Steeles Royal

INTERNATIONAL COURT OF JUSTICE: LATEST

danmand

Well-known member
Nov 28, 2003
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“ can be” as in “may be” at some future date”.

As in
“God grant me the serenity it accept the things I cannot change, the courage for those I can. And the wisdom to know the difference.”

As in
Nothing to do but wait for the dust to settle theb Pick up the pieces.

What have you and all the whines for ceasefire or genocide accomplished?
Nada
It ain't over
 
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Not getting younger

Well-known member
Jun 29, 2022
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Nope.
but what’s been accomplished?
Other than protest abroad, some violence abroad potentially more ill will towards Palestine?
 

richaceg

Well-known member
Feb 11, 2009
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That is what the genocide lovers fail to understand.

It is an interim ruling, where the ICJ has not (yet) come to a conclusion that there is a genocide, but have seen enough evidence of actions that may result in a finding of genocide, that it is telling Israel to immediately cease and desist actions that will result in a finding of genocide.

Is that so hard to understand. Obviously, as it is only an interim finding of the court, both parties will claim victory; that is what lawyers are paid to do.
Buy who's being g presumptuous here? There are so many factors to consider yet the jew haters are so fast to call it genocide....
 

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
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In this particular conflict, given the accusation, context, the history of the conflict, the length of the conflict, and the politics and the powers of the nations involved in arming and supporting Israel, I see even a finding of plausible genocide as a tactful and implicit acknowledgement of genocide. Beyond the scope of the court or its decisions, one has to only look at Israels actions, statement by Israeli politicians now and in the past, their Zionist ideology even before the formation of Israel, and the prevalent public opinion (I will link one below), to find this to be the case. I also do not see the genocide accusation as being specific to this war since October 7.
OK, but that is you explicitly acknowledging that you are going beyond what the court actually said in order to ascribe additional meaning to the decision.
As long as we are clear on that.

I'm actually surprised you haven't included the argument that an explicit determination of genocide requires an incredibly high burden of proof and is very narrowly defined by the ICJ.
Since it is very likely if the case proceeds on the merits the ICJ won't be able to find for genocide, you can argue that this "plausible" finding was the most they were ever going to get and so this must be read as the real decision.

Again, that would be you explicitly going beyond what the court said, but if you are going to do so you may as well marshal as many arguments as you can.
 
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whynot888

Well-known member
Nov 30, 2007
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Nope.
but what’s been accomplished?
Other than protest abroad, some violence abroad potentially more ill will towards Palestine?
Might also add wasting 7.5 million of tax payers money, morons.
 

danmand

Well-known member
Nov 28, 2003
46,483
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Buy who's being g presumptuous here? There are so many factors to consider yet the jew haters are so fast to call it genocide....
Craig Murray:
Israel says the International Court of Justice is antisemitic
The United Nations is antisemitic
The World Health Organisation is antisemitic
The 18.22 train from Stockport to Oldham is antisemitic
So are squirrels. Especially the red ones. But the grey ones too.
 

mandrill

Well-known member
Aug 23, 2001
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In this particular conflict, given the accusation, context, the history of the conflict, the length of the conflict, and the politics and the powers of the nations involved in arming and supporting Israel, I see even a finding of plausible genocide as a tactful and implicit acknowledgement of genocide. Beyond the scope of the court or its decisions, one has to only look at Israels actions, statement by Israeli politicians now and in the past, their Zionist ideology even before the formation of Israel, and the prevalent public opinion (I will link one below), to find this to be the case. I also do not see the genocide accusation as being specific to this war since October 7.
So we should all just shut up and put up with it, while people are being mass murdered.
Kauty, there was no finding of genocide.

No finding of genocide. No finding of genocide. No finding of genocide.

Say the phrase to yourself as often as you need to before the light of understanding dawns on your face.

No finding of genocide does not mean that there was a finding of genocide. Any more than finding someone was not guilty is a conviction. Courts don't work that way.
 

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
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That is how I and many others (not just on TERB, but in the media that are pro-Palestinian) are reading it too. And yes, I wouldn't be surprised if the ICJ never gets to ruling on genocide, given the enormous political pressures. They are always going to take a more middle of the road approach.

Of course, I am not surprised that Mr. Genocide thinks there is no finding of genocide.
You can't have it both ways, though.

That you and many others are reading it as an implicit finding of genocide, while acknowledging that the court didn't actually say that is fine.
You're very clear that you are reading into it and why you are going beyond what the court said.
But you can't then say people are being weird for saying there was no finding of genocide when you acknowledge that very fact yourself.
 

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
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It isn't both ways. I am saying that the courts current finding of plausible genocide is as far that the ICJ will ever go, not because there isn't any proof, but due to political pressure. Therefore it may not be an explicit acknowledgement but rather a tactful admission of genocide. That is all you are going to get from the ICJ. And that is not enough to absolve Israel of the genocide charge either.

That is the mid ground they are going to take. You cannot absolve Israel, but you can always argue, it wasn't an explicit acknowledgement.

But adding on context, history, politics and public opinion to this tactful acknowledgement of genocide, I would say, the interpretation (mine, the media etc) that Israel is engaged in genocide is correct, even if the ICJ did not explicitly say so.
But you can't then turn around and say that anyone who says that the court didn't find for genocide - a thing you acknowledge as factually true - is just blinded by bias.
 

Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
30,495
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There are still people alive. Israel can be sued for BILLONS, USA can be sued for BILLIONs. And perhaps when the Arabs finally take out Israel the world will let it happen.
Most of the Arabs already have peace treaties and already prefer Israel to the Palestinians. Your wish is not going to happen.
 
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Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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Yes, it's clearly an interim order. Without any finding of genocide.
Just a finding that its plausible that Israel is committing genocide, that they were ordered to stop it and take care of the people of Gaza and report back in a month on their progress.

Instead they killed about 500 people in a day and tried to shut down the one organization feeding 2.2 million starving people.
The ICJ case is a slam dunk now.

Zionism = genocide.

 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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Especially when the court specifically says they aren't deciding the question of whether you are actually doing XYZ right now, just whether or not it is plausible you might.
You would prefer the adult say 'It is plausible you are committing xyz so I therefore order you not to commit xyz, arrest those inciting xyz and report back in a month on your progress or face discipline'.

Sometimes your requests for accuracy come across as a bit pendantic.
Sometimes they are necessary, sometimes they strive to obfuscate.
 

richaceg

Well-known member
Feb 11, 2009
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You would prefer the adult say 'It is plausible you are committing xyz so I therefore order you not to commit xyz, arrest those inciting xyz and report back in a month on your progress or face discipline'.

Sometimes your requests for accuracy come across as a bit pendantic.
Sometimes they are necessary, sometimes they strive to obfuscate.
Coming from someone who defends hamas...it's quite laughable...
 

Not getting younger

Well-known member
Jun 29, 2022
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It isn't both ways. I am saying that the courts current finding of plausible genocide is as far that the ICJ will ever go, not because there isn't any proof, but due to enormous political pressure
But I’m deranged, can’t communicate etc etc etc, for trying to get you , Franky ( lost cause here so don’t care) etc. To think about that, politicians and politics and challenging “the world”……..

“/laugh laugh laugh”

mission accomplished obviously.
 
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shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
51,719
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Toronto
No they did not. The verdict is explicitly clear. Let me paraphrase for you - "Stop the genocide of the Palestinians from the river to the sea".
Why resort to paraphrasing/hate speech when the actual wording is available:

WHAT DID THE COURT RULE?
The court ordered Israel to refrain from any acts that could fall under the Genocide Convention and to ensure its troops commit no genocidal acts in Gaza.

Your paraphrase is a joke. Clearly from a raging anti-Semite.
 
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Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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Why resort to paraphrasing/hate speech when the actual wording is available:

WHAT DID THE COURT RULE?
The court ordered Israel to refrain from any acts that could fall under the Genocide Convention and to ensure its troops commit no genocidal acts in Gaza.

Your paraphrase is a joke. Clearly from a raging anti-Semite.
The very next day Israel killed about 500 people and moved to stop aid reaching 2.2 starving people through attacks on the UNRWA.
Israel is refusing to abide by the ICJ ruling.
Israel will be charged with genocide at the ICJ.


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