“I felt like I got kicked”: Ontario man told new EV battery would cost more than $50,000

[silentkisser]

The unfortunate reality here is that EVs are in their infancy. The infrastructure is still being built, the technology is still being improved. This means growing pains. They will find ways to make a batter replacement significantly cheaper. I wonder if the crazy price is due to supply chain issues/high demand (as in, they are using all the batteries for new production cars). $50K is ridiculous.

From what I've read/reading, they are close to creating better batteries that last longer, charge faster and will increase range. And the infrastructure for charging stations across Canada/US is growing. While folks like @Jubee seem to think this is some sort of conspiracy to ban driving or force people to live in the dreaded rolleyes 15 minute cities, EVs are the future.

Now, all that being said, I won't go for an EV just yet. I think a hybrid is the way to go for when I decide to buy my next vehicle. Never have range anxiety, don't need to spend 20-90 minutes to charge the batter (or wait in line for an available charger) and better milage than a ICE...

 

[explorerzip]

I don't think any battery technology will be faster than filling up a gas tank, even in the future. The only option may be, to remove a battery and plug in a new one, on the go. Battery swapping. This Chinese EV company NIO has been doing it.

I think Tesla considered using swappable batteries, but decided not to. The swappable battery concept makes sense in principle, but I don't see how we can get a standard battery in every vehicle.

Some other intersting developments on making charging faster.

What Will It Take to Charge Electric Vehicles Faster?

To get more EVs on the road, these scientists are working to charge a car in the same time that it takes to fuel up at a gas station

www.smithsonianmag.com

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[RZG]

Another thing being overlooked by many is replacement tire cost. As others have mentioned, the substantial extra weight of an EV, 1000lbs average, punishes tires. Add in the hard hitting torque of the EV, compounds must be more durable and softer to optimize braking considering the weight penalty. I`ve read 30 to 50% price premium especially for a performance vehicle. That may be 3 grand+ for an F150 Lightning, with a lifespan of 30 to 50 thousand miles. This for sure if it is fully implemented in the future will beat the hell outta` the roads, which are already generally beat. As for a realistic timeline...I`ve heard several economic prof`s. mention several decades and hundreds of billions if not trillion dollars to have a reliable, functioning system in place. Good luck with that when over half of Canadians are 200 bucks monthly from insolvency.

 

[explorerzip]

EVs are also at least twice the weight of an ICE vehicle.
This is something that no one is accounting for.

There isn't a single multi-level parking garage in North America that is rated for that kind of weight at max capacity. Which means if anyone actually pays attention, they will have to reduce the number of parking spots in the big cities just to accommodate these things, but what will likely happen is no one will do anything until one collapses.

And then there is the Gardiner. Can you imagine what will happen to the Gardiner when it is bumper to bumper, stop and go electric vehicles? It is falling apart already. When there is nothing but electric cars and trucks on it, it will collapse, as will many elevated expressways in North America.
And no one is even thinking about this? Is anyone even talking about shoring up the Gardiner for the onslaught of Electric Vehicles that will be mandated by law in the very near future?

How can you be so sure that "no one" is accounting for the weight difference between an EV and ICE vehicle?

Secondly, how many EV's need to be stopped bumper to bumper on the Gardiner to cause structural problems let alone a catastropic failure? Semi-trucks are also signifcantly heavier than regular cars. Would their weight be a reason to ban them on the Gardiner?

The EV mandate has to do with new car sales and it's 20% to start with. This doesn't mean that everyone is going to be buying EVs at the same time. Meaning there will be mixture of EV and ICE vehicles on the roads for many years to come.

 

[RZG]

I think that is what we need. Standardization, atleast amongst vehicle classes if swapping were to be an option.

Regarding electric motorcycles, the Japanese big 4 are already on this. Kawasaki has 2 electric bikes on their webpage right now.

 

[explorerzip]

I think that is what we need. Standardization, atleast amongst vehicle classes if swapping were to be an option.

Given that Apple avoided putting a USB C port on their phones for so long, I don't think a standard battery on similar vehicle classes is realistic. The best we can hope for is a standard cable and charging standard.

 

[Uncharted]

How can you be so sure that "no one" is accounting for the weight difference between an EV and ICE vehicle?

Do you see any rush to structurally re enforce any of the thousands of multilevel parking garages by the time they mandate Electric cars only. Some countries are saying as early as 5 to 10 years for such laws to kick into effect.

Secondly, how many EV's need to be stopped bumper to bumper on the Gardiner to cause structural problems let alone a catastropic failure? Semi-trucks are also signifcantly heavier than regular cars. Would their weight be a reason to ban them on the Gardiner?

Do you think these Semi trucks will just go away? They will be there just as much as they are now, only you will have cars weighing twice as much joining them. And once the Semi Trucks go electric, which some in the industry are predicting could start happening at around the same time, then what?

 

[explorerzip]

Do you see any rush to structurally re enforce any of the thousands of multilevel parking garages by the time they mandate Electric cars only. Some countries are saying as early as 5 to 10 years for such laws to kick into effect.

Do you think these Semi trucks will just go away? They will be there just as much as they are now, only you will have cars weighing twice as much joining them. And once the Semi Trucks go electric, which some in the industry are predicting could start happening at around the same time, then what?

I don't spend my time looking at parking garages or roads. Even if I did spend most or all of my time looking, I would have no idea what work was being done as I'm not a structural engineer. I'm guessing that you're not one either because engineers rely on evidence and testing vs some random obsverations.

So when is the magic date when there will be no ICE cars or trucks at all on the road? Which countries are mandating 100% electric vehicles on the road? There is a difference between mandating electric vehicles sales vs how many must be on the road. The day after an EV mandate comes into effect does not mean that all ICE vehicles will suddenly disappear.

I'm not discounting your concerns BTW, but I think the disaster scenario you're painting is a bit much. As with anything else, whether or not a structure can sustain the weight of all vehicles including ICE and EV will depend on a lot of factors like age, and maintenance frequency.

 

[WoodPeckr]

Love leasing my EV! Will never go back to ICE.
Rotating tires is the only maintenance needed!
Level 2 charger in my garage recharges the depleted EV battery overnight in less than 7 hours and costs about 8 bucks USD, giving me 350 to 250 miles/charge depending on seasonal temperatures.

EV battery prices to fall sharply: Goldman Sachs
Goldman Sachs, which predicts EV battery prices will fall a whopping 40% by 2025

EV battery prices to fall sharply: Goldman Sachs

Stellantis (STLA) will partner with Chinese battery manufacturer Contemporary Amperex Technology Co., or CATL, to open a EV battery factory in Europe. The automaker signed a non-binding Memorandum of Understanding, or MoU, with CATL to localize the supply of lithium iron phosphate batteries and...

finance.yahoo.com

Test drove the 2024 Hummer EV....loved it.

 

[WoodPeckr]

EVs are also at least twice the weight of an ICE vehicle.
This is something that no one is accounting for

Actually my EV weighs 400 lbs LESS than the last leased vehicle I turned in.....

 

[bazokajoe]

The unfortunate reality here is that EVs are in their infancy. The infrastructure is still being built, the technology is still being improved. This means growing pains. They will find ways to make a batter replacement significantly cheaper. I wonder if the crazy price is due to supply chain issues/high demand (as in, they are using all the batteries for new production cars). $50K is ridiculous.

From what I've read/reading, they are close to creating better batteries that last longer, charge faster and will increase range. And the infrastructure for charging stations across Canada/US is growing. While folks like @Jubee seem to think this is some sort of conspiracy to ban driving or force people to live in the dreaded rolleyes 15 minute cities, EVs are the future.

Now, all that being said, I won't go for an EV just yet. I think a hybrid is the way to go for when I decide to buy my next vehicle. Never have range anxiety, don't need to spend 20-90 minutes to charge the batter (or wait in line for an available charger) and better milage than a ICE...

A friend had a hybrid and he said he would never buy another 1. It was a RAV4.
It only ran on pure battery power if the vehicle was going 40K or slower.
That's great if you drive around a mall parking lot all day.

 

[WoodPeckr]

I don't think any battery technology will be faster than filling up a gas tank, even in the future. The only option may be, to remove a battery and plug in a new one, on the go. Battery swapping. This Chinese EV company NIO has been doing it.

Yep! Batteries are swapped in China, takes 4 minutes.

China DOES NOT have to deal with BIG OIL which dictates our energy policy and does ALL it can to sabotage the move to EVs.

 

[Ponderling]

The farther this EV business goes, the more it looks like a big scam/sham. No where near ready for prime time. A 1 EV family will be using 25 to 35% more hydro I heard on this mornings news, now add a second vehicle or more....

I drive a 2017 plug in hybrid Volt, and my daily commute of 45km uses about 10kWh to recharge from.
Which happens in my garage between 11pm and about 4am.
I also have a hot tub, which consumes about 6kWh a day, typically when the house a/c is not running.
My electric bill is about $180 most months.

The gasoline in the car is only for trips longer than about 90km, which is my average ev charge distance. Then it eats gas at a rate of about 5.5l/100km.

Last year I put 70L of gas in the tank for the whole year. Premium, since it tends to sit in the tank a long time, but maybe $115 worth.
I change the air intake filter and synthetic engine oil about every 3 years, because the ICE does not see very much wear and tear.
Since most of the braking is regenerative to charge the battery, I have yet to need a brake job.

Add up every tank of gas you fill an ICE car with in a year and the number will surprise you at how much it is.

 

[Ponderling]

I was talking with an engineer friend and I think he said that that the voltage has to go up to make charging speeds go up. But that comes with the tradeoff that the cable has to be thicker. Thicker cables are heavier, costlier and are harder to coil up.

You have it a bit backwards.
Higher voltage allows smaller conductors.
A bit bigger for more insulation the higher voltage needs.

Most of the thick in charger cables these days comes from them being rated for very hard service use.

 

[WoodPeckr]

Prior to getting the EV I was spending about $150/mo for regular grade gasoline.
During past year with the EV I am now spending about $25/mo for its electricity.

A net savings of roughly $125/month and driving the same distances.

 

[explorerzip]

Yep! Batteries are swapped in China, takes 4 minutes.

China DOES NOT have to deal with BIG OIL which dictates our energy policy and does ALL it can to sabotage the move to EVs.

One of the largest oil companies in the world by revenue and production volume is China National Petroleum Corporation (CNPC). So they likely have a lot of influence with the Chinese government. The Chinese government could certainly try to force everyone to switch to electric vehicles if it wanted to.

 

[explorerzip]

You have it a bit backwards.
Higher voltage allows smaller conductors.
A bit bigger for more insulation the higher voltage needs.

Most of the thick in charger cables these days comes from them being rated for very hard service use.

Thanks for catching this. I knew there was some kind of relationship between voltage and cabling thickness, but wasn't positive.

I do know that increasing voltage aka fast-charging also increases heat and that degrades battery performance and life over time. The way around that is to use software to carefully manage how much and how quickly voltage gets to the battery.

 

[saxon]

Prior to getting the EV I was spending about $150/mo for regular grade gasoline.
During past year with the EV I am now spending about $25/mo for its electricity.

A net savings of roughly $125/month and driving the same distances.

For now, once governments start losing billions in gasoline taxes they will start slapping EV drivers with some kind of new tax or permit fees etc.

 

[WoodPeckr]

For now, once governments start losing billions in gasoline taxes they will start slapping EV drivers with some kind of new tax or permit fees etc.

They are already doing this in Texas....a State Big Oil owns.

 

[Sugar4d]

Still bleeding edge technology. There will be growing pains for several more years.