“I felt like I got kicked”: Ontario man told new EV battery would cost more than $50,000

netsurfer

Active member
Sep 22, 2008
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once governments start losing billions in gasoline taxes they will start slapping EV drivers with some kind of new tax or permit fees etc.
Of course they will, but it will only be a temporary thing, just like all of our other taxes;)
 

silentkisser

Master of Disaster
Jun 10, 2008
4,398
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A friend had a hybrid and he said he would never buy another 1. It was a RAV4.
It only ran on pure battery power if the vehicle was going 40K or slower.
That's great if you drive around a mall parking lot all day.
Then she might have a defective one. I had a buddy how drove a Prius, and it was electric at any speed. Obviously, going faster probably drained the battery quicker, but if the battery is charged, it goes to that.
 

GameBoy27

Well-known member
Nov 23, 2004
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I drive a 2017 plug in hybrid Volt, and my daily commute of 45km uses about 10kWh to recharge from.
Which happens in my garage between 11pm and about 4am.
I also have a hot tub, which consumes about 6kWh a day, typically when the house a/c is not running.
My electric bill is about $180 most months.

The gasoline in the car is only for trips longer than about 90km, which is my average ev charge distance. Then it eats gas at a rate of about 5.5l/100km.

Last year I put 70L of gas in the tank for the whole year. Premium, since it tends to sit in the tank a long time, but maybe $115 worth.
I change the air intake filter and synthetic engine oil about every 3 years, because the ICE does not see very much wear and tear.
Since most of the braking is regenerative to charge the battery, I have yet to need a brake job.

Add up every tank of gas you fill an ICE car with in a year and the number will surprise you at how much it is.
There's a couple things you might want to do to ensure your ICE lasts.

Premium (higher octane) doesn't last any longer than regular fuel. You're wasting your money. Ethanol-gasoline blends have a short shelf life of just two to three months. You should be adding a fuel stabilizer to every tank. Sta-Bil is a good one.

Most manufacturers recommend changing your oil at annually, even if the maintenance reminder hasn't appeared yet. Oil degrades over time as well.

As for adding up every tank of gas, you also have to consider the premium you're paying for a hybrid or EV. If you keep your car for 10 years, it's going to depreciate a lot more than an ICE vehicle as the battery will have less range or even need replacing.

Also, some EV drivers are finding that their tires wear out more rapidly compared to ICE vehicles — in some cases, 20 percent faster.
 

kona

Active member
Dec 29, 2001
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Then she might have a defective one. I had a buddy how drove a Prius, and it was electric at any speed. Obviously, going faster probably drained the battery quicker, but if the battery is charged, it goes to that.
No, I think that is normal operation. I used to rent a Prius through ZIPCar all the time and you can only go so fast before the ICE motor kicks in. The EV motor is really small so if you want power to accelerate, then the car will use both powertrains. Kinda useless unless you are in stop and go traffic. Also, in the wintertime, if you want heat, the ICE will need to be active. That was my first experience with EV and I thought it really sucked and that I would NEVER go EV. Now I drive a tesla and will not be going back to ICE.
 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
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They're going to make ICE based vehicles obsolete and illegal to drive within 10 years and EVs will be too expensive for the average person to afford, so it will literally be a luxury item for the wealthy.

Meanwhile, Elon The Great, Elon Humanity's Saviour, touts the EV revolution as being green.
Sure Elon ..
The all powerful THEY.
 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
62,151
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Exactly! The only selling point of an EV is that it has no emissions. However, it needs huge additions to generation capacity. The mining, manufacturing, disposal of toxic batteries etc all make it environmentally unfriendly.

Greenhouse gases vs pollution are two very different problems. There are chemical ways to deal with the some of the pollution but they are costly. There is currently no effective way to remove enough greenhouse gases from the atmosphere.

It's passing problems down the road but it is some progress.
 
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basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
62,151
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...

And then there is the Gardiner. Can you imagine what will happen to the Gardiner when it is bumper to bumper, stop and go electric vehicles? It is falling apart already. When there is nothing but electric cars and trucks on it, it will collapse, as will many elevated expressways in North America.
...
Um, no. The strength overpasses are built for is far greater than an EV traffic jam. The problem our society has with overpasses is that in our aversion to paying taxes, governments refuse to spend on infrastructure repair and replacement and instead rely on patch jobs which typically end up being far more expensive than just replacing things.
 

Ceiling Cat

Well-known member
Feb 25, 2009
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EV adoption will be like computers, cell phones and flat screen TVs. New tech always come out expensive and the quality gets better as the price goes down. Being the EVs are much more expensive than other new tech it will take many years for the majority of drivers to go electric. I suspect 20 or more years before the majority cars will be electric.
 

xix

Time Zone Traveller
Jul 27, 2002
4,315
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La la land
@Ceiling Cat EV are an environmentally hazard product. Once the Alkaline is used up it can no longer be used. Where will all this waste be thrown out?
EV to me are a heavy waste and burden to the Earth.
I cost money to scrap these vehicles than to fix it.
 

Ceiling Cat

Well-known member
Feb 25, 2009
28,843
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It is early days, I do not condemn nor condone the change over to EVs. Hopefully, I will be long gone before the atmosphere on earth becomes toxic and this world deteriorates into hordes of cacklers and countless U-men wandering the streets at night.
 

tml

Well-known member
Aug 10, 2011
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EV adoption will be like computers, cell phones and flat screen TVs. New tech always come out expensive and the quality gets better as the price goes down. Being the EVs are much more expensive than other new tech it will take many years for the majority of drivers to go electric. I suspect 20 or more years before the majority cars will be electric.
You're comments made me think of the eventual acceptance of digital/ HD TV as the broadcast standard over analogue. When digital broadcasts finally came to North America, consumers were reluctant to buy digital tvs because there was little to no digital programming. The broadcast networks were reluctant to broadcast programming in digital because there weren't enough sets out there to receive them. It actually took government intervention to give the industry a kick in the pants to get things moving.
 

james t kirk

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2001
24,065
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I have a 2012 Infiniti M37, best car I’ve ever owned…just saying.
You got into Infiniti at the right time. Most of their cars now are pieces of shit. But back in the day during the production of the G and the M, they were truly very good cars. They had their weak points (transmissions for one), but all in all, they were great cars. The right amount of performance, bling at the right price point. My favourite was the 2005 and 2006 G35. But that all went for a dump when they renamed everything Q or Qx. Now they are almost in danger of going broke.
 

WoodPeckr

Protuberant Member
May 29, 2002
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North America
thewoodpecker.net
Batteries are only getting better.


The unfortunate reality here is that EVs are in their infancy.

From what I've read/reading, they are close to creating better batteries that last longer, charge faster and will increase range. And the infrastructure for charging stations across Canada/US is growing. While folks like @Jubee seem to think this is some sort of conspiracy to ban driving or force people to live in the dreaded :)rolleyes:) 15 minute cities, EVs are the future
New Battery Crushes Tesla's Tech, Unveils A Solid-State Marvel With 300% Higher Energy Density, 15-minute Ultra-Fast Charge
 

Ahri

Your Asian Escape
Apr 21, 2021
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I was actually in the market for a new car and I was seriously considering an EV but hearing stories like this makes me want to wait a bit longer before committing to an EV
 
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GameBoy27

Well-known member
Nov 23, 2004
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Batteries are only getting better.



New Battery Crushes Tesla's Tech, Unveils A Solid-State Marvel With 300% Higher Energy Density, 15-minute Ultra-Fast Charge
The solid-state batteries sound much better than the current lithium-ion ones. One question though. If these are the wave of the future, will current lithium-ion factories being built, with billions in Canadian subsidies, be easily be retooled to produce solid-state batteries? Or have they put all their eggs in one basket and the firms will once again come looking for billions more in handouts?
 
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kona

Active member
Dec 29, 2001
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Batteries are only getting better.



New Battery Crushes Tesla's Tech, Unveils A Solid-State Marvel With 300% Higher Energy Density, 15-minute Ultra-Fast Charge
Toyota and friends have been talking SS batteries forever. Anyway, it’s cool and all that they have this tech, but can they scale. Tesla has been trying to scale 4680 for years. I think we are still 10 years off from SS batteries.
 

shakenbake

Senior Turgid Member
Nov 13, 2003
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Durham Region, Den of Iniquity
www.vafanculo.it
One thing I never understand is that when I need to get rid of a small AA battery, I’m told I can’t just throw it away like garbage. It has to be disposed in special place so that it can be processed safely. Otherwise it’ll be “poisonous and harmful to the environment”.

And then you have an EV, which literally have several thousands of the same battery tie together and they’re touting this as environmental friendly and “saving the world”.

What am I missing?
You are not missing anything. A defective battery from an EV needs to be handled in an environmentally appropriate manner. It costs to do that properly. We won’t get into the environmental damage that mining and manufacturing the batteries for these vehicles can cause.

look up life cycle analysis for vehicles.
 
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GameBoy27

Well-known member
Nov 23, 2004
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One thing I never understand is that when I need to get rid of a small AA battery, I’m told I can’t just throw it away like garbage. It has to be disposed in special place so that it can be processed safely. Otherwise it’ll be “poisonous and harmful to the environment”.

And then you have an EV, which literally have several thousands of the same battery tie together and they’re touting this as environmental friendly and “saving the world”.

What am I missing?

There's companies that recycle batteries.

10 best lithium-ion battery recycling companies performing cost-effective extraction procedures
  • Umicore. Umicore is a materials technology company specializing in the metals and mining industry based in Brussels, Belgium. ...
  • Glencore. ...
  • Li-Cycle. ...
  • RecycLiCo Battery Materials. ...
  • Sitrasa. ...
  • RECUPYL SAS. ...
  • Neometals. ...
  • Raw Materials Company.
 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
62,151
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There's companies that recycle batteries.

10 best lithium-ion battery recycling companies performing cost-effective extraction procedures
  • Umicore. Umicore is a materials technology company specializing in the metals and mining industry based in Brussels, Belgium. ...
  • Glencore. ...
  • Li-Cycle. ...
  • RecycLiCo Battery Materials. ...
  • Sitrasa. ...
  • RECUPYL SAS. ...
  • Neometals. ...
  • Raw Materials Company.
From people I know in the industry, the main focus of many of the companies is to extract valuable resources from them and the environmental side tends to be as little as they can get away with. I hope that there are some better companies but given the choice between an environmental vision and money...
 
Ashley Madison
Toronto Escorts