Israel at war

shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
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Disenfranchisement is a consequence of apartheid. Not apartheid itself.
Agreed. That's exactly what happened in S. Africa. Apartheid was instituted explicitly against black and brown SA citizens, such policy saying that their right to vote was being taken away. Apartheid did that according to governmental policy.
 

shack

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Oct 2, 2001
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Kicking ass? They are doing better than that. They are mass murdering Palestinians. That is the problem.
Easy solution. Hamas surrenders and releases the hostages. But it seems that you, along with fringie, want more Palestinians to die because you don't want them to surrender.

You're attempting to suck and blow at the same time.
 

shack

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What if your neighbour was actually targetting a really bad neighbour who was last seen in your backyard and you are just collateral damage? The fault is on the really bad neighbour since he can end your suffering immediately by turning himself in. The neighbour who cut off your fingers deserves no blame.
Exactly the way Hamas should surrender. Hamas was a bad neighbour by trespassing (AKA massacring) on Oct. 7.

Collateral damage? Bombings in backwards?
 

shack

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The people who built today's civilization was us. The people in Africa, Asia and the Middle East. India and China used to account for 40% of world GDP even as late as 1800.
Those are mostly 3rd world countries. Those are not the civilizations in which we thrive. We have evolved. We are 1st world. Get it? Do you see the difference?

We are 1st world and they are 3 world because we advanced and improved ourselves. Western Europe and N. America built their own civilizations.
 

Imnoguru

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Dec 19, 2014
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Yes, apartheid was instituted to keep the populations separate. Voting rights were just one of many consequences. Israel does the same thing to the Palestinians. Hence apartheid state. I am glad you agree that Israel is an apartheid state.
You, like so many, are conflating two realities. Israelis of all races and religions live in one country, vote, have equal rights. There are Moslem (and Christian) Arab Israeli citizens in the Knesset (Parliament), in the judiciary, in the police forces, in the professions, etc. These citizens were resident Arabs living within post-1948 Israel and thereby became Israelis. Other Arabs have become citizens through marriage or other means although that has been becoming very difficult, now it's basically impossible. If you are talking about economic inequities within racial and social groups in Israel, that's reality, and that's a different discussion. But on that basis, the US, Canada and almost every western country would be "apartheid".

The residents of the West Bank (east of the so-called Green LIne) aka Palestinians are not and never were citizens of Israel. They do not have rights afforded to Israeli citizens, even if they work (worked, before October 7) in Israel. They do not live in Israel. So that makes Israel apartheid? Huh?

Israel is the one national homeland for Jews. There are many officially or racially Christian countries (mostly in Europe), there are scores of officially Muslim countries, throughout the Middle East, Far East, Southeast Asia, etc. None of them are branded apartheid. Why do you think that is? If you can't accept that Israel is a Jewish state, without thereby branding it apartheid, there is nothing more to discuss.
 

shack

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Oh please with the steam locomotive and industrial revolution bullshit.
Classic. Automatically dismiss something very relevant out of hand. You must be aware of what you're doing here.

If you want to go back in history look to Greece and Rome for the great mathematicians and philosophers.
 

shack

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And trans oceanic vessels? The Chola Dynasty for example, ruled as far as Indonesia as far back as 1030, and had a renowned navy.
Well, that certainly blossomed into a leader of modern times.

That was a time when Europeans were busy raping each other for sustenance.
Rape is the fourth most common crime against women in India.[1][2] According to the 2021 annual report of the National Crime Records Bureau (NCRB), 31,677 rape cases were registered across the country, or an average of 86 cases daily, a rise from 2020 with 28,046 cases, while in 2019, 32,033 cases were registered.[3] Of the total 31,677 rape cases, 28,147(nearly 89%) of the rapes were committed by persons known to the victim. [4] The share of victims who were minors or below 18 – the legal age of consent – stood at 10%.[4]
Rape in India - Wikipedia

Thanks for teaching us.
 

shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
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Israel does the same thing to the Palestinians.
Are you referring to those foreigners? Those non-citizens?

So Israel is clearly not doing what S. Africa did because:

Israel never took away voting rights from them.
Israel never took away any Israeli civilian rights that they previously had.

As the old bluesmen used to sing:

You can't lose what you ain't never had.

S. African blacks and browns had their vote and other rights taken away from them. Apartheid.
 
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Klatuu

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Dec 31, 2022
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You, like so many, are conflating two realities. Israelis of all races and religions live in one country, vote, have equal rights. There are Moslem (and Christian) Arab Israeli citizens in the Knesset (Parliament), in the judiciary, in the police forces, in the professions, etc. These citizens were resident Arabs living within post-1948 Israel and thereby became Israelis. Other Arabs have become citizens through marriage or other means although that has been becoming very difficult, now it's basically impossible. If you are talking about economic inequities within racial and social groups in Israel, that's reality, and that's a different discussion. But on that basis, the US, Canada and almost every western country would be "apartheid".

The residents of the West Bank (east of the so-called Green LIne) aka Palestinians are not and never were citizens of Israel. They do not have rights afforded to Israeli citizens, even if they work (worked, before October 7) in Israel. They do not live in Israel. So that makes Israel apartheid? Huh?

Israel is the one national homeland for Jews. There are many officially or racially Christian countries (mostly in Europe), there are scores of officially Muslim countries, throughout the Middle East, Far East, Southeast Asia, etc. None of them are branded apartheid. Why do you think that is? If you can't accept that Israel is a Jewish state, without thereby branding it apartheid, there is nothing more to discuss.
Brainwashed
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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Yes. Being disenfranchised is the most important. That is your typical play. Dismiss a point out of hand because you can't provide a logical rebuttal.


They changed the original definition as it explicitly applied to S. African policy. That policy did not affect any non-citizens. If you want to include a policy designed against foreigners, call it something else. It is not how the S. Africans applied that term.

Is it not apartheid that the US does not allow some of its' citizens to vote?
Is it not apartheid that the US does not allow non-citizen refugees to cross the border freely like Americans do?
Is it not apartheid that there is not country in the world that allows non-citizens to vote.

It's only apartheid if it's the Jews doing it. The UN is as "neutral" LOL as you.

No Jews. No news.
You really have no clue.
Until you read the Amnesty, HRW, UN and B'tselem reports you're just posting from ignorance and hate.
 
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Frankfooter

dangling member
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Maybe Hamas shouldn't have attacked on Oct. 7. It was pretty stupid, don't you think.

It's funny how you approve of Oct. 7, but whine about the inevitable reprisals that everyone knew would be coming.
Maybe Netanyahu should have listened to previous PM warnings and settled for the two state solution instead of going for apartheid.
Israel are the occupying power, its their choice to continue settler colonialism and apartheid.
 
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