they were not suckers, they were probably complicit. you see, if they don't make the loan they don't make money. Because they are sophisticated, they know the project needs a cartain interest rate to be viable or no deal. So its in everyones interest to overvalue the collateral. The valuation was probably a colaboration between the Trump team and the bank team.
Trump gets a $355 million kick to the crotch, will he pay up?
- Thread starter Ceiling Cat
- Start date
No but I have taken loans before and banks go through some effort to value real estate and tend to make CONSERVATIVE valuations.
Did you lie on your loan applications?
Do you think the bank would loan you money based on the collateral and statements of your overall financial condition in support of your loan applications you provided if you doubled or tripled the value of same?
If you did you would have completed a credit application and your rate would have been affected by your statement of net worth/assets/liabilities etc. Rates are risk adjusted.
they do their own valuations for large loans. Even a HELOC for 500K they do their own evalution. Plus with real estate collateral, there are easy valuation models. How much rent, how much property tax etc. No one that stupid could be working in high dollar commercial real estate loans. PLUS the valuation is done by a seperate team then the sales team. (underwriter whatever) So the valuation is always a consensus effort. Ultimately no money was lost and all loans were repaid.
Again, you avoid the question.
Do you think the bank would loan you money if they discovered you lied on your application?
The type of banks who loaned Trump since early 2000 are mostly not American. So yes they most probably did.
The biggest problem Trump most probably has right now is that he has loaned on properties that are currently valued less on the street market... No one seems to know for sure as Trump's team said themselves they found their money in Russia many years ago.
Adjustable... exactly!
Lying on a credit application is fraud. You don't even have to obtain the card, or default on paying your bill. So nobody has to lose anything for the fraud to occur. Simply lying on the application is fraud.
In the case of Trump it can be equated in the following example.
Say Honest Joe Lunchpail making $30,000.00 a year as "Sanitation Engineer" applies for a credit card to start his small business.
Probably gets a low limit and high interest rate card.
Now imagine he falsifies his income to $300,000.00 and adjusts his job title to "Engineer-Sanitation Division".
He now qualifies for a no-fee, low interest high limit card.
This defrauds the bank of the potential higher (interest) rate of return on their line of credit as well as eating into the (capital) factor they could otherwise lend to a more creditworthy client.
The $355 million judgement is a disgorgement to claw back the benefit of the fraudulent statements made by Trump. Not sure if it was just lower getting lower interest rates or if they factored in the enrichment Trump got from being able to borrow more than he would have been able to if his statements were true and invest elsewhere etc.
Kevin is a friend and one thing you have to understand is that he is a self-promoting entertainer first. Having said that, try proposing a deal to Kevin where you have grossly overvalued your security, income etc. See if he thinks that is a joke,
And whether or not the bank does their "due diligence" is immaterial to the fraud. Simply making the application under false pretences is fraud.
What more can anyone say?
You and other Trumpers whose only knowledge of law is from what you have learned on Twitter, Fox News and denials by Trump and his lawyers. Isn't that what every accused says? That they are innocent and not guilty?Lawyers, Judges etc all can read the statutes of what constitutes fraudulent misrepresentation and have heard the evidence. Lots of people get sued for civil fraud that are not running for president.
Are you saying that Trump is above the law because he is running for President?
it was found in court to be a crime therefore it is a crime, just like his rape of E Jean Carrol and defamation.
Ya cant you totally see Trump saying on TV : Yeah I screwed up and I will take full responsibility for my actions. I hope to put this shame behind me once and for all and I accept the outcome of my unfortunate doingsWhat more can anyone say?
Lawyers, Judges etc all can read the statutes of what constitutes fraudulent misrepresentation and have heard the evidence. Lots of people get sued for civil fraud that are not running for president.
Are you saying that Trump is above the law because he is running for President?
Mitchyyyyyy, Trumpyyyyyy needs funds, brother! Come on man, do it for your leader and favorite and best dirtball of the world!!!!
Trump lawyer Alina Habba BRUTALLY caught lying about Trump's cash
really, he really really really needs you
None were prosecuted as a "crime" in the sense of a criminal offence. Although the fraud and sexual assault would qualify as such.
The fraud was prosecuted through civil court proceedings. The 'people of New York' being the plaintiff.
The Judge found that he was liable for the tort of fraud and the judgement was simply to cause him to disgorge himself of the benefits of his fraudulent statements. The plaintiff being the people of New York whose system of banking and insurance is endangered by fraud.
Never mind the flipside where he cheated the taxpayers out of property taxes by artificially lowering the values of the properties he overstated the values of for mortgage purposes.
E. Jean Carrol's sexual assault case was also prosecuted civilly. Not criminally. It, and the resultant defamations were private lawsuits that did not involve the government. And the jurors were all from New York who skyline Trump built!
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Jails are filled with people who have committed financial fraud and who were not running for president. He thinks he is above the law and you and your fellow travellers just reinforce that view. Sad.
You might not remember or know of the huge sub-prime mortgage crisis that decimated the values of US housing, pension funds, mortgage backed securities, investment bonds, bankrupted banks and homeowners and contributed to the global financial crisis of 2007-2008. The lenders themselves were the biggest culprits by the de-facto practice of consumers falsifying loan applications and hiring compliant appraisers that would inflate the value of the properties.
What Trump and his banks did was no different except for the fact that Trump was miraculously able to keep what is essentially a cheque kiting scheme by borrowing new funds. From who knows where. Whose cash backed Deutsche Bank's loans to Trump?
Keeping fraud in check is important to try to keep our system from not collapsing too often. There is always wayyyy too much white collar fraud going on. Especially with the banks and their 'Investment Bankers' /account managers acting in concert with wealthy individuals, private and public companies. But these fraudsters are smart enough to keep a low profile and not shoot their mouths off and brag about how smart they are to cheat the system.
Didn't Trump himself say he knows the system is rigged and nobody knows it better because he plays the game himself?
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I agree.
Being so out of control that you don't know when to stop running your mouth cost him close to another $100 million bucks!
12 jurors agreed.
