This is bullshit! Sudbury man refused kidney transplant due to vaccination status dies

Jenesis

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Turns out you DO need a flu shot to get a transplant:


I'm curious why you think the COVID vaccine is different that any other vaccine?
To my understanding a vaccine like what we get when we are kids stops transmission while this shot does not. It is not a typical “vaccine” and is just a preventative shot like the flu. I’m open to being wrong about that though. Regarding the other vaccines. I know what the COVID shot can and can’t do.

And the flu shot - it is recommended by your own link, not required. A COVID shot should not be required either. In my opinion. Suggested, recommended, but not required to the point that someone dies if they don’t. This is not a liver and alcoholism issue.
 

boobtoucher

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To my understanding a vaccine like what we get when we are kids stops transmission while this shot does not. It is not a typical “vaccine” and is just a preventative shot like the flu. I’m open to being wrong about that though. Regarding the other vaccines. I know what the COVID shot can and can’t do.

And the flu shot - it is recommended by your own link, not required. A COVID shot should not be required either. In my opinion. Suggested, recommended, but not required to the point that someone dies if they don’t. This is not a liver and alcoholism issue.
There's the thing: no vaccine, on it's own, stops transmission. They "stop transmission" because lots of people have the vaccine, so those that have and are spreading the disease can't infect anyone else. That's herd immunity.

Vaccines are raincoats: You have one on, and it's raining, you're going to stay dry. Mostly. Sometimes you get wet when you have a raincoat on. Once you are wet, if you hug someone in a raincoat, they stay dry. But if that person is NOT wearing a raincoat, they get wet too.

 
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Jenesis

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There's the thing: no vaccine, on it's own, stops transmission. They "stop transmission" because lots of people have the vaccine, so those that have and are spreading the disease can't infect anyone else. That's herd immunity.

Vaccines are raincoats: You have one on, and it's raining, you're going to stay dry. Mostly. Sometimes you get wet when you have a raincoat on. Once you are wet, if you hug someone in a raincoat, they stay dry. But if that person is NOT wearing a raincoat, they get wet too.

Yea. I get all that. I thought out vaccines for children did more. My bad. They don’t. Got it.

Why we are adding the link is beyond me but ok.
 

squeezer

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To my understanding a vaccine like what we get when we are kids stops transmission while this shot does not. It is not a typical “vaccine” and is just a preventative shot like the flu. I’m open to being wrong about that though. Regarding the other vaccines. I know what the COVID shot can and can’t do.

And the flu shot - it is recommended by your own link, not required. A COVID shot should not be required either. In my opinion. Suggested, recommended, but not required to the point that someone dies if they don’t. This is not a liver and alcoholism issue.
The way I would look at it is this individual is stubborn and doesn't listen to the medical community. Why waste an organ on him/her when it can go to an individual who follows the instructions before and after surgery and leads to a successful recovery?
 
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Jenesis

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The way I would look at it is this individual is stubborn and doesn't listen to the medical community. Why waste an organ on him/her when it can go to an individual who follows the instructions before and after surgery and leads to a successful recovery?
Then make the flu shot mandatory as well. As far as I’m concerned - COVID basically the same. It is akin to the flu virus. Different and was deadly for a while there but that was 3 years ago. There is no need for this to be mandatory right now.

And not just the flu shot for transplants - all shots. Except they are guidelines and recommendations for most of them.

I get back when the pandemic started but it is over now. Has been for a while now. This is beyond stupid now.

I’m not disagreeing that transplants should go to those who will do the best to keep themselves the healthiest but make the rules reasonable and mandatory COVID but not mandatory Flu is stupid.
 
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squeezer

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Then make the flu shot mandatory as well. As far as I’m concerned - COVID basically the same. It is akin to the flu virus. Different and was deadly for a while there but that was 3 years ago. There is no need for this to be mandatory right now.

And not just the flu shot for transplants - all shots. Except they are guidelines and recommendations for most of them.

I get back when the pandemic started but it is over now. Has been for a while now. This is beyond stupid now.
I go with doing what is asked to be done by the medical professional when given an organ which is life or death for many waiting recipients. Why waste it on someone who isn't going to follow the protocol because they've done "their own research", whatever that outlined protocol is?
 

Jenesis

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I go with doing what is asked to be done by the medical professional when given an organ which is life or death for many waiting recipients. Why waste it on someone who isn't going to follow the protocol because they've done "their own research", whatever that outlined protocol is?
You assume “they have done their own research” and are going political in your thinking. That is your default with COVID now.

Bottomline. - Why is the COVID shot mandatory but the flu shot is not or the rest of the list of vaccines that are optional and recommended? It makes no sense.
 

squeezer

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Then make the flu shot mandatory as well. As far as I’m concerned - COVID basically the same. It is akin to the flu virus. Different and was deadly for a while there but that was 3 years ago. There is no need for this to be mandatory right now.
I will also add for this fall it is recommended anyone over 65 and anyone with comorbidity take the new booster. This is because vulnerable folks are still susceptible to COVID. Isn't someone who just had a transplant vulnerable and if they do contract COVID, do they not have a better chance to survive thus not wasting a gifted organ?
 

Jenesis

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I will also add for this fall it is recommended anyone over 65 and anyone with comorbidity take the new booster. This is because vulnerable folks are still susceptible to COVID. Isn't someone who just had a transplant vulnerable and if they do contract COVID, do they not have a better chance to survive thus not wasting a given organ?
I highlighted the key word in that sentence for you. This was “mandatory” - big difference.
 

squeezer

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I highlighted the key word in that sentence for you.
Yes, recommended for the public as it is not mandated but once you are asking for an organ this changes everything and you must follow the pre and post-organ transplant protocol. If not, you lose. It's the same with anything in life. If you want to adopt a child, you follow the adoption protocol or you get squat! You want to drive a car, you follow the rules or you use the TTC. You do not have to comply but the individual deals with the consequences of their principles or stupidity.
 
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richaceg

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What's BS about this? You do whatever it takes to get that lifeline...throw your beliefs out of the window...that vaccine would ssved him...
 

canada-man

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The covid vaccine does not prevent transmission in the same way my prayers to Jesus are not keeping tigers out of the arctic.

An infected person will transmit the virus. Cough, cold, flu, HIV, doesn't matter.

What a vaccine does is lower your chance (not to zero) of contracting the disease when exposed.

Fewer (new) infections per (existing) infection MEANS fewer total infections, and eventual end of pandemic. This is wearing a condom so your wife doesn't get aids.

The vaccine also reduces the severity of an infection (again, not to zero). This is taking antiretrovirals to reduce the effects of aids.

Dear lord, this isnt even epidemiology. It's 10th grade logic.

People who get the flu shot still get the flu, but fewer people get the flu because people get the flu shot.
Dude all you are doing is regurgitating propaganda bought and paid for by Bill Gates, Pfizer, moderna, etc. From late 2021 most the hospital patients got the jabs and Toronto public health admitted on their Twitter that they inflated to covid deaths
 

massman

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This is exactly true. And you don’t need a flu shot to get a transplant so why the need for a COVID shot. It is a shot, not a “vaccine”.

Im not asking you directly of course. I’m boostered out the ass for COVID because I believe in the shot but I personally can’t get behind this type off treatment of a person for simply refusing what is now basically a different type of flu shot.
Ummm, it is exactly a vaccine.
 

massman

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Bottomline. - Why is the COVID shot mandatory but the flu shot is not or the rest of the list of vaccines that are optional and recommended? It makes no sense.
Probably because the risk of dying from COVID is a lot higher than the flu (at least 3x higher, in pts hospitalized for flu or covid) and if you have an organ transplant the risk of death from COVID infection is 2-5 times higher than average. A transplanted organ in a (preventably) dead person means another person died on the waiting list.
 
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richaceg

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Dude all you are doing is regurgitating propaganda bought and paid for by Bill Gates, Pfizer, moderna, etc. From late 2021 most the hospital patients got the jabs and Toronto public health admitted on their Twitter that they inflated to covid deaths
Lol...I don't know if it's propaganda or not but I'd worry about COVID vaccine later and take that organ as priority... I'd give squeezer a handjob if that's what it takes to get an organ to save my life...
 
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tastingyou

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I’m all for vaccines but not for this ….

Organs available for transplant are a very scarce item. And as in most of these scenarios the medical community wants [ and should want ] the best possible surgical results which means that the potential recipient must meet certain criteria. Such as not being a smoker, an alcoholic , a drug user etc. Or in this case not being an idiot who will not sacrifice his conspiracy theory beliefs in order to save his life and who would be very unlikely to follow the best available advice in order for the transplant having the best odds for success.

NO SYMPATHY for the potential recipient.
 

Meesh

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Dude all you are doing is regurgitating propaganda bought and paid for by Bill Gates, Pfizer, moderna, etc. From late 2021 most the hospital patients got the jabs and Toronto public health admitted on their Twitter that they inflated to covid deaths
Dude, all you are doing is spouting the right-wingnut propaganda full of half-truths and outright lies. I'll follow the science. You're welcome to follow the politics.
 
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Jenesis

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What's BS about this? You do whatever it takes to get that lifeline...throw your beliefs out of the window...that vaccine would ssved him...
The inconsistencies regarding vaccines and transplants is the BS but if you have no issue with that.
Yes, recommended for the public as it is not mandated but once you are asking for an organ this changes everything and you must follow the pre and post-organ transplant protocol. If not, you lose. It's the same with anything in life. If you want to adopt a child, you follow the adoption protocol or you get squat! You want to drive a car, you follow the rules or you use the TTC. You do not have to comply but the individual deals with the consequences of their principles or stupidity.
So you think that having one type of vaccine as mandatory and another as recommended when both are dealing with basically the same thing as acceptable?

You are so far on this COVID train that you are not even taking two seconds to thinking logically about this.

I have no issue with transplant recipients needing to do things to get an organ, I just think it should be the same across the board so if COVID shots are mandatory then ALL flu like shots should be as well. All vaccines should be. You want an organ, get them all done. Not cherry picking which vaccines based on the current popularity contest of which vaccine is currently On peoples minds.
 
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