Allegra Escorts Collective

Israel at war

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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A few other things that Hamas is not doing.

Hamas is not providing shelter.
Hamas is not providing fuel.
Hamas is not allowing Gazans to move around freely.
Hamas is not distributing the humanitarian aid and money to the Gazans but keeping it for them selves.
Hamas is not allowing people to speak out against Hamas. They jail them or worse.
Hamas is not allowing elections.
The debate is about whether or not you support genocide, shack.
Have you become the new Nazis or not?

 

richaceg

Well-known member
Feb 11, 2009
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Apartheid has existed for 50 years, progressively worsening. The violence and apartheid/racism feed into each other, so root causes need to be addressed to break the cycle. The root cause of violence is stealing of lands, racism, apartheid, oppression etc., So at the very least a diplomatic solution aimed at making things better in a phased manner has to be pursued.



Yup, that is why 10,000+ Palestinians are dead. And how kind, in agreeing to only bomb them 20 out of 24 hours in a day. Maybe the Israelis needed a bathroom break. Listen to yourself and how in your language your priority for Palestinian lives does not even exist and instead you keep talking about Hamas. You should prioritize protecting Palestinian lives FIRST. Israel's military objectives in taking down Hamas are secondary to Palestinian lives.
that's what happens when you allow terrorists build tunnels under civilian structures....when you declare war with your neighbors, you evacuate your civilians...Hamas obviously have no regard for civilians they're suppose to "protect"...
 

Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
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Yes. Hamas, a terrorist group does not have any regard for civilian lives. That is why they attacked Israeli civilians. That is why they don't help the Palestinians.

But what is the reason for Israel's lack of regard for civilian lives that they have indiscriminately bombed and killed 10,000+ people and counting?

Is it because they are a terrorist state? Or is it because they are racist and are currently engaged in collective punishment and war crimes against the Palestinians? Take your pick. I think it is the latter and I think it is something everyone who cares about international law or humanity in general should unconditionally condemn.
Um, you don't build those tunnels in a vacuum. The population knew. And supported Hamas.

And now as a result they are going to lose that 7km of land.
 

richaceg

Well-known member
Feb 11, 2009
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Yes. Hamas, a terrorist group does not have any regard for civilian lives. That is why they attacked Israeli civilians. That is why they don't help the Palestinians.

But what is the reason for Israel's lack of regard for civilian lives that they have indiscriminately bombed and killed 10,000+ people and counting?

Is it because they are a terrorist state? Or is it because they are racist and are currently engaged in collective punishment and war crimes against the Palestinians? Take your pick. I think it is the latter and I think it is something everyone who cares about international law or humanity in general should unconditionally condemn.
I've taken my pick...Why not call Israel what you intend to call it? Why hide behind a question...what do you think of Israel? there are palestinians who don't support the violence and would gladly evacuate for their safety...then you have palestinians who welcome the violence....and dying in war as long as they take some Jews with them is the ultimate gateway to heaven....does Israel troops just fire on civilian point blank the way Hamas did? No they don't...
 

Dutch Oven

Well-known member
Feb 12, 2019
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Dutch Oven

Well-known member
Feb 12, 2019
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You are actually right about this for once. Same with the 2 old ladies they released earlier as well. They just did not want useless hostages that would require routine care that they could not or did not want to provide. You cannot expect any humanity from terrorist groups. Question is why is Israel acting the same way towards the Palestinians when they are supposed to be better?
Israel is holding old ladies and sick children as hostages? News to me!
 

richaceg

Well-known member
Feb 11, 2009
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Even if they knew, so what ? That gives who the right to kill them? So what if they supported them? It is still a war crime to kill people for their 'support' aka thoughts. Thought crimes are no crimes and are not punishable by death. The only people who deserve to be killed are the ones who ACTED on October 7. Not the innocent civilians and the 5000 children that are dead. You and many others here, and outside of this board, support mass murder of Muslims and Palestinians. Should someone come for you then for your 'thought crime'?



What question have I hid behind?

I have stated very clearly what I think about Israel. Not just in this thread, but even before October 7 in other threads.

I think Israel is an extremely racist, oppressive, apartheid, colonial, Jewish supremacist aka Zionist state, that is currently indiscriminately killing Palestinian civilians and most importantly children, to collectively punish them, with an ulterior motive to push the Palestinians out and steal their lands. This is who you have picked.
So your opinion of them is what I picked? They are far from it...
They accept LGBTQ, they're population is diverse, a lot of asians go there for livelihood and work (such racists), Muslims live harmoniously alongside jews in Israel.... I don't know how you arrived in your opinion about Israel...you're free to have it....
 

mandrill

Well-known member
Aug 23, 2001
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Um, you don't build those tunnels in a vacuum. The population knew. And supported Hamas.

And now as a result they are going to lose that 7km of land.
Not that the population could do anything about it if they tried, I guess.

But I assume that the population's access to information is 100% controlled by HAMAS and they are dragooned and bullied and that means that most of them are sympathetic to HAMAS and its way of doing business.

Just like you can't really blame the German population in the 1930's and 1940's for Hitler and the Nazis, but you can be damned sure that many - if not most - Germans were cheering for Hitler pretty hard, right up until the end.
 

mandrill

Well-known member
Aug 23, 2001
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Why the fuck were those poor, sick, innocent people being held captive to being with?!?!?!.....

And don't give me the standard horseshit about "resistance to the occupation"! A sick 12 year old boy and a 77 year old woman is not "the occupation".

ALL the hostages should be set free and their abductors turned over to the Israeli government for justice and punishment.
 

drewstar

Well-known member
Dec 22, 2009
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I've been calling for Hamas to stop firing rockets...for the sake of the palestinians...a lot of people do...it's falling on deaf ears...you justify Oct 7...you definitely support terrorism...you can twist words, post tweets....at the end of the day...you support Hamas...you celebrate their attacks...then YOU are the terrorist supporters...not a single post I said call for genocide or killing civilians...Why hasn't Hamas released hostages yet? hostages are civilians yes? Why do they keep firing rockets if people are callilng for ceasefire?
Its a double standard. Calling for Hamas to surrender and releaze hostages should have been the FIRST step towards a conflict resolution.

Predictably,

1. The pro palestine cause wont acknowledge that because it would imply (obvious) fault by Hamas.

2. Hamas wont surrender. Which means war. And in war when Hamas kills their “own ppl” and uses them as human shields, what do they expect IDF to do? Ground assault would be necessary but more IDF casualties would occur.

3. Ceasfire? People arent thinking rationally. You cant reason with terrorists. Resolving the issue with a 2 state solution has been rejected everytime. Simply put, the pro palestine side isnt offering any realistic peace resolution. It sucks that palestinian civilians are dying. Whose fault is that? Depends who you ask, but for me the onus is on Hamas and their supporters.
 

richaceg

Well-known member
Feb 11, 2009
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Why the fuck were those poor, sick, innocent people being held captive to being with?!?!?!.....

And don't give me the standard horseshit about "resistance to the occupation"! A sick 12 year old boy and a 77 year old woman is not "the occupation".

ALL the hostages should be set free and their abductors turned over to the Israeli government for justice and punishment.
Welp....Hamas launched an attack on Oct 7...killed civilians point blank, burn kibbutz, kill children, kidnapped civilians....klatuu probably don't think all of that happened and just showing you how kindhearted Hamas are...
 
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Klatuu

Well-known member
Dec 31, 2022
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Why the fuck were those poor, sick, innocent people being held captive to being with?!?!?!.....

And don't give me the standard horseshit about "resistance to the occupation"! A sick 12 year old boy and a 77 year old woman is not "the occupation".

ALL the hostages should be set free and their abductors turned over to the Israeli government for justice and punishment.
Tell that to the thousand plus Palestinians, including women and children, held without charge, access to a lawyer and without any disclosed evidence. Add another couple of thousand Palestinians in jail on trumped up charges.
 
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mandrill

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Aug 23, 2001
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Tell that to the thousand plus Palestinians, including women and children, held without charge, access to a lawyer and without any disclosed evidence. Add another couple of thousand Palestinians in jail on trumped up charges.
No. You don't get to excuse war atrocities against innocent people by vaguely saying that the other side does bad things as well.

Smarten up! Own that you support HAMAS - terrorist pigs that should be lined up in front of a fucking wall and shot - and admit that those Israeli hostages need to be released right now!
 
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shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
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Toronto
Everyone is responsible and accountable for their own actions.

Hamas is responsible for the terror attack, hostage taking and other war crimes they committed.
And therefore responsible for Israel's response (which they knew was coming but didn't care) and right to defend itself. They have declared war on Israel. We are seeing the consequences of war. They knowingly put their own people at risk.

You reap what you sow.


Not sure what you mean here. 80% of countries do not support Israel, because they know that Israel is morally wrong.
Talk is cheap. What actions have they taken to help Gazans? They're not even taking refugees. They talk but do NOTHING to help.

Or are you saying that moral standards are set by the west? Because the west that includes Germany has committed far more acts of agression against the Jews than anyone else.
Morals change continuously. It used to be ok to have slaves. Not now. Germany of 100 years ago is not the Germany of now.

We live our daily lives by the moral standards of the west. Or should we live our lives by Hamas' moral standards.


Where is the justification in my statement for October 7? Point it out to me. Especially because I explicitly called out October 7 as a terrorist attack.
And in the same breath you talk about 75 years of oppression and how that can't be separated from what happened. We can't live in vacuum you. So you say you condemn Oct. 7 and then give justification for it. You can't legitimately talk out of both sides of your mouth.


I am not sure about genocide, but apartheid for sure.
South Africa created it and set the terms. It was discrimination of their own citizens based on skin colour. In ANY country of the world no non-citizens get the same rights as legitimate citizens do.

Are Gazans treated differently than Israelis? Sure. But come up with another term because "by definition" it is not apartheid.

Oh! And by the way, the fact that Israel has instituted measures against Gaza that are oppressive DID NOT HAPPEN IN A VACUUM (Back at ya'.). Rockets were being fired from Gaza.

Amnesty is a joke and is clearly anti-Israeli. Not at all impartial. From Wikipedia:

In 2010 Frank Johansson, the chairman of Amnesty International-Finland called Israel a nilkkimaa, a derogatory term variously translated as "scum state", "creep state" or "punk state".[47][48] Johansson stood by his statement, saying that it was based on Israel's "repeated flouting of international law", and his own personal experiences with Israelis. When asked by a journalist if any other country on earth that could be described in these terms, he said that he could not think of any

In November 2012, Amnesty UK began a disciplinary process against staffer Kristyan Benedict, Amnesty UK campaigns manager, because of a posting on his Twitter account, said to be anti-semitic, regarding three Jewish members of parliament and Operation Pillar of Defense where he wrote: "Louise Ellman, Robert Halfon and Luciana Berger walk into a bar ... each orders a round of B52s .

In the April 2015 annual Amnesty International UK AGM, delegates voted (468 votes to 461) against a motion proposing a campaign against antisemitism in the UK. The debate on the motion formed a consensus that Amnesty should fight "discrimination against all ethnic and religious groups", but were divided over the issue of an anti-racism campaign with a "single focus". The Jewish Chronicle noted that Amnesty International had previously published a report on discrimination against Muslims in Europe. NGO monitor released a statement saying the decision "highlights the hypocrisy and moral bankruptcy of what was once a leader in human rights advocacy


Those are not the words and actions of impartial people.
 

drewstar

Well-known member
Dec 22, 2009
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This is pushed as a war with Hamas. But that is a fake narrative. This is a war to take land from the Palestinians and ethnically cleanse the region off of them.
So you admit this is war and not genocide?

What should the IDF do? Ask Hamas to come to the negotiating table aftee 1400+ were slaughtered? Ground assault? Do nothing?
 
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shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
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Toronto
That actually only proves Israel's intent to bomb civilian establishments that have no military value,
The opposite.

It proves that Israel knows that there are tunnels and/or military in the area and wants to warn civilians to get out of the way.
 
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richaceg

Well-known member
Feb 11, 2009
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Oh if they accept LGBTQ people! Why are they racist? Well, look at their opinions, several of which I posted on this thread, regarding the Palestinians. Of course they are racist.
You just labelled the entire Israel racist as a whole...How many Israelis do you know personally? I've been to tel aviv, I've been to Saudi, I've been to Qatar...as an Asian, I haven't been treated badly in all 3...and I know people who live there...and having lived there briefly, I can't come up with an opinion that would deem Israelis, Arabs (Saudi & Qatar) as racist towards another race...
 
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