Will Israelis or Palestinians Win the PR War?

[Robert Mugabe]

I am getting tired of this cunt.

Paula Newton CNN was interviewing him tonight and pointed out that she was in Gaza years before when Israel used pinpoint attacks. This isn't happening now. He was explaining the bombing of the refugee camp was necessary because it destroyed a tunnel and also killed a dozen or so Hamas leaders.
No evidence of either claim. Why would Hamas leaders be hanging around a refugee camp? Where is the destroyed tunnel?
The scale of this shit has gone way beyond any way back. It is apocalyptic.

 

[richaceg]

Yes, now it is. Since the conflict has started again. But that is the purpose of making compromises and working on peace, for those things to not happen. The issues are not just from one side.

The thing is, when there's peace talks...Israel shows up to discuss it....what do they get from the other side? More rockets, more propaganda against Arab countries in the UN forum...

 

[mandrill]

That was Hezbollah, not the state of Lebanon. But that is part of the peace process that Israel needs to work on.

Ain't no "peace process". HAMAS has a mandate to rid Palestine of Jews. They are not going to co exist.

Why should they? They belong there. I would also say the other Arab nations not allowing them is to not allow Israel to steal everything for themselves, because the moment the Palestinians leave, Israel will put their problems on the other Arab nations, and take the land for themselves.

Listen. The Israelis grabbed that land in '48 - 75 years ago. They have the best army in the Middle East and nukes. The land is now theirs. It's mean and unfair, I know. But that's reality. It's time for the Arab nations to assist the Gazans to move elsewhere.

My point is, that is true of Israelis too. Many Israelis will tell you about how God gave them that land, and how Palestinians are occupiers and should go away! Which is rich. lol. Many Israelis will support collective punishment, which is just another fancy word for terrorism.

The point being, that Israelis have the several of the same attitudes we accuse Palestinians of - the massive racism often culturally driven, religiously driven politics, the unreasonable and uncompromising attitudes, blaming the other side as if they haven't made any errors. It is just that they are richer, and more educated so they know how to tone it down, and when they do say outrageous shit, they know how to word it and paint themselves as the victims. On top of that they have a huge diaspora in the west, along with very effective political messaging. They also know how to leverage the holocaust. I mean cant say anything critical of Israel. Its antisemitism. They've been using the "Never Again" slogan for this terror attack. Really? A nuclear weapons state, using "Never Again" for a Hamas terror attack (as terrible as that is, its still not a holocaust level crime!).

I could say equally critical shit about the Palestinians. But the issues aren't just from one side.

Your argument would have been a lot more persuasive before October 7. October 7 underlines the fact that HAMAS will no co exist with Israel. There's got to be one sole winner from this and it's almost certain to be Israel.

Is Israel lily white?..... Fuck, no! No one's arguing that. But if I was Israel, I would do everything I could to ensure that 7 October never happened again and to protect my people. If that involves wiping out 99% of Gaza, I'd do that too.

 

[richaceg]

bibi is not good for any prop td for peace but driving the Palestinians into the sea is not the reason de etra for Israel. Israel has been trying to make peace for 70 years. The encroachment of the settlements has occurred because there has been no peace. The settlements are not the Palestinians fault but you cannot deny the connection. Israel in the past has said it would abandon many settlements as part of a peace deal but the apparent expectations by Palestinian leadership that they achieve 100% of their demands is a non starter as is the so-called right of return.

We're all in agreement that Bibi will have his day in court....as for the settlements....when Israel pulled out in Gaza in 2005...a lot of the settlers were opposed to it and IDF dragged their asses off against their will...IDF also informed them that anybody left will be on their own....There was no transition of power....IDF left....Hamas took over and the rest was history....there's a lot of propaganda going on that cutting off power and water is "genocide" and "violation of human rights"...I would agree to those sentiments if it were true....Israel supplies palestinians with an agreed amount...they have given reports of excess to the agreed amount...As for power, Gazans used to get 2 sources (egypt and israel....look up what happened there, seems to be the result of in fighting between PA (Palestinian Authority) and Hamas....Oct 7 just made it worst...If you look at it deeply enough, you know a shit show when you see one...
-Hamas & PA contracts IEC (Israel Electric Company) to supply power for Gaza & West Bank (why not get it from Jordan and Saudi?) Somehow palestinians find that Egypt was the unreliable source of power than Israel (LOL).

 

[Frankfooter]

Ain't no "peace process". HAMAS has a mandate to rid Palestine of Jews. They are not going to co exist.

Bullshit, they've negotiated for ceasefires repeatedly, in 2014 ran a voluntary ceasefire on their end for 4 years and their charter says they will support the two state solution if Palestinians want it. Repeating debunked Hasbara talking points just makes you look stupid.

Listen. The Israelis grabbed that land in '48 - 75 years ago. They have the best army in the Middle East and nukes. The land is now theirs. It's mean and unfair, I know. But that's reality. It's time for the Arab nations to assist the Gazans to move elsewhere.

No, that won't happen. There are already 5 million Palestinian refugees that the Arab nations are paying to host. I know its the wet dream of racial supremacists to eliminate the savages but if they try, Israel's pariah status would make North Korea look like a tourist destination.

Israel is stuck with the Palestinians, either end the occupation and give them back their country or end apartheid and give them full human rights, including the vote. And we all know that they are the majority. Too bad.

Your argument would have been a lot more persuasive before October 7. October 7 underlines the fact that HAMAS will no co exist with Israel. There's got to be one sole winner from this and it's almost certain to be Israel.

Is Israel lily white?..... Fuck, no! No one's arguing that. But if I was Israel, I would do everything I could to ensure that 7 October never happened again and to protect my people. If that involves wiping out 99% of Gaza, I'd do that too.

Its the same argument they made in 2008, 2011, 2014, 2018, 2021 and 2022 after they attacked Gaza. Each time they were stopped by international pressure. Each time they claimed they were going to eliminate Hamas.

Genocide or Ethnic Cleansing are the most fucking evil solutions you can think of.
You're a full on Nazi thinking final solution if that's what you're pushing, Mandrill.

Is that what you really want now?

 

[Robert Mugabe]

Okay, Napoleon. How would YOU fight this war?

Bearing in mind that HAMAS has tunneled under a hospital and other civilian structures?

I don't know. Randomly bomb civilians and level the country from top to bottom. Claim you have the exact intel on where Hamas are and claim you killed a specific number of them each time. With no proof to back it up and nobody to challenge your claim. Claim you are destroying their tunnel network with no evidence that you have done so other than flatten all the buildings on top of alleged tunnel network. I haven't seen a shed of evidence of either claim.
Israel's intelligence and military are looking more like the George W Bush administration.
They had an open air Hamas training compound within a mile of their border, operating in full daylight with mock up village with fighters practicing attacks for 2 years.
Their response to this was looking something like shit from the beginning. Now it looks like complete shit.
Show me the tunnels! Show me the dead Hamas fighters!

 

[richaceg]

And the Palestinians get more settlements, more arrests, more unlawful detentions, more settler attacks etc.....

You can definitely see the difference..State of Israel police their borders. Hamas don't. they are too busy scheming their next plan of attack. They have no concrete plan to make the lives of palestinians better....they are hell bent on cleansing the world of Jews....it's as if they welcome the aggression just so they can launch the next cycle of attacks....other than a few skirmishes between settlers and palestinians, Israel in general don't invite violence...well maybe not, i'm sure there are Israelis who would want to go to war, there are americans like that too, Russians, Germans etc etc...

“When peace comes we will perhaps in time be able to forgive the Arabs for killing our sons, but it will be harder for us to forgive them for having forced us to kill their sons. Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us.”

 

[Frankfooter]

“When peace comes we will perhaps in time be able to forgive the Arabs for killing our sons, but it will be harder for us to forgive them for having forced us to kill their sons. Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us.”

Holy fucking wife beater defence.
That's twisted.

 

[richaceg]

I don't disagree about Hamas.

But I am saying, we should unequivocally condemn both sides.

It is not true that Israel does not incite violence. They do. The settlers do incite violence, protected by the army. The other day I watched a video, where a bunch of settlers, armed, went to a Palestinian home, and at gun point drove them away and literally took their house! The army declared it a military zone providing protection for those Jews and now the Palestinian family is without a home.

So Israel also talks though both sides of their mouth. On the one hand they will talk about peace, but at the same time they will indulge in violence, land grabbing etc.,

This is one of those conflicts, where you cannot and should not take sides. People should feel moral dilemma. Because there are dirtbags in power on both sides, and they don't seem to actually care about finding lasting solutions.

I don't disagree there...palestinians are in the recipient of the shortest stick in this conflict...the easiest person to manipulate are those that are desperate and got nothing to lose....give them an inch of hope and they will do almost anything you want....That's how Hamas got the palestinians to play their game...Egypt, Jordan and Lebanon learn their lessons about Hamas. They would take over anyone (including Arab States) if they can...Like I said, If Hamas actually police their borders, They have every right to drive settlers away.

 

[richaceg]

Holy fucking wife beater defence.
That's twisted.

Is that all you can say?

 

[richaceg]

Hamas is in Gaza though, not the West Bank, which is where the settlers grab land.

Then PA needs to do a better job in their border. That's always a puzzle to me....Gaza and West Bank are Arab settlements, yet they rely on Israel for water and power...Not from Jordan and Egypt...I'm still looking into some sort of reparations between Israel and the palestinians in both areas...I will admit...."i don't know everything and still learning about underlying agreements and treaties in the ME....

 

[richaceg]

Israel controls everything. They control, land, air and sea. They do not allow construction material and the like, they police everything that goes in and out of Gaza and that includes food, water, power etc.,. There are only 2 points through which things can enter Gaza - one in the north and one in the south. This is why in 2014, they counted calories that were required by people to not starve, during the war, and only allowed the right amount of calories to go in. Can you imagine people controlling calories of food?

It is kind of the same in the West Bank. The West Bank is divided into 3 - Area A, Area B and Area C. Area C makes up 60% of West Bank, that is completely in Israel's control.

Area A and B are Palestinian. Area A (18%) - is administered by the PA. Area B (22%) - is administered by PA, but shared security control with Israel.

Area A and B are the blue and dark blue below. As you can see, it is just a bunch of enclaves. These enclaves are further separated by 30 foot walls, checkpoints and the like, controlling everything that goes in or out. People from the West Bank can't even go to Gaza to meet their extended relatives etc., They cannot go to other countries like Jordan, without jumping through a million hoops. Then there is the ID system - green ID, blue ID etc., Can you imagine living like this?

And THEN, there are the laws. If a Palestinian in the West Bank kills a Jewish guy, then he is subjected to military court. But if a Jewish settler kills a Palestinian he is subject to Israeli civil and criminal law. This according to the UN is unjust and unfair trials.

I could go on. Its very unjust and racist over there. Its literally apartheid.

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If these are all verified what has the UN done to solve this?

 

[shack]

Holy fucking wife beater defence.
That's twisted.

Debunked argument.

 

[richaceg]

The UN is useless.

That we can agree definitely...for decades now.

 

[nottyboi]

Israel and the US are losing the PR battle. all they are doing is engaging in mass murder. Their first hostage rescue attempt ended up with 18 out of 20 dead hostages and 8 hamas KIA. The hostages were all killed by Israeli fire.

 

[Dutch Oven]

A very easy principle for the public to absorb is: "Who started this fight, and how did they start it". A much more subtle, and much less interesting point to most is: "Did the person who didn't start the fight use the absolulute minimum force to end the fight?"

On that basis, Israel will always ultimately win these PR wars (with anyone persuadable) because THEY DIDN"T START THIS FIGHT, AND WHAT STARTED IT WAS ABOMINABLE!

 

[Dutch Oven]

A picture is worth a thousand words.

Israel cannot recreate the same pictures that Gaza can. Even if they post images of the terror attacks on October 7, it will pale in comparison to what Gaza can show you.

And therefore Israel will lose the PR war.

They will however, retain, western political support as usual.

Gaza was a s*hole even before it was bombed. Pictures only obscure the facts for the unpersuadable fanatics who support Hamas.

 

[nottyboi]

All you guys decrying Russia for genocide and Israel has killed more civves such a short time vs Russia.

 

[richaceg]

All you guys decrying Russia for genocide and Israel has killed more civves such a short time vs Russia.

Did Ukraine crossed over to Russia and targetted civilians and held hostages then had a victory parade in the streets of Kiev?

 

[Dutch Oven]

Sure, but it wasn't rubble with dead mutilated bodies underneath it.

Yes, it was.