Israel at war

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
90,796
21,889
113
And who dresses in civilian clothes and fights from those buildings?..... Oh that's right. Hamas does that. Hence the destroyed buildings.
I had thought that when Israel announced they wanted Dersh to represent them that they had picked the worst lawyer possible.
But I was wrong, you'd be the worst on the planet with a defence like that.
You'd make Sydney Powell and dutch oven look like legal whizzes.

 

Phil C. McNasty

Go Jays Go
Dec 27, 2010
26,725
4,793
113
I'm sure he was a nice guy, and its all a big misunderstanding

 

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
32,578
60,296
113
But a Hamas defeat is inevitable.
What does that look like to you?

Is that the current leadership surrendering?
How much of it?
Who counts as "leadership"?
Is that everyone who has expressed support for Hamas surrendering?
How much support is enough support to count here?

What happens to Palestine after that?
Are there elections?
Does Israel rule it directly again?
Do they install a puppet government?

I think for some at least, this is the issue with the "Israel is only in there to defeat Hamas" narrative?
It's unclear what people mean by that. (And I suspect different people mean very different things.)
 

mandrill

Well-known member
Aug 23, 2001
75,787
84,989
113
Gaza death toll passes 22,000 with no let-up in fighting between Hamas and Israel troops (msn.com)


By Nidal al-Mughrabi, Arafat Barbakh and Maayan Lubell

CAIRO/GAZA/JERUSALEM (Reuters) -Israeli forces attacked Khan Younis in the southern Gaza Strip with tank fire and air strikes on Tuesday, residents said, and Israeli ground troops and Hamas militants also battled in other parts of the shattered Palestinian enclave.

Fullscreen button

Palestinians walk past the rubble of a house destroyed by an Israeli strike, amid the ongoing conflict between Israel and the Palestinian Islamist group Hamas, in Rafah, southern Gaza Strip, January 1, 2024. REUTERS/Saleh Salem

Palestinians walk past the rubble of a house destroyed by an Israeli strike, amid the ongoing conflict between Israel and the Palestinian Islamist group Hamas, in Rafah, southern Gaza Strip, January 1, 2024. REUTERS/Saleh Salem© Thomson Reuters
Israel said its troops had killed dozens of militants in Gaza's north in the past day. Residents said Israeli tanks had shelled parts of the Al-Bureij refugee camp in the central area.The Gaza health ministry said 207 people had been killed in the past 24 hours, bringing the total recorded Palestinian death toll to more than 22,000 in nearly three months of warfare in the Hamas-ruled enclave.

Fullscreen button

People cover bodies with a white sheet on a street following an airstrike on a house in Maghazi camp, Deir al-Balah, central Gaza, January 1, 2024, amid the ongoing conflict between Israel and the Palestinian Islamist group Hamas, in this still image from video obtained from social media. Palestine Red Crescent Society/via REUTERS

People cover bodies with a white sheet on a street following an airstrike on a house in Maghazi camp, Deir al-Balah, central Gaza, January 1, 2024, amid the ongoing conflict between Israel and the Palestinian Islamist group Hamas, in this still image from video obtained from social media. Palestine Red Crescent Society/via REUTERS© Thomson Reuters
Israeli Defence Minister Yoav Gallant said the operations in the south around Khan Younis were focused on areas above the tunnel network where Hamas leaders were believed to be hiding.

"We are reaching them all ways. There already is engagement and there are hostages there too sadly," he told troops in Gaza in footage shown on Israeli television.


"This will continue as high intensity efforts in the heart of Khan Younis," he said.

The latest fighting took place after Israel announced plans to pull back some troops, signalling a new phase in the war against Hamas amid global concern over the plight of Gaza residents.

Israeli bombardments have reduced much of the territory to rubble and engulfed its 2.3 million residents in a humanitarian disaster in which many thousands have been left destitute and threatened by famine due to a lack of food supplies. Israeli officials say the offensive has many months to run.

In a tent camp for displaced Palestinians in Gaza's southern city of Rafah, Shadi Maarouf, his wife Safeya and their six children gathered around a campfire, braving the cold and dark.

After a perilous journey from their home in Beit Lahia in the north, constantly fleeing Israeli air strikes, they ended up in a tent in Rafah with no basic amenities.


"We have nothing. We are living in cold, as you can see. We use straps of clothes for the fire, there is no firewood," Maarouf told Reuters.

"There is no water even to clean up or wash ourselves. If I want to pray, I perform ablution using the sand. There is no drinking water. There is no tent to protect us."

Fullscreen button

Smoke rises over central Gaza following a strike, amid the ongoing conflict between Israel and the Palestinian Islamist group Hamas, as seen from southern Israel, January 1, 2024. REUTERS/Amir Cohen

Smoke rises over central Gaza following a strike, amid the ongoing conflict between Israel and the Palestinian Islamist group Hamas, as seen from southern Israel, January 1, 2024. REUTERS/Amir Cohen© Thomson Reuters
In its daily briefing, the Israeli military said in the past day its forces had targeted militants in Gaza City in the north of the enclave and in unspecified locations along the Mediterranean coast.

"In Jabaliya area, troops killed dozens of terrorists, among them those who attempted to plant explosive devices, others who operated drones and those who were armed identified driving toward the forces," the military said.

Fullscreen button

Israeli soldiers walk next to tanks, amid the ongoing conflict between Israel and the Palestinian Islamist group Hamas, near the Israel-Gaza border, in southern Israel, January 1, 2024. REUTERS/Violeta Santos Moura

Israeli soldiers walk next to tanks, amid the ongoing conflict between Israel and the Palestinian Islamist group Hamas, near the Israel-Gaza border, in southern Israel, January 1, 2024. REUTERS/Violeta Santos Moura© Thomson Reuters
Troops also dismantled rocket launching sites in Khan Younis and in a United Nations school in Al-Bureij, the military said.

Hamas could not be reached for comment on the Israeli reports.

BOMBARDMENTS

Gaza residents said Israeli warplanes and tanks stepped up bombardments of the eastern and northern areas of Khan Younis, where tens of thousands of displaced Palestinians have sought refuge after being forced from their homes elsewhere in the densely-populated territory.


The Palestinian Red Crescent said Israeli forces had hit its headquarters in Khan Younis, resulting in several deaths and wounded among displaced people sheltering there.

At a house in the centre of Khan Younis, medical teams retrieved the bodies of two women killed in an Israeli air strike on Tuesday morning, health officials said.

Another Israeli strike on Al-Nusseirat refugee camp in northern Gaza killed or wounded several people in a house, medics said.

Hamas and its Islamic Jihad allies said in separate statements they had fired mortar bombs and anti-tank rockets against Israeli forces in Khan Younis and were stopping them advancing to the western area. Israel made no comment on these reports.

Defence Minister Gallant said that in the north of Gaza, Israel had destroyed 12 Hamas regiments and only a few thousand militants remained out of 15,000-18,000 that were in the area. Others had fled to the south, he said.


"The significance, tactically, operationally, is that in this area there will be attacks, entering and manoeuvring, special operations. This is to exhaust the enemy, kill it and control the territory."

Hamas showed its continued ability to target Israel after more than 12 weeks of the war, firing rockets at Tel Aviv.

The war was triggered by a surprise Hamas attack on Israeli towns on Oct. 7 that Israel says killed 1,200 people - the bloodiest single day in the Jewish state's 75-year history.

Gaza health authorities say Israel's retaliatory offensive has so far killed at least 22,185 Palestinians, in the deadliest chapter of the decades-long Israel-Palestinian conflict.

NEW PHASE

Israel has promised to wipe out Hamas but it is unclear what it plans to do with the enclave should it succeed in subduing it, and where that leaves the prospect of an independent Palestinian state.


An Israeli official said on Monday the military would reduce its forces inside Gaza this month and shift to a months-long phase of more localised "mopping up" operations.

The troop reduction would allow some reservists to return to civilian life, shore up Israel's war-battered economy, and free up units in case of a wider conflict with the Iran-backed Hezbollah on the border with Lebanon, the official said.

Washington, Israel's main backer, has been urging Israel to reduce the intensity of its military operation in view of the high civilian cost.

A prime concern for Israel is the return or rescue of hostages held by Hamas. The militants seized 240 hostages on Oct. 7 and Israel believes 129 are still held after some were released during a brief truce and others killed during air strikes and rescue or escape attempts.

(Reporting by Maayan Lubell, Dan Williams, Nidal al-Mughrabi and Arafat Barbakh; Writing by Angus MacSwan; Editing by Gareth Jones)
 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
61,291
6,661
113
I agree it is a good thing. I am saying similar to this guy, the other Hamas leaders are in Qatar, so the deaths in Gaza are needless and amount to war crimes and genocide of innocent people who have nothing to do with anything. Go after the actual terrorists. Not the people. But of course Israel won't because they want the land and this is an opportunity.
Are you pretending that the Hamas leaders who planned and led their terrorists across the border on the 7th are in Qatar? Are you pretending the Hamas terrorists launching their war crime rockets from Gaza are pressing the trigger from Qatar?
 
  • Like
Reactions: mandrill

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
61,291
6,661
113
The question is whether Netanyahu is trying to start a full on war with Lebanon and Hezbollah by striking inside Beirut.
...
Crazy anti-semite who blames Israel because they responded to daily Hezbollah strikes that have forced 100,000 Israelis to become displaced people.
 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
61,291
6,661
113
What does that look like to you?

Is that the current leadership surrendering?
How much of it?
Who counts as "leadership"?
Is that everyone who has expressed support for Hamas surrendering?
How much support is enough support to count here?

What happens to Palestine after that?
Are there elections?
Does Israel rule it directly again?
Do they install a puppet government?

I think for some at least, this is the issue with the "Israel is only in there to defeat Hamas" narrative?
It's unclear what people mean by that. (And I suspect different people mean very different things.)
I would hope that the goal is to weaken Hamas both militarily and in public support so that the rest of the Palestinian leadership are willing to negotiate a permanent peace deal.

But considering the US was so angry after 9/11 that it invaded 2 countries with no plans for reconstruction, I doubt current Israeli leadership is thinking too much about the end result of this war that started with a per capita killing of 10-15 times 9/11.
 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
61,291
6,661
113
I am asking, of the 22000+ killed, please show us how many were Hamas. Let us please see the names. It is a reasonable request, no? After 22000 are killed, to want to know how effective the Israeli operation has been?
Hamas launched a war and wars have civilian casualties. From Israel's perspective, effectiveness will be measured by Hamas' ability to commit mass atrocities like they did on the 7th.

How many of the 1200 dead and 250+ kidnapped Israeli civilians targeted by Hamas were in any way influential in Israel's government?
 
  • Like
Reactions: mandrill

mandrill

Well-known member
Aug 23, 2001
75,787
84,989
113
What does that look like to you?

Is that the current leadership surrendering?
How much of it?
Who counts as "leadership"?
Is that everyone who has expressed support for Hamas surrendering?
How much support is enough support to count here?
Most of the in situ leadership will be trapped in Gaza and killed. If they're in the tunnels, the tunnels will be blown in, so there's no egress. Some will undoubtedly disguise themselves and slip out.

The hostages will be murdered by Hamas and will not be rescued.

The Hamas leadership outside Gaza will be betrayed and assassinated 1 by 1 by the Mossad. They'll still be dying now and again 10 years from now.

The entire enclave of Gaza has been brainwashed to support Hamas and hate Israel. Some will change horses after the Israelis stop fighting. Others will silently hate. Like all defeated peoples. It would take a whole generation - maybe 2 or 3 - to change their opinions.
What happens to Palestine after that?
Are there elections?
Does Israel rule it directly again?
Do they install a puppet government?
Best damn question in this entire 12k post thread. No one anywhere has a decent answer. Maybe because there truly isn't one.
I think for some at least, this is the issue with the "Israel is only in there to defeat Hamas" narrative?
It's unclear what people mean by that. (And I suspect different people mean very different things.)
A dumb question: -

The IDF is going to kill Hamas until there's no one left alive or outside captivity. They're about halfway there and they have time and resources to finish the work.
 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
61,291
6,661
113

zsyd1230

Member
Jan 14, 2020
33
36
18
Most of the in situ leadership will be trapped in Gaza and killed. If they're in the tunnels, the tunnels will be blown in, so there's no egress. Some will undoubtedly disguise themselves and slip out.

The hostages will be murdered by Hamas and will not be rescued.

The Hamas leadership outside Gaza will be betrayed and assassinated 1 by 1 by the Mossad. They'll still be dying now and again 10 years from now.

The entire enclave of Gaza has been brainwashed to support Hamas and hate Israel. Some will change horses after the Israelis stop fighting. Others will silently hate. Like all defeated peoples. It would take a whole generation - maybe 2 or 3 - to change their opinions.


Best damn question in this entire 12k post thread. No one anywhere has a decent answer. Maybe because there truly isn't one.

A dumb question: -

The IDF is going to kill Hamas until there's no one left alive or outside captivity. They're about halfway there and they have time and resources to finish the work.
Sorry dont see that happening. Israels offensive seems to be running out of steam. Israel can certainly transition to just assassinating leadership, but i doubt Hamas works that way. Time will tell, if Israel makes no more significant progress on the ground in Gaza, they are in trouble.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kautilya and Klatuu

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
61,291
6,661
113
That is the greatest non-answer gibberish if there ever was one.

Of the 22000+ how many are Hamas? If you dont have a number then you are pretty much committing genocide, in the hopes that a few Hamas people will die in the process. You dont even know how many you are killing and you are talking about measuring Hamas' ability to commit attacks? How exactly would you do that?
Of course you reject the answer because your question is bullshit and disingenuous.

But since you're so amazing and intelligent you can really share your knowledge. If you were in charge of Israel, how would you respond to Hamas' atrocities on the 7th?
 
  • Like
Reactions: mandrill

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
61,291
6,661
113
Sorry dont see that happening. Israels offensive seems to be running out of steam. Israel can certainly transition to just assassinating leadership, but i doubt Hamas works that way. Time will tell, if Israel makes no more significant progress on the ground in Gaza, they are in trouble.
Running out of steam? Interesting interpretation to Israel becoming more precise in their strikes.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mandrill

Klatuu

Well-known member
Dec 31, 2022
5,530
3,217
113
Most of the in situ leadership will be trapped in Gaza and killed. If they're in the tunnels, the tunnels will be blown in, so there's no egress. Some will undoubtedly disguise themselves and slip out.

The hostages will be murdered by Hamas and will not be rescued.

The Hamas leadership outside Gaza will be betrayed and assassinated 1 by 1 by the Mossad. They'll still be dying now and again 10 years from now.

The entire enclave of Gaza has been brainwashed to support Hamas and hate Israel. Some will change horses after the Israelis stop fighting. Others will silently hate. Like all defeated peoples. It would take a whole generation - maybe 2 or 3 - to change their opinions.


Best damn question in this entire 12k post thread. No one anywhere has a decent answer. Maybe because there truly isn't one.

A dumb question: -

The IDF is going to kill Hamas until there's no one left alive or outside captivity. They're about halfway there and they have time and resources to finish the work.
Delusional.
 
Ashley Madison
Toronto Escorts