental protection and is against quadraplexes, really what we need is more densification and the start of euro style apartment/condo living.

So much agree.

We need to start thinking differently. Over the last 10 years, I have worked with colleagues in the Netherlands, Portugal, Spain, and the UK. All of these colleagues got a property out of a government-funded program.

How it works is the government buys run-down buildings that no one wants anymore. They renovate, using their government workers, and sell it to particulars. When you buy such units what you spend on renovation will be counted but you cannot resell the unit. If you need to resell (if you need to move to another city or country) you can only resell to the government.

We will need to get to such social housing program over here to overcome the crisis. There are so many empty buildings that would benefit from such programs.

 

[NotADcotor]

Wait for the titans of industry and finance, and all the anti-woke culture warriors to show up and tell you how eeeeeverything is because of immigrants and reducing immigration to ZERO and sterilizing everyone to bring population growth to a grinding halt, is going to drastically reduce demand and fix all of your housing problems for the rest of eternity.

Anyway, to answer the question, it is Occam's Razor.

We don't have enough houses. Infact we build less houses today than we did in 1971, when the population was HALF of what it is today. (20M). And this lag in housing is not a recent development either. It has been going on for 50 years.

So the solution is to build new houses. Saying labor costs went up and raw material cost has gone up in my opinion is not reasonable because, there will always be an upward trend in labor and material cost. It has always been that way.

Zoning, permitting, taxation and many other supply side issues need to be sorted and housing development encouraged. That is the solid longer term solution. Near term, I think fixing or atleast starting to fix supply side issues along with reducing temp workers and students in Canada, will both address supply side issues, while easing demand side pressures.

But we are not building houses, so having extra population from any source just makes the problem worse. If we were pulling a South Korea for the past 20 years with a replacement rate of 0.6 or 0.8 and no immigration to speak of than the lack of new construction wouldn't be an issue.

It's just reality.

Granted if we actually let builders build, things like not fucking banning quadplexes and letting NIMBY cunts get their way
if we were to do something about the labour issue [for which targeted immigration is a solution
if we were to stop treating landlords like bitches

then we could sustain loads of immigration and fuck like bunnies bareback

But shit ain't like that, and based on election promises shit won't be like that.

 

[NotADcotor]

So much agree.

We need to start thinking differently. Over the last 10 years, I have worked with colleagues in the Netherlands, Portugal, Spain, and the UK. All of these colleagues got a property out of a government-funded program.

How it works is the government buys run-down buildings that no one wants anymore. They renovate, using their government workers, and sell it to particulars. When you buy such units what you spend on renovation will be counted but you cannot resell the unit. If you need to resell (if you need to move to another city or country) you can only resell to the government.

We will need to get to such social housing program over here to overcome the crisis. There are so many empty buildings that would benefit from such programs.

If you didn't fuck over landlords so much, you wouldn't need the government to buy run down buildings
I know a guy who is owed 7 grand by his tenant, they basically told him to pay him off. No wonder people don't want to fix up run down buildings. It's not just him, it's been in the news. I am by adoption related to someone who does this also, just flat out tells his landlord to fuck off. One time he took a payment still refused to leave, he got booted, my bro thinks he must of fucked up real bad for that to happen.
But sure incentives don't matter, whatever.

Also government buy buildings, use government workers. Fuck man. Why am I even bothering.

 

[jalimon]

If you didn't fuck over landlords so much, you wouldn't need the government to buy run down buildings
I know a guy who is owed 7 grand by his tenant, they basically told him to pay him off. No wonder people don't want to fix up run down buildings. It's not just him, it's been in the news. I am by adoption related to someone who does this also, just flat out tells his landlord to fuck off. One time he took a payment still refused to leave, he got booted, my bro thinks he must of fucked up real bad for that to happen.
But sure incentives don't matter, whatever.

Also government buy buildings, use government workers. Fuck man. Why am I even bothering.

As I wrote we need to think differently. I have owned buildings. I still own one actually (but now a 3-unit commercial one) that was empty from 2020 to 2023. I know what I am talking about.

Back 10 years ago I had a residential 6 units. One dude did not pay for like 4 months. I removed his door When he complained I hire a private security firm to send 2 guy to check what was his problem. He finally left without paying. But that episode told me I was not cut for this and sold the building.

Right now no entrepreneur will build anything else but single homes or luxury condo complex. Building something to fix the housing crisis is the last thing in their mind.

So we need our government to step in and hire staff (at good conditions because privately many construction workers are not that well treated) and renovate older buildings.

To be honest I never thought we would, in Canada, reach such a point.

If you do not agree just make sure you do not complain if you see tents in every park and homeless just outside your residence that scares you out to talk a walk at night.

 

[JohnLarue]

Wait for the titans of industry and finance, and all the anti-woke culture warriors to show up and tell you how eeeeeverything is because of immigrants and reducing immigration to ZERO and sterilizing everyone to bring population growth to a grinding halt, is going to drastically reduce demand and fix all of your housing problems for the rest of eternity.

anti-woke culture warriors ?????

so you do have a problem with the application of common sense
and you have a need to define eeeeeverything in terms of political correctness

Anyway, to answer the question, it is Occam's Razor.

We don't have enough houses

.
no, we do not have enough houses for todays population growth , which is driven by excessive immigration

Infact we build less houses today than we did in 1971, when the population was HALF of what it is today. (20M). And this lag in housing is not a recent development either. It has been going on for 50 years.

rate of population growth today is much greater than 1971
rate of immigration growth today is much greater than 1971

So the solution is to build new houses. Saying labor costs went up and raw material cost has gone up in my opinion is not reasonable because, there will always be an upward trend in labor and material cost. It has always been that way.

your opinion is worthless as it is biased from word go once immigration is factored into the equation

this has been shown to you yet you ignore the facts of the matter
to fix the affordability problem 5.8 million new homes would be needed by 2030

7 years not enough to build the millions of homes needed to fix affordability, warns economist

Canada has no chance of building millions of homes CMHC says is needed to fix housing affordability in 7 years, an economist says. Read on.

financialpost.com

Last year, CMHC said a total of 5.8 million homes would be needed by 2030 to restore affordability, which worked out to 3.5 million additional units on top of their projection that the housing stock would grow by 2.3 million units if building continued as usual.

“You’re going to compress 30 years of home building into seven years … it’s not gonna happen,” Jean told the audience.

''it’s not gonna happen,”

Zoning, permitting, taxation and many other supply side issues need to be sorted and housing development encouraged. That is the solid longer term solution. Near term, I think fixing or atleast starting to fix supply side issues along with reducing temp workers and students in Canada, will both address supply side issues, while easing demand side pressures.

even trying to accelerate building at that pace will drive inflation
go ahead and remove red tape (get sued for your efforts as Doug Ford did) but housing starts can only increase at a rate the construction industry can digest
it can not digest 30 years of home building in seven years

this problem requires significant reductions in population growth driven by the number of people entering the country
every new comer needs shelter & every new comer adds incrementally to the problem so no need to segregate out temp workers and students in Canada,

all this has been presented to you before, but you just ignore it all because of your bias.

perhaps its time you listen to some people in industry and finance, and anti-woke culture warriors instead of wrapping yourself in a woke cocoon

 

[JohnLarue]

Exhibit A.

what part of ''it’s not gonna happen,” has you so confused ?

 

[TomFord1980]

This quick Aussie short really sums it up.

And it doesn't include municipal development charges,

Essentially demand continues to grow faster than housing is built, prices are outpacing wages etc.

I yhink we need to re-assess our "needs". The 4 bedroom suburban home with living rom, family room, formal dining room and Sistine Chepel Grand Entrance seem pretentiously wasteful.

Smaller, European style low rise seem to be a nice transitional path to smaller home footprints.

How’s that housing crisis going? #economy #property #rent #construction

youtube.com

So lower our standards is the answer? Man thankfully not many people in Canada think like you my man. How about limit immigration into Canada until things are figured out?

 

[TomFord1980]

The part where a guy called JohnLarue who doesn't know anything about any topic speaks with such certainty about the future!

You must own a condo and do not own any land Kautilya my boy. Otherwise you wouldnt be advocating for people living in cubicles.

 

[TomFord1980]

I did not advocate for people living anywhere. It's their choice. I personally prefer condos.

Im in a condo myself as i did not want to cut the grass anymore. However i spent most of my life in a house with a fair bit of land. A young guy like you should do the same. I see so many young guys in my condo who look so miserable, always glued to their phone, they dont like conversation. I bet if they had a taste of the simple country life it would be a different story.

However, the canadian government wants to put these young men in condos. No wonder nobody wants to have kids in Canada anymore.

 

[TomFord1980]

or start another world war.

Its in progress... to dumb it down, its NATO vs BRICS. It wont be pretty. Somebodys getting nuked. Hopefully not North America.

 

[JohnLarue]

The part where a guy called JohnLarue who doesn't know anything about any topic speaks with such certainty about the future!

it’s not gonna happen, is what the the chief economist of Desjardins Group. said

“You’re going to compress 30 years of home building into seven years … it’s not gonna happen,” Jean told the audience.

so again, what part of ' it’s not gonna happen' has you so confused ?

only a blithering fool would think he can wave his magic loonie left wand and increase housing construction by 130 %

your supply side solution is ' it’s not gonna happen'
therefore the focus needs to shift to the demand side of the equation
All immigration needs to be scaled back significantly

 

[bazokajoe]

It does not have to be compressed or solved in 7 years because there is no such thing as "solving" the problem. The only thing you need to do is take steps to build more houses because we need more houses so that the situation gets better over a long period of time.

Reducing population has far reaching impacts in every industry including productivity, pensions and social welfare.

So stopping immigration to tackle ONE minor factor amongst several that are causing problems in ONE area is an overtly simplified proposition that is not based in any real world cost benefit/impact analysis.

So 1 million immigrants a year is a minor factor?

 

[JohnLarue]

It does not have to be compressed or solved in 7 years because there is no such thing as "solving" the problem. The only thing you need to do is take steps to build more houses because we need more houses so that the situation gets better over a long period of time.

doom a generation of young Canadians to living in their parents basement because you refuse to acknowledge the root cause of our excessive population growth?
wrong

Reducing population has far reaching impacts in every industry including productivity, pensions and social welfare.

wtf
unsustainable population growth has far reaching impacts on inflation, housing, infrastructure needs and health care capacity


nobody is talking about reducing population
slowing the current unsustainable population growth rate via reduced immigration is required
do not worry Canadian couples are humping away to crate more taxpayers as we speak

btw mass immigration has not addressed Canada productivity issues, which it should have

So stopping immigration to tackle ONE minor factor amongst several that are causing problems in ONE area is an overtly simplified proposition that is not based in any real world cost benefit/impact analysis.

its not a minor factor
access to affordable housing is the most important issue facing Canadians after 1, reducing the cost of everyday items like groceries and 2. inflation

Affordability is top concern for Canadians as Parliament resumes: poll - National | Globalnews.ca

Affordability issues are front of mind for Canadians as Parliament resumes for the winter sitting, and immigration has joined the top issues, according to Ipsos.

globalnews.ca

Polling by Ipsos exclusively for Global News found that 49 per cent of Canadians say that reducing the cost of everyday items like groceries is their top concern and what they want parliamentarians to focus on in the new session of Parliament. This is closely followed by inflation and interest rates (45 per cent) and access to affordable housing (39 per cent).

you need to drop the bias and start to look at the issue objectively

 

[DesRicardo]

This quick Aussie short really sums it up.

And it doesn't include municipal development charges,

Essentially demand continues to grow faster than housing is built, prices are outpacing wages etc.

I yhink we need to re-assess our "needs". The 4 bedroom suburban home with living rom, family room, formal dining room and Sistine Chepel Grand Entrance seem pretentiously wasteful.

Smaller, European style low rise seem to be a nice transitional path to smaller home footprints.

How’s that housing crisis going? #economy #property #rent #construction

youtube.com

Funny video. It's spot on.

Sorry but there is no transitional path. Isn't that what condos were all about?

Once you guys figure out what the biggest industry in Canada is, then you'll finally realize how screwed the future is.