TPS officer killed

[Phil C. McNasty]

Mismanaged my ass. She stole the money (allegedly of course, so I cant get sued)

MANDEL: Toronto cop's credibility questioned at trial for fellow officer's death

Toronto Police Sgt. Lisa Forbes fought back tears as she recalled watching Det.-Const. Jeff Northrup being run over and killed in 2021.

torontosun.com

The lawyer for Umar Zameer, the driver now on trial for first-degree murder, would end the difficult day challenging the officer’s honesty and blatantly calling her a liar: more than a decade ago, Forbes was found guilty of discreditable conduct under the Police Act and docked 24 hours pay after cash went missing from a T-shirt fundraiser for the family of slain Sgt. Ryan Russell.

“It was mismanaged,” she admitted.

 

[GameBoy27]

This case is very different from what I had imagined happened that night. I originally figured it was some thug who simply ran down an officer. From what we know now (with more to come) I see a very strong case for reasonable doubt. Sounds more like Zameer, with his wife and child in the car, panicked and tried to flee. I don't believe he intentionally tried to kill an officer. It's a very unfortunate incident, one I'm sure the man feel great remorse. I don't think justice would be served by throwing him in jail.

 

[oakvilleguy]

This case is very different from what I had imagined happened that night. I originally figured it was some thug who simply ran down an officer. From what we know now (with more to come) I see a very strong case for reasonable doubt. Sounds more like Zameer, with his wife and child in the car, panicked and tried to flee. I don't believe he intentionally tried to kill an officer. It's a very unfortunate incident, one I'm sure the man feel great remorse. I don't think justice would be served by throwing him in jail.

Yeah me too. When I originally heard about the case in the news, I thought the same. Now I have a different perception of the accused. My biases are showing through.

 

[GameBoy27]

Not blaming the officer who got run over, but perhaps he put himself in a vulnerable position to be struck by the minivan? Of course, hindsight is 20/20.

 

[bordeaux]

This case is very different from what I had imagined happened that night. I originally figured it was some thug who simply ran down an officer. From what we know now (with more to come) I see a very strong case for reasonable doubt. Sounds more like Zameer, with his wife and child in the car, panicked and tried to flee. I don't believe he intentionally tried to kill an officer. It's a very unfortunate incident, one I'm sure the man feel great remorse. I don't think justice would be served by throwing him in jail.

It is interesting to go back to the early comments on this thread when there were few details. That allowed commenters to fill in their own blanks. Clearly this situation was more complex than many, including me, originally thought.

 

[GameBoy27]

It is interesting to go back to the early comments on this thread when there were few details. That allowed commenters to fill in their own blanks. Clearly this situation was more complex than many, including me, originally thought.

From what we now know, first degree murder seems like a real stretch. The crown however would've know the details before they laid the charge. It would've also have gone through a preliminary hearing, where a judge would've determined there's enough evidence for the likelihood of a conviction, thus sending it to trial.

I'm guessing when Zameer takes the stand, there's going to be more than a few jurors who will sympathize with him.

The outcome will be interesting to say the least.

 

[GameBoy27]

Problem with that theory is the woman police officer identifying herself by holding her badge to the car window.

Do we know if the male officer also presented his badge? I can see how the Zameer could've been freaked out by how they were dressed,

 

[1kevin]

I believe the defendant's testimony, and that this was a tragic accident. If I was exiting an underground parking lot, at night, with my family, or by myself, and I was approached by one or more people, displaying what could be fake ID or police badges, I would be hesitant to stop. Now, that his testimony has been made public, I can't see any justification for him to be prosecuted. In fact, it would be a complete injustice. IMO, he should be found not guilty of any charges, and acquitted.

 

[GameBoy27]

I believe the defendant's testimony, and that this was a tragic accident. If I was exiting an underground parking lot, at night, with my family, or by myself, and I was approached by one or more people, displaying what could be fake ID or police badges, I would be hesitant to stop. Now, that his testimony has been made public, I can't see any justification for him to be prosecuted. In fact, it would be a complete injustice. IMO, he should be found not guilty of any charges, and acquitted.

Agreed. Plus the fact he's had this hanging over his (and his family's) head for 3 years. Just awful.

 

[1kevin]

Agreed. Plus the fact he's had this hanging over his (and his family's) head for 3 years. Just awful.

Yes, that too. But I have a bad feeling that he's going to be found guilty of something, maybe manslaughter, which is still not the right outcome, or there'd be outrage in the police community.

 

[GameBoy27]

Yes, that too. But I have a bad feeling that he's going to be found guilty of something, maybe manslaughter, which is still not the right outcome, or there'd be outrage in the police community.

I believe he's only been charged with one crime. Now I'm not a lawyer, but if he's found not guilty of first degree murder, I don't think they can retry him on manslaughter.

 

[1kevin]

I believe he's only been charged with one crime. Now I'm not a lawyer, but if he's found not guilty of first degree murder, I don't think they can retry him on manslaughter.

I'm not a lawyer either, but in movies, it's common for murder charges to be down graded, either by plea bargaining or by judge or jury decision, so if the prosecution don't think that they can get a first degree murder charge, they may settle for 2nd degree murder or manslaughter.

 

[smart_alek]

Yeah me too. When I originally heard about the case in the news, I thought the same. Now I have a different perception of the accused. My biases are showing through.

Of course we all did. That's how police release news to paint the picture.

 

[oakvilleguy]

Of course we all did. That's how police release news to paint the picture.

So much for innocent until proven guilty eh

 

[Ceiling Cat]

I'm not a lawyer either, but in movies, it's common for murder charges to be down graded, either by plea bargaining or by judge or jury decision, so if the prosecution don't think that they can get a first degree murder charge, they may settle for 2nd degree murder or manslaughter.

He may get a lesser charge if they can not prove premeditation, if he was fleeing the crime and killed the policeman by accident then it can not be first degree murder. Maybe it is the negotiation strategy of the prosecution charge high and bargain down.

 

[mandrill]

Pukka Orchestra: Cherry Beach Express

I got a bone to pick with you
Not so friendly boys in blue
When you come out of the station and into the street
Everybody beats a hasty retreat
Well, it was late one Friday, I'm a little bit wrecked
You're on your way to serve and protect
You buzz out of the cruiser like bees from a hive
And ask me if I want to? go for a drive'
(Go for a drive?)
That's why I'm riding on the Cherry Beach Express
My ribs are broken and my face is in a mess
And my name on my statement signed under duress
52 division, handcuffed to a chair
I'm trying to line up, to fall down the stairs
I tell you I am innocent, I try to explain
But just making sure you don't do it again
(Do what again?)
That's why you're riding on the Cherry Beach Express
Your ribs are broken and your face is in a mess
And we strongly suggest you confess, I confess
I confess, I am mystified by the way you're occupied
I confess, I am horrified, why are you so terrified?
Does the pain get any less if I confess?
And my name on my statement signed at duress
52 division, handcuffed to a chair
I'm trying to line up, to fall down the stairs
I tell you I am innocent, I try to explain
But just making sure you don't do it again
(Do what again?)
That's why I'm riding on the Cherry Beach Express
My ribs are broken and my face is in a mess
That's why I'm riding on the Cherry Beach Express
And I never dreamed it would be like this
I never dreamed it would be like this
I never dreamed it would be like this
I never dreamed it would be like this

Different time and a different Toronto. Thank god.

 

[mandrill]

He may get a lesser charge if they can not prove premeditation, if he was fleeing the crime and killed the policeman by accident then it can not be first degree murder. Maybe it is the negotiation strategy of the prosecution charge high and bargain down.

Actually, I think he can. "Felony murder one".

 

[Ceiling Cat]

Actually, I think he can. "Felony murder one".

Is it exactly the same as murder 1?

 

[mandrill]

Is it exactly the same as murder 1?

Classification of murder

• 231 (1) Murder is first degree murder or second degree murder.
• Marginal note planned and deliberate murder
  (2) Murder is first degree murder when it is planned and deliberate.
• Marginal note:Contracted murder
  (3) Without limiting the generality of subsection (2), murder is planned and deliberate when it is committed pursuant to an arrangement under which money or anything of value passes or is intended to pass from one person to another, or is promised by one person to another, as consideration for that other’s causing or assisting in causing the death of anyone or counselling another person to do any act causing or assisting in causing that death.
• Marginal note:Murder of peace officer, etc.
  (4) Irrespective of whether a murder is planned and deliberate on the part of any person, murder is first degree murder when the victim is
  • (a) a police officer, police constable, constable, sheriff, deputy sheriff, sheriff’s officer or other person employed for the preservation and maintenance of the public peace, acting in the course of his duties;
  • (b) a warden, deputy warden, instructor, keeper, jailer, guard or other officer or a permanent employee of a prison, acting in the course of his duties; or
  • (c) a person working in a prison with the permission of the prison authorities and acting in the course of his work therein.
• Marginal note:Hijacking, sexual assault or kidnapping
  (5) Irrespective of whether a murder is planned and deliberate on the part of any person, murder is first degree murder in respect of a person when the death is caused by that person while committing or attempting to commit an offence under one of the following sections:
  • (a) section 76 (hijacking an aircraft);
  • (b) section 271 (sexual assault);
  • (c) section 272 (sexual assault with a weapon, threats to a third party or causing bodily harm);
  • (d) section 273 (aggravated sexual assault);
  • (e) section 279 (kidnapping and forcible confinement); or
  • (f) section 279.1 (hostage taking).
• Marginal note:Criminal harassment
  (6) Irrespective of whether a murder is planned and deliberate on the part of any person, murder is first degree murder when the death is caused by that person while committing or attempting to commit an offence under section 264 and the person committing that offence intended to cause the person murdered to fear for the safety of the person murdered or the safety of anyone known to the person murdered.
• Marginal note:Murder — terrorist activity
  (6.01) Irrespective of whether a murder is planned and deliberate on the part of a person, murder is first degree murder when the death is caused by that person while committing or attempting to commit an indictable offence under this or any other Act of Parliament if the act or omission constituting the offence also constitutes a terrorist activity.
• Marginal note:Murder — criminal organization
  (6.1) Irrespective of whether a murder is planned and deliberate on the part of a person, murder is first degree murder when
  • (a) the death is caused by that person for the benefit of, at the direction of or in association with a criminal organization; or
  • (b) the death is caused by that person while committing or attempting to commit an indictable offence under this or any other Act of Parliament for the benefit of, at the direction of or in association with a criminal organization.
• Marginal note:Intimidation
  (6.2) Irrespective of whether a murder is planned and deliberate on the part of a person, murder is first degree murder when the death is caused by that person while committing or attempting to commit an offence under section 423.1.

 

[SchlongConery]

He may get a lesser charge if they can not prove premeditation, if he was fleeing the crime and killed the policeman by accident then it can not be first degree murder. Maybe it is the negotiation strategy of the prosecution charge high and bargain down.

Did you even read any of the information posted or linked to?