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The complexities of Sudan

basketcase

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Very under-reported tragedy and extremely complex geopolitical conflict.

For those not in the know, Al-Bashir was dictator for decades and one tool of keeping power was to create two parallel militaries so neither one would be in a position to hold a coup. In 2019, they teamed up and got rid of Al-Bashir, following a process of trying to set up a new system. They were getting close to a deal but that would have involved merging those two forces which would have taken away one of their power-bases so they chose war instead.

The sides are the Sudanese Armed Forces and the Rapid Support Forces. The Armed forces have more formal military equipment but are seen by some as part of the corrupt power structure from Al-Bashir's era. The RSF on the other hand were more of a militia and were partly formed by the Janjaweed fighters who were responsible for the genocide in Darfur and are using the fighting as an excuse to continue it.

And the complicating factor is Sudan has, gold, oil, and a Red Sea port. That has drawn all sorts of international players. Egypt has always seen Sudan as their plaything and have been involved in keeping division between Sudan's Arab and African populations. Wagner has been active in Sudan for a decade or so and Russia has been funding the RSF for the much needed gold. This has brought Ukrainian special forces to back the SAF to prevent Russia from profiting. UAE has been seeing it as a place where they can continue their expansion of influence like they have in Yemen. Saudi is involved because the same reason and to reduce UAE's influence and has been playing both sides. Iran sees it as a way to expand their "axis of resistance" and have been funnelling arms to the RSF from their proxies in Chad and Libya. China is desperate for a military and naval base to control and defend their oil supplies from the Middle East. Because Russia and China are involved, the US of course is there. Israel has sold weapons there and has been happy that the US helped coordinate Sudan's government (SAF) recognizing Israel. The UN and African Union are interested in regional stability.

On the humanitarian side, something like 30,000 dead in the past 11 months including a slaughter of 10,000 people (RSF's Arab fighters killing African civilians). There are also something like 8 million refugees or internally displaced people, many of them ethnic Africans chased out by the RSF. Add in massive starvation, widespread sexual violence, cholera, etc, and it is a criminally underreported crisis.

But I'm sure this topic won't be found interesting to many here.

 

Conil

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Apr 12, 2013
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Very under-reported tragedy and extremely complex geopolitical conflict.

For those not in the know, Al-Bashir was dictator for decades and one tool of keeping power was to create two parallel militaries so neither one would be in a position to hold a coup. In 2019, they teamed up and got rid of Al-Bashir, following a process of trying to set up a new system. They were getting close to a deal but that would have involved merging those two forces which would have taken away one of their power-bases so they chose war instead.

The sides are the Sudanese Armed Forces and the Rapid Support Forces. The Armed forces have more formal military equipment but are seen by some as part of the corrupt power structure from Al-Bashir's era. The RSF on the other hand were more of a militia and were partly formed by the Janjaweed fighters who were responsible for the genocide in Darfur and are using the fighting as an excuse to continue it.

And the complicating factor is Sudan has, gold, oil, and a Red Sea port. That has drawn all sorts of international players. Egypt has always seen Sudan as their plaything and have been involved in keeping division between Sudan's Arab and African populations. Wagner has been active in Sudan for a decade or so and Russia has been funding the RSF for the much needed gold. This has brought Ukrainian special forces to back the SAF to prevent Russia from profiting. UAE has been seeing it as a place where they can continue their expansion of influence like they have in Yemen. Saudi is involved because the same reason and to reduce UAE's influence and has been playing both sides. Iran sees it as a way to expand their "axis of resistance" and have been funnelling arms to the RSF from their proxies in Chad and Libya. China is desperate for a military and naval base to control and defend their oil supplies from the Middle East. Because Russia and China are involved, the US of course is there. Israel has sold weapons there and has been happy that the US helped coordinate Sudan's government (SAF) recognizing Israel. The UN and African Union are interested in regional stability.

On the humanitarian side, something like 30,000 dead in the past 11 months including a slaughter of 10,000 people (RSF's Arab fighters killing African civilians). There are also something like 8 million refugees or internally displaced people, many of them ethnic Africans chased out by the RSF. Add in massive starvation, widespread sexual violence, cholera, etc, and it is a criminally underreported crisis.

But I'm sure this topic won't be found interesting to many here.

Millions have been killed in Sudan, a true genocide. But the topic is of no interest here because the Jews didn't do the killing.
 
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SchlongConery

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Jan 28, 2013
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Very under-reported tragedy and extremely complex geopolitical conflict.

For those not in the know,

On the humanitarian side, something like 30,000 dead in the past 11 months including a slaughter of 10,000 people (RSF's Arab fighters killing African civilians). There are also something like 8 million refugees or internally displaced people, many of them ethnic Africans chased out by the RSF. Add in massive starvation, widespread sexual violence, cholera, etc, and it is a criminally underreported crisis.

But I'm sure this topic won't be found interesting to many here.

Thanks for the concise summary basketcase.

My head hurts and heart aches with all the conflicts going on and the suffering of so many fellow humanswhose only sin is being born in the wrong place.

I try to stay informed of things but how can anyone keep up. 🤷‍♂️

Many years ago a very astute friend of mine simply swore off consuming ’news’. Said his life became much less stressful not thinking about or discussing matters that he had absolutely zero influence on.

Said he immediately became more productive, beneficial to those within his personal sphere of influence … and happier.

I did it for 5-6 years with the same results.

I think it is coming to that for me again. The stupid futility of engaging with the likes of nottyboi and mitch is inexplicable for me…. Even if I just look at it as discussing sports, which has never been my thing. Too tribal. And talking sports seldom makes me feel gross.
 

Frankfooter

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Apr 10, 2015
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Still waiting for the TERB HAMsters to start posting about Ethiopia as well. Crickets....
The reason why these threads die off and don't generate hundreds of pages of discussion is pretty basic.
Nobody says 'they need to kill more of the side I support', or 'all those rebels are cockroaches and should be exterminated'.
Its pretty easy for most people to say 'yes, its shitty and should stop', instead of 'lets send more bombs to get those women and children'.

That's the difference.
 

Kautilya

It Doesn't Matter What You Think!
May 12, 2023
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Many years ago a very astute friend of mine simply swore off consuming ’news’. Said his life became much less stressful not thinking about or discussing matters that he had absolutely zero influence on.

Said he immediately became more productive, beneficial to those within his personal sphere of influence … and happier.

I did it for 5-6 years with the same results.
This is me since 2019 or so. Infact, when I go on the treadmill, I change the channel on that little TV to a movie or something. You only ever hear death, crime and other unpleasant news. I have to say it has made me less stressed, less anxious, and more focused on myself, my job and business and the people around me.

I also realized this is how it used to be in the 90s in India (not sure about Canada), when I was growing up. We'd have news at 8:30PM to 9:30PM. We'd watch that and read newspapers in the morning. That was it. No 24/7 rhetoric fest like it is today. And we were less anxious and more focused on ourselves and our families. So I think it is absolutely the right decision to go back to that mode, by cutting ourselves off of 24/7 news!
The reason why these threads die off and don't generate hundreds of pages of discussion is pretty basic.
Nobody says 'they need to kill more of the side I support', or 'all those rebels are cockroaches and should be exterminated'.
Its pretty easy for most people to say 'yes, its shitty and should stop', instead of 'lets send more bombs to get those women and children'.

That's the difference.
Yup when everyone agrees its terrible, there is no need for further discussion. But there are certain issues that are polarizing where there are members who want to take the side of evil.
 

basketcase

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Dec 29, 2005
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The reason why these threads die off and don't generate hundreds of pages of discussion is pretty basic.
...
Because people like you don't care about human suffering unless you can warp it into your hateful agenda.

There should be huge pressure on world powers and our own government to provide much needed aid and to prevent the ethnic cleansing by the RSF/Janjaweed but you hate-mongers are too busy pushing your campaign. You have hundreds of people protesting outside synagogues but not a single one has even hinted to their MP that we should help the Sudanese.

I would suggest that a good part of the reason people protesting Israel based on sharing sympathies with Muslim Palestinians won't speak up about the genocide in Darfur is because it is Arab Muslims committing the genocide.
 
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basketcase

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...

Yup when everyone agrees its terrible, there is no need for further discussion....
The anti-Israel crowd spend a lot of energy trying to change public opinion and influence government decisions. Wouldn't that same effort push governments to actually help a much larger group of people facing starvation?
 

Kautilya

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The anti-Israel crowd spend a lot of energy trying to change public opinion and influence government decisions. Wouldn't that same effort push governments to actually help a much larger group of people facing starvation?
Israel's actions are evil. The anti-Israel crowd are therefore on the right side and have no other choice than to protest.
 
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basketcase

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Israel's actions are evil. The anti-Israel crowd are therefore on the right side and have no other choice than to protest.
So you say. Are the actions of the RSF not evil? You're just making excuses to avoid helping people 25 million people in severe need because it doesn't fit an agenda.

Canada's government (or the US, EU) have shown little interest in helping the famine conditions in Sudan. Why are you afraid of pushing Canada (or India for that matter) to help those million? All you're doing is admitting that helping people is not what you are interested in unless it gives you an excuse to shit on a group you don't like.
 

Kautilya

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So you say. Are the actions of the RSF not evil? You're just making excuses to avoid helping people 25 million people in severe need because it doesn't fit an agenda.

Canada's government (or the US, EU) have shown little interest in helping the famine conditions in Sudan. Why are you afraid of pushing Canada (or India for that matter) to help those million? All you're doing is admitting that helping people is not what you are interested in unless it gives you an excuse to shit on a group you don't like.
I dont know much about what the RSF does, so yes, they may be evil. I am not against anyone helping the Sudanese people. What does that have to do with pro-Palestinian protests? Why should opposition to a civil war replace, and overshadow a protest against genocide and a 75 year oppression? Oh because the perpetrators are Jewish and you are Jewish as well?
 

jsanchez

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Apr 8, 2004
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T.O.
Very under-reported tragedy and extremely complex geopolitical conflict.

For those not in the know, Al-Bashir was dictator for decades and one tool of keeping power was to create two parallel militaries so neither one would be in a position to hold a coup. In 2019, they teamed up and got rid of Al-Bashir, following a process of trying to set up a new system. They were getting close to a deal but that would have involved merging those two forces which would have taken away one of their power-bases so they chose war instead.

The sides are the Sudanese Armed Forces and the Rapid Support Forces. The Armed forces have more formal military equipment but are seen by some as part of the corrupt power structure from Al-Bashir's era. The RSF on the other hand were more of a militia and were partly formed by the Janjaweed fighters who were responsible for the genocide in Darfur and are using the fighting as an excuse to continue it.

And the complicating factor is Sudan has, gold, oil, and a Red Sea port. That has drawn all sorts of international players. Egypt has always seen Sudan as their plaything and have been involved in keeping division between Sudan's Arab and African populations. Wagner has been active in Sudan for a decade or so and Russia has been funding the RSF for the much needed gold. This has brought Ukrainian special forces to back the SAF to prevent Russia from profiting. UAE has been seeing it as a place where they can continue their expansion of influence like they have in Yemen. Saudi is involved because the same reason and to reduce UAE's influence and has been playing both sides. Iran sees it as a way to expand their "axis of resistance" and have been funnelling arms to the RSF from their proxies in Chad and Libya. China is desperate for a military and naval base to control and defend their oil supplies from the Middle East. Because Russia and China are involved, the US of course is there. Israel has sold weapons there and has been happy that the US helped coordinate Sudan's government (SAF) recognizing Israel. The UN and African Union are interested in regional stability.

On the humanitarian side, something like 30,000 dead in the past 11 months including a slaughter of 10,000 people (RSF's Arab fighters killing African civilians). There are also something like 8 million refugees or internally displaced people, many of them ethnic Africans chased out by the RSF. Add in massive starvation, widespread sexual violence, cholera, etc, and it is a criminally underreported crisis.

But I'm sure this topic won't be found interesting to many here.

Nothing to see here, move along, the hypocrites are not interested, South Africa won't be referring anyone to the ICC.
 
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Frankfooter

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Yet another thread where basketcase tries to argue that Israel is as evil as Sudan, North Korea or Iran and then complain we should be talking about them instead.

Such a winning strategy.
 

Kautilya

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May 12, 2023
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Yet another thread where basketcase tries to argue that Israel is as evil as Sudan, North Korea or Iran and then complain we should be talking about them instead.

Such a winning strategy.
basketcase doesn't really care about Sudan. He is trying to falsely say, "Israel is not killing as many people as Sudan! That is more outrageous!". As I mentioned, genocide > civil war.
 
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southpaw

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The anti-Israel crowd spend a lot of energy trying to change public opinion and influence government decisions. Wouldn't that same effort push governments to actually help a much larger group of people facing starvation?
Or, Western governments can simply stop arming Israel. Just like they don't arm Sudan, or Eritrea, or whoever else.

The anti-Israel crowd are not influencing government decisions. That's influenced by the Israel lobby.

What lobby do Sudan or Eritrea have in the West? How much do they spend to influence Western elections?
 

basketcase

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basketcase doesn't really care about Sudan. He is trying to falsely say, "Israel is not killing as many people as Sudan! That is more outrageous!". As I mentioned, genocide > civil war.
You don't really care about anyone but happily jump on the anti-Israel bandwagon and simply love making excuses for it. I'm sure you don't care about the hundred million in India living in extreme poverty. Why are you spending time arguing that Palestinians people need more aid while refusing to admit that 25 million Sudanes are starving?

Sad that instead of admitting that the people of Sudan need a huge amount of aid, you simply come up with conspiracy theories.


p.s. Amazing that you insist on commenting on news stories on terb while admitting you don't read the news.
 
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basketcase

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Or, Western governments can simply stop arming Israel. Just like they don't arm Sudan, or Eritrea, or whoever else.
...
Except they are through Saudi Arabia and UAE. There are also US and other NATO special Forces active in Sudan.

But whatever excuse you need to push your Jewish conspiracy theories.
 
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Kautilya

It Doesn't Matter What You Think!
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You don't really care about anyone but happily jump on the anti-Israel bandwagon and simply love making excuses for it. I'm sure you don't care about the hundred million in India living in extreme poverty. Why are you spending time arguing that Palestinians people need more aid while refusing to admit that 25 million Sudanes are starving?

Sad that instead of admitting that the people of Sudan need a huge amount of aid, you simply come up with conspiracy theories.

p.s. Amazing that you insist on commenting on news stories on terb while admitting you don't read the news.
Of course I care about Palestinians, Sudanese, the Ukrainians etc., We are not talking about what I care/don't care about. We are talking about why you started this thread. I agree Sudanese need aid. But you inserted Israel into the conversation, so your intent for starting this thread is clear.

But as I mentioned - Genocide and Colonialism > Civil War.

PS: You dont have to read the news to comment on threads. I review what is posted in the thread and then comment. That is perfectly reasonable.
 

basketcase

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Yet another thread where basketcase tries to argue that Israel is as evil as Sudan, North Korea or Iran and then complain we should be talking about them instead.

Such a winning strategy.
As opposed to your strategy of ignoring every tragedy in the world unless you can blame the Jews?
 
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southpaw

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