PLXTO

Israel at war

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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Exactly what a few naive idealist like Frank and Klatuu here utterly refuse to see and admit. There is not one, shred of past behavior or history they can point at, that would encourage hope for peace. In fact only the opposite. Either for Israel, or the world.

I know xmontrealer. Go back to page 1. My initial thoughts were.
A ) hoping for a fast end
B) that it wouldn’t escalate

Near as I can see not much has changed other than a bunch of naive people and Palestinian and/or Hamas supporters are crying for ceasefires.

Notice none of them ( here or out there) are demanding the same of Hamas, IJ, Hezbollah, Iran.?
Don't be an idiot.
If you call for ceasefire that's a call for all parties to stop fighting.
Then investigate and charge all who committed war crimes and/or terrorism.


 

shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
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There are 10's of millions of people with views like mine
Out of 8 billion? LOL.

Like I've said before, you're clearly a fringe element.

Regardless, I was talking about TERB. You have a well-deserved bad reputation for being a hateful person. And it's because of the views you espouse that, as even you said, the world hates. That's how you're widely viewed here.

Do you think that Gaza's or Hamas' situation will improve once this current conflict is done with?

Or will the Oct. 7 attack result in another setback for your side? A stupidly repetitious and avoidable setback.

Please enlighten us with your instincts and political savvy. Most likely your answer will just be more questions. You seem incapable of giving a straight answer.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
91,058
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Out of 8 billion? LOL.

Like I've said before, you're clearly a fringe element.

Regardless, I was talking about TERB. You have a well-deserved bad reputation for being a hateful person. And it's because of the views you espouse that, as even you said, the world hates. That's how you're widely viewed here.

Do you think that Gaza's or Hamas' situation will improve once this current conflict is done with?

Or will the Oct. 7 attack result in another setback for your side? A stupidly repetitious and avoidable setback.

Please enlighten us with your instincts and political savvy. Most likely your answer will just be more questions. You seem incapable of giving a straight answer.
You are part of a tiny, angry, racist group.

 

Not getting younger

Well-known member
Jun 29, 2022
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Don't be an idiot.
If you call for ceasefire that's a call for all parties to stop fighting.
Then investigate and charge all who committed war crimes and/or terrorism.


Lol, Terbs clown and village idiot opens his yap again. No it’s not. Else the protest, post such as yours would seek to put as much pressure on Iran, Hamas PIJ etc

Ok, idiot.
how do you propose to ensure the ceasefire last more than a “few days” this time. And if/when it doesn’t what will you do. Other than whine more about Israel and expect them to rollover.
 

Not getting younger

Well-known member
Jun 29, 2022
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Ceasefires are temporary measures anyway. Lasting solutions need to be found to work toward permanent peace.
Maybe. I think Nazi Germany would dissagree, as would many others…

How will you ensure they keep the peace, and what will you do when they don’t? And is there anything you can point at, that suggest there’s hope for it to begin with?
 

DinkleMouse

Well-known member
Jan 15, 2022
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The only lesson that Israel learns is that they have to keep hitting back harder until the fruitless attacks must stop. Failure to learn that is the epitome of stupidity.
Can you name a time in history when the strategy you're proposing Israel employs has been successful? I can't. In fact, every time I can think of this strategy being used, it's only made things worse.

Besides, you're basically proposing the same strategy Israel has been employing for decades: hitting back harder and harder. Israel has proven that for every Israeli citizen killed by Hamas, they will kill multitudes of Palestinians. Yet Hamas' power hasn't waned. As I said above, Israel's strategy of hit harder than we get hit has made Hamas stronger and increased support for them amongst Palestinians.

Is there a reason you think if they keep hitting harder and harder it will eventually work when that has not had the desired effect up until now? And unless you can name when this worked in history, is there any reason why you think this strategy will work for Israel when it's never worked for anyone else?
 

toguy5252

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2009
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Can you name a time in history when the strategy you're proposing Israel employs has been successful? I can't. In fact, every time I can think of this strategy being used, it's only made things worse.

Besides, you're basically proposing the same strategy Israel has been employing for decades: hitting back harder and harder. Israel has proven that for every Israeli citizen killed by Hamas, they will kill multitudes of Palestinians. Yet Hamas' power hasn't waned. As I said above, Israel's strategy of hit harder than we get hit has made Hamas stronger and increased support for them amongst Palestinians.

Is there a reason you think if they keep hitting harder and harder it will eventually work when that has not had the desired effect up until now? And unless you can name when this worked in history, is there any reason why you think this strategy will work for Israel when it's never worked for anyone else?
What strategy would you propose?
 

Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
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The Middle East images on the news are horrifying. Israel has initiated its ground offensive. Its going to be an intense battle, with terrible losses of life on both sides.

Hamas is constantly releasing videos of the death and destruction caused by the Israeli attacks. I would like all the videos of the Oct. 7 attack released to the public, so that the world will see exactly what extreme war crimes Hamas was guilty of, and why Israel’s retaliation is so severe. Hamas is clearly winning the propaganda war.

Hezbollah is already involved in small attacks on US forces in the region, with the US retaliating on a small scale. Iran is backing both Hezbollah and Hamas. I fear that this could get extremely ugly with escalating hostilities between the US and the Arab countries in the region, not to mention Turkey, and even Russia, if the US were to attack Iran. Even China is now getting involved, blaming Israel for the hostilities, and even the Jews in the Western world for their support of Israel.

In my opinion Israel has gotten more than enough payback for Oct. 7. I do not feel there is any positive outcome possible from more hostilities. In fact I feel that the longer it goes on the more the hostilities will spread, with potential for a wide-spread war involving many countries.

I do not believe Hamas can be defeated without unacceptable Israeli soldier casualties, and the Arab children are so indoctrinated against the Israelis that there will be more Hamas recruits for generations to come.

It is time for a cease fire, and serious negotiations, when the emotions have settled down, for a 2 state solution that accepts Israel’s right to exist, and gives the Palestinians their own land, without the apartheid they have had to endure for many years. Of course this will require a much more moderate government to be in power in Israel for this to be achieved. Netanyahu must go.

I realize that I have changed my views from being optimistic for a victory over Hamas, to a more realistic one, in my opinion, that Hamas cannot be eradicated. A mutually acceptable and peaceful 2 state solution must finally be found...
Except they won't accept a 2 state solution. Ever.

This is only going to end with a winner.
 
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shack

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Oct 2, 2001
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Ben Shapiro's 2000 year biblical history of how Jews used to live there, neither means anything for the present day situation in Israel nor justifies the creation of Israel in the first place.
At its face value, you are correct. However, it is a fair counterpoint to the many Palestinians who claim to have the right to the land based on ancient history.

It's the same argument but coming from the other side.

Where is the proper starting point in time? I don't think it's been established.
 
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Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
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Can you name a time in history when the strategy you're proposing Israel employs has been successful? I can't. In fact, every time I can think of this strategy being used, it's only made things worse.

Besides, you're basically proposing the same strategy Israel has been employing for decades: hitting back harder and harder. Israel has proven that for every Israeli citizen killed by Hamas, they will kill multitudes of Palestinians. Yet Hamas' power hasn't waned. As I said above, Israel's strategy of hit harder than we get hit has made Hamas stronger and increased support for them amongst Palestinians.

Is there a reason you think if they keep hitting harder and harder it will eventually work when that has not had the desired effect up until now? And unless you can name when this worked in history, is there any reason why you think this strategy will work for Israel when it's never worked for anyone else?
The correct solution is not to stop until there is unconditional surrender. Ceasefires don't work, negotiated settlements don't work. Just delay things. The animosity festers and grows.

Pretty much the Sri Lankin example is the one needed here imo.
 

shack

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You are part of a tiny, angry, racist group.
The vast majority of people here are denigrating YOU and your views.
You are on the fringes.

1698602870426.png
 

Not getting younger

Well-known member
Jun 29, 2022
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Where does Nazi Germany come into the picture here? Where is the comparison? How do you know they wont keep the peace if solutions are found? So nothing has worked till now, because of mistakes on BOTH sides, so what shall we do now? Keep doing the same things that dont work and haven't worked or pursue something both sides can agree to?
You don’t know that peace has lasted?

“you don’t know”
Nor do you. But what does history tell you. As I said, you can’t point to anything that suggest yet another peace agreement will last. Do you have anything, anything at all. Thats suggest this time it will and Hamas, any other terrorist group in the area, or state will abide by it.

And what do you propose Israel do if history repeats itself.
 
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shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
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The Palestinians are not making that demand based on ancient history, but based on 100 year history, where they were the majority in the region. However this is still in the past. The proper starting point is ideally, today. May be 1967.
How about 1948 when the U.N. decided the borders? That sounds like the most fair date.

Israel acquired those borders by negotiated world consensus. No violence/force was involved.
 

shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
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Can you name a time in history when the strategy you're proposing Israel employs has been successful?
Every single time.

If their strategy would not have worked, they'd have been driven into the sea with each Arab attack.

The Israelis are not dinks.

A better question would be, when has the Palestinian strategy been successful? Which aggression furthered their cause?
 
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