"Israel, Similar to Apartheid": Ekos Canada Poll

toguy5252

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2009
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Are you joking? Historical borders? Historically Israel didn't even exist and the entire land belonged to Palestinians. An agreement on land division absolutely must be based on numbers, it doesn't make any sense to give more land to the population with less numbers. Nobody is recognizing the right of an illegitimate state giving bad proposals.
Well that is the problem. Isreal has existed for over 5000 years. And will be around for another 5000. The sooner you and Hamas recognize and accept that the sooner there will be a real possibility of peace.
 
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Frankfooter

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Apr 10, 2015
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Any agreement on land has nothing to with a division based upon numbers. It has to with certain historical borders and what will be necessary swaps. I agree that many of the settlements pose a problem but Isreal has always said they would've up some as part of a negotiated swap in order to create a land link between the WB and Gaza. Until Hamas recognized the right of Isreal to exist within secure borders that will not happen. Sad
Problem?

They are all illegal according to the UN. Every one.
Same with the occupation, its also illegal according to the UN.

Arguing that you'll swap out some desert for the choice bits you want isn't going to cut it any more.
There isn't enough land left and Israel won't give up any of those illegal settlements.
So you're stuck with the one state.

Which means its down to a campaign to end apartheid.
Which a majority of Canadians will support.
 

toguy5252

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Jun 22, 2009
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I get that you are nationalistic, but that has nothing to do with reality that Israel did not exist in modern times until its official formation in 1948.
Did Palestine exist? It was almost part of the British mandate. As an aside, how many countries in the Middle East exited 100 years ago in their present borders. Do yourself a favor and pick up a history book.
 

toguy5252

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Jun 22, 2009
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Except I've actually cited more of the historical record than you. You clearly don't know anything about this geopolitical situation.
Lol. You have cited nothing historical. You have cited Palestinian talking points.
 

Klatuu

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Dec 31, 2022
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The U.N. says it is........
The UN supports the Right of Return.
Israel did not objectively exist at the time. So the Palestinians did not agree to Israel's formation.

If you think about it, UK a foreign country that has no claim to the land, except for the fact that they colonized it, in order to assuage their guilt of a) Not doing anything for Jews in Europe and b) To mask their own anti-semitism during WW2 to the point that they refused to take in Jews who were fleeing, saw this as an "out".

They basically gave someone else's land to a third party, and then spun it off as the right and the moral thing to do.

Israelis even today will not accept a democratic, secular Israel with equal rights for everyone. Israel does not even have inter-religious marriage laws today! They do this deliberately to maintain the Jewishness of their state.

I know you are Jewish (or I think you are), so I don't mean to offend. I am not anti-Jewish, but I am just calling out that the more aggrieved party here are actually the Palestinians.
toguy is one of those on this board who supports an ethnostate. But, he can always disavow the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians.
 
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Klatuu

Well-known member
Dec 31, 2022
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Well that is the problem. Isreal has existed for over 5000 years. And will be around for another 5000. The sooner you and Hamas recognize and accept that the sooner there will be a real possibility of peace.
Fiction. The kingdom of Israel existed for a very brief time an extremely long time ago (thousands of years ago…..yeah, you heard right) in a land that has been home to countless other people before and since. Your racist story ignores historical reality and the equality of other peoples.
 
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Darts

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Jan 15, 2017
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Partition of land has almost always been contentious and maybe even have resulted in violence.

For example, look what happened when the Brits created Pakistan/Bangladesh out of India.

I lived through this kind of debate when I lived in Quebec and talk of separation was at its highest.

Question: Weren't the Palestinians offered their own homeland but declined?
 

basketcase

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Dec 29, 2005
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A lot of what they have forcefully taken over the last 7 decades is not their soil.
Too bad the Palestinian leadership aren't willing to share the land with Jews. Otherwise a peace deal could have been negotiated decades ago.
 

basketcase

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Dec 29, 2005
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The idea of land swaps has been approved by the UN, the Arab League, and the PA. The only actual discussion was exactly how much and which land should be swapped.

Unfortunately, a peace deal means both sides need to accept some kind of peace that is acceptable to both sides and as of yes, neither the current Israeli government nor any of the Palestinian leadership seem interested in living with the other.
 

basketcase

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Dec 29, 2005
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Are you joking? Historical borders? Historically Israel didn't even exist and the entire land belonged to Palestinians. ....
Um, the entire land belonged to the Brits and before that the Ottomans (and under the Ottomans, the province also included Lebanon, much of Syria and Jordan. The last self-rule in the region before 1948 was before the Romans.
 

basketcase

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Dec 29, 2005
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I get that you are nationalistic, but that has nothing to do with reality that Israel did not exist in modern times until its official formation in 1948.
Palestine has never existed in a historical context so I don't think that's a winning argument. The only real question is how to convince millions of Israelis and the millions of Palestinians to accept that neither will have a land that is free of their 'enemy'.
 

basketcase

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Dec 29, 2005
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...

Only one party was given consideration during the formation of Israel.
Bullshit. You may argue that the UN partition wasn't completely balanced but as the Arab and Palestinian leadership rejected it and chose war, it is pretty dumb to blame only Israel.

The only major party in the 20th century that wasn't given any consideration was the Kurds. (okay I'm sure there's more but at least in the ME it's true).
 
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