Royal Spa
Toronto Escorts

UNSC passes resolution demanding immediate ceasefire in Gaza

Kautilya

It Doesn't Matter What You Think!
May 12, 2023
8,497
11,762
113
Hamas needs to return the hostages before there can be a ceasefire.

If you don't think so, it means that you want the fighting to continue which means you want more Palestinians to die. And that is why I, and others, have been saying for months about you. You are simply confirming it. Why would you not want to save more Palis simply by returning the hostages?
Israel needs to put it down in writing, with UN and US oversight, and agree that post ceasefire, there will be a final and lasting solution to the conflict - which is to return to the 1967 borders, remove all settlements from the West Bank as they are illegal anyway, release all Palestinian detainees who have been jailed without charges or due process and agree to the formation of a new and completely sovereign Palestinian state. I would then agree, that Hamas in tandem at that time, should agree to return all hostages in good faith, and bring about a complete end to the war, kick starting conversation that results in the earlier agreed upon outcome of an independent and sovereign Palestinian state and Israeli withdrawal and return of lands stolen since 1967.

How is that for a solution, for lasting peace?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Frankfooter

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
28,748
51,319
113
Now that Israel is in direct contravention of a UNSC resolution other countries will find it harder to support them at all.
That's a pretty optimistic reading.
Trading hostages for the hope of better PR doesn't seem that sound.
But thanks for providing your reasoning there.
 

Kautilya

It Doesn't Matter What You Think!
May 12, 2023
8,497
11,762
113
That's a pretty optimistic reading.
Trading hostages for the hope of better PR doesn't seem that sound.
But thanks for providing your reasoning there.
I think most countries do not support Israel in these resolutions regardless. It is chiefly the US that vetoes things when it comes to UNSC resolutions and protects Israel. Whether or when the US will be swayed the other way is a huge IF, and a most likely, No, but we'll see.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Frankfooter

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
82,336
18,392
113
I think most countries do not support Israel in these resolutions regardless. It is chiefly the US that vetoes things when it comes to UNSC resolutions and protects Israel. Whether or when the US will be swayed the other way is a huge IF, and a most likely, No, but we'll see.
The UNSC ceasefire resolution was the first time the US has broken the Negroponte doctrine in many decades.
Its a massive shift even if Biden immediately backtracked.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kautilya

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
28,748
51,319
113
That's not accurate.
Just as important is letting the aid through that the ICJ has twice ruled must get through to stop the famine.
That's hardly 'PR', again, that shows the bias of your own views.
Exact quote from you in response to why this would be helpful.

"Now that Israel is in direct contravention of a UNSC resolution other countries will find it harder to support them at all."

Nothing whatsoever about the ICJ aid.
All of that was downstream from the increasing lack of support.
 

shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
47,618
8,353
113
Toronto
Israel needs to put it down in writing, with UN and US oversight, and agree that post ceasefire, there will be a final and lasting solution to the conflict - which is to return to the 1967 borders, remove all settlements from the West Bank as they are illegal anyway, release all Palestinian detainees who have been jailed without charges or due process and agree to the formation of a new and completely sovereign Palestinian state. I would then agree, that Hamas in tandem at that time, should agree to return all hostages in good faith, and bring about a complete end to the war, kick starting conversation that results in the earlier agreed upon outcome of an independent and sovereign Palestinian state and Israeli withdrawal and return of lands stolen since 1967.
You still did not answer how Hamas surrender and return of hostages is not the FASTEST way to stop the current violence in Gaza.
 

Kautilya

It Doesn't Matter What You Think!
May 12, 2023
8,497
11,762
113
You still did not answer how Hamas surrender and return of hostages is not the FASTEST way to stop the current violence in Gaza.
Simple. Because Israel does not agree to stop the violence and the occupation whether or not Hamas surrenders or returns hostages.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
82,336
18,392
113
Exact quote from you in response to why this would be helpful.

"Now that Israel is in direct contravention of a UNSC resolution other countries will find it harder to support them at all."

Nothing whatsoever about the ICJ aid.
All of that was downstream from the increasing lack of support.
Not in that sentence, but in the full quote. And if you're going to quote me use proper terb citation, use the reply function to copy and paste a quote with a link included. I can't tell which post you quoted from or why you picked only that one sentence. I would expect more accuracy from an academic with such a pedantic nature, unless you're one of those older, non tech, tenured types.

Partial quotes are dishonest, as you know.

You also know that things are coming to a boil. Biden keeps pretending to back the law, like with the UNSC, while also trying to send billions more in bombs unannounced. He's also publicly stated that he won't accept a Rafah attack but that's also hard to know if he's just trying to save his reelection or if he means it.

Netanyahu is facing mass protests, a government near breakup, a major issue with conscription of the orthodox and the world having turned against him. He's still stuck knowing that as soon as he stops his career is done and he's just a corrupt war criminal.

But you don't seem interested in discussing any of that, you are more interested in trying to pick apart defence of Palestinian rights.

 

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
28,748
51,319
113
But you don't seem interested in discussing any of that, you are more interested in trying to pick apart defence of Palestinian rights.
When have I ever said anything about Palestinian rights?
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
82,336
18,392
113
When have I ever said anything about Palestinian rights?
Exactly, I argue for equal rights and the rule of law and you want to discuss Hamas.
That is the point.

You are using the same debating tactic as shack and basketcase.
I'll post a UN report and they'll reply 'but Hamas....'

This was on my feed today, thought you'd appreciate it.

 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
60,039
6,407
113
...yep...GENOCIDE....
350,000 died in the recent Yemen war. No one screamed genocide. 30,000 dies this year and millions on the brink of starvation in Sudan and no one is screaming genocide (even though the Janjaweed are again actively engaged in it). Ongoing war in the Sahel with no one screaming genocide.

Sadly you guys have a completely different standard when it comes to Israel.
 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
60,039
6,407
113
Do you think Germans in WWII told themselves there were no death camps?
Do you think there were outside reports that they ignored?

Or do you think they tried to play willfully ignorant?
And now you are accusing Israel of sending Palestinians on trains to Death Camps, gassing, then cremating them?

Pathetic example of hatred.
 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
60,039
6,407
113
You have to have a ceasefire first before hostages on both sides can be returned.
...
Another weak-assed excuse. Why do you keep making things up that the UNSC didn't say?

Hamas has repeatedly rejected ceasefire deals negotiated by Egypt, Qatar, and the US. You'll make the excuse that the ceasefires weren't permanent, ignoring that a permanent ceasefire is called a peace dal, something you and Hamas openly reject.
 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
60,039
6,407
113
In a negotiation, yes.
This wasn't a negotiation it was an third party, the UNSC, demanding a ceasefire.
...
And Hamas has rejected but the negotiated deal and the UNSC. It's sad you think Arabs are too far beneath you to be held accountable for their choices.
 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
60,039
6,407
113
Wrong.... Netanyahoo is doing this all on his own. The 1200 Hamas killed does not warrant the 32000 or the million starving. Does that sound like an appropriate response to you? It is literally gross overkill. What would you say if a large hostile power did this to Israel? You too would be screaming GENOCIDE at the top of your lungs.
You bring up a good point. Plenty of Israelis are demanding an election so they can get rid of Netanyahu because of his actions. How much pressure are Palestinians putting on Hamas to change?
 
Ashley Madison
Toronto Escorts