City of Toronto is broke

[Anbarandy]

Purely out of curiosity. Why do you think that?

While the province does have some limited say in the affairs of municipalities. Most things are municipal decisions. Should the province of Ontario have picked up the tab, when Lastman called in the army to clear snow? For that matter, should all tax payers in Ontario pick up the tab for snow removal in the municipality of Toronto?

The municipality of Toronto determines the mill rate for land taxes. The municipality of Toronto has the lowest mill rate in the province. Dollar for dollar, residents pay the least amount in land taxes, yet arguable enjoy the most services. Land taxes, forget sales or land transfer fees should have been hiked ages ago…

Why should all tax payers of Ontario, bail out the city of Toronto. An argument can be made, the Feds should given its largely federal police’s, that see so many looking at Toronto/GTA as the place in Canada to find work and a roof over a head.

At the end of the day, politicians care about one thing. People’s votes. Do things that will please a lot ( spend $), don’t do things that will anger them ( tax them).

If Ford won’t raise revenue, the way Don Drummond warned McGuinty too. It’s because of “you”, the voters…will get angry..that’s why he killed the tolls on the 412/418…..the 905 was whining about them…hasn’t/won’t slap them on the 400 series ( provincial responsibility)

If Chow won’t slap Tolls on roads/highways on the streets the city is responsible for. It’s because the voters will howl. And if the cities finances are a mess.which they are.

Just like Ontarios
Just like Canadas

It’s not coincidence.

It’s because ultimately politicians won’t do what’s needed, ( usually means pissing off those voters) and will do want voters instead want. Spend.

Out to lunch as usual.

1) The province does not have "some limited say in the affairs of municipalities". It has the ultimate and overriding "say" according to constitution of Canada. The lower levels of government, cities, regions, towns, villages and hamlets were/are created by the province. They are "the creatures" of the province as Doug is wont to say when it suits his agenda as he overrides their decisions and imposes decisions upon them. The province can do/undo whatever they want, whenever they want, wherever they want, however they want, why-ever, hahaha, they want, to whomever they want.

2) Toronto's property tax mill rate does not factor in separate utility rates, water and waste services, and when those two separate rates are factored into the "property tax rate comparison with other jurisdictions across Ontario, Toronto's overall property tax rate aligns more the middle of the pack.

3) It is the provincial government through the Constitution that is legally responsible and accountable and financially liable for the lesser forms of government that they themselves created and have ultimate and total control over.

4) Chow can't "slap on tolls". Only the province can.

 

[Not getting younger]

Really.
have you forgotten lockdowns Frankie? And this from the guy that just a few days was crying about Ford, developers what they would/wouldn’t build, didn’t know municipalities control that, mud roads, land taxes and more…and had/has no clue.
Irony.

https://www.amo.on.ca/about-us/municipal-101/how-local-government-works#:~:text=The%20Municipal%20Act%20is%20a,Ontario's%20e%2DLaws%20web%20site.

 

[bengraysl]

Toronto is a total mess at the moment.

 

[Not getting younger]

I can’t resist.
or does he know how/who pays utilities rates. You should also do some research on what small towns pay for water…let alone propane or oil/hydro. And while land taxes are lower. You think the services available like public transit, police, fire, and sooooooloo much more…what planet do you live on??

 

[ramblin]

Its almost impossible to get laid off (or fired) from a government position in Canada

Agreed.

 

[ramblin]

Question: Is it true that all City of Toronto employees are related? I heard that there are whole families who are employed by the City.

It's not what you know it's who you know. Governments of all stripes are ground zero for nepotism.

 

[Anbarandy]

Toronto is a total mess at the moment.

Yep.

13 years of fiscally conservative, right-wing ideology created this "total mess".

 

[bengraysl]

Wait until the property tax increase. Time to start charging people from Mississauga, Vaughn, Markham , etc… for using our services.

 

[oral.com]

Whether you like or hate her, at least Chow is addressing the issues. She's calling out everyone and clearly outlining not enough is being done on all levels.

Addressing what issues?
Budget deficit: Raise taxes, Shame the provincial and Federal government to give more. The real ignored issue: frivolous and wasted spending.
Crime: Defund LE, more social workers. Seriously???
Congestion: Tear down the Gardiner

 

[Dutch Oven]

Out to lunch as usual.

1) The province does not have "some limited say in the affairs of municipalities". It has the ultimate and overriding "say" according to constitution of Canada. The lower levels of government, cities, regions, towns, villages and hamlets were/are created by the province. They are "the creatures" of the province as Doug is won't to say when he overrides their decisions and imposes decisions upon them. The province can do/undo whatever they want, when they, where they, how they want to whom they to do upon so.

2) Toronto's property tax mill rate does not factor in separate utility rates, water and waste services and when those two separate rates are factored into the "property tax rate comparison with other jurisdictions across Ontario, Toronto's overall property tax rate aligns more the middle of the pack.

3) It is the provincial government through the Constitution that is legally responsible and accountable and financially liable for the lesser forms of government that they themselves created and have ultimate and total control over.

4) Chow can't "slap on tolls". Only the province can.

I'm with you for much of this analysis, except for the part where you claim the Province is financially liable for Toronto's spending. The City of Toronto is a municipal corporation. As a distinct legal entity, it is solely responsible for its own contracts. While the City has authorities and responsibilities defined for it by the City of Toronto Act, it is otherwise free to contract in its own right like any other corporate entity. Some very limited exemptions from liability are set out in Part XVI of the Act.

I agree that other levels of government ought to assist cities when they expose those entities to costs via their policies. However, there is no legal liability to do so. You can, however, stop voting for Federal governments who refuse to cover the municipal costs of their immigration policies. Just a suggestion, Toronto!

 

[oral.com]

Yep.

13 years of fiscally conservative, right-wing ideology created this "total mess".

S

Yep.

13 years of fiscally conservative, right-wing ideology created this "total mess".

lets leave partisan rhetoric out of this discussion and concentrate on the issues

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Toronto is a total mess at the moment

I blame the pandemic though.

Its not gonna be easy to recover from all this

 

[torontomanz]

Hope it does. The issue is things have just gotten to expensive and wages haven’t gone up as fast as cost of living.

 

[richaceg]

I wonder at what point Chow will drop "maybe we should defund police"...

 

[torontomanz]

I wonder at what point Chow will drop "maybe we should defund police"...

We should defund some of the police. Way to much in overtime pay.

 

[Frankfooter]

Really.
have you forgotten lockdowns Frankie? And this from the guy that just a few days was crying about Ford, developers what they would/wouldn’t build, didn’t know municipalities control that, mud roads, land taxes and more…and had/has no clue.
Irony.

https://www.amo.on.ca/about-us/municipal-101/how-local-government-works#:~:text=The%20Municipal%20Act%20is%20a,Ontario's%20e%2DLaws%20web%20site.

DoFo controlled the lockdowns, he gave us the stupidest and longest ones in North America.
DoFo controls city planning through the OMB, as we see with his moves at the Science Centre and Ontario place.
DoFo also tried to control city council, cutting it in half during an election and attempting to keep right wingers in power, fortunately that failed.
DoFo also gave developers fee breaks that will force the cities, including Toronto, to pay instead.

Meanwhile 1 in 5 housing developments aren't getting built, leaving home buyers in the lurch while developers get off free.

The interesting question will be whether Chow can use the strong mayor powers or whether DoFo tries to end that legislation.

 

[Frankfooter]

I can’t resist.
or does he know how/who pays utilities rates. You should also do some research on what small towns pay for water…let alone propane or oil/hydro. And while land taxes are lower. You think the services available like public transit, police, fire, and sooooooloo much more…what planet do you live on??

Its basic.
Higher density makes utilities cheaper, lower density means longer sewage, water, hydro and gas lines and more roads to maintain.

You want to live in suburbia in the middle of nowhere you should pay for that big yard and the cost it takes to get services to it.
Or go offgrid.

How can you not know that?

 

[torontomanz]

Totally agree with you. We need to protest Torontos interest and not let the subs live off our glory.

 

[Not getting younger]

Hope it does. The issue is things have just gotten to expensive and wages haven’t gone up as fast as cost of living.

So, we know ( and all politicians know) and most can accept wages have not increased in decades. “Stagnant”…So how does increasing any form of direct taxation help?????.say taxes on gas..

Want to slam Ford about something. His plan to sell the LCBO would be a legit one. It’s a cash cow, for the province, also sends money direct to healthcare, and no one is forced to spend a lot of money there. Ditto road tolls, etc etc.

 

[torontomanz]

So, we know ( and all politicians know) and most can accept wages have not increased in decades. So how does increasing direct taxation help.

Want to slam Fire about something. His plan to sell the LCBO would be a legit one. It’s a cash cow, and no one is forced to spend a lot of money there. Ditto road tolls, etc etc.

Funny thing is our salaries have not gone up. But the politicians and business profits have increased. The power gets richer and we are sent to a lower middle class level. Soon only the rich and corporations will be able to buy homes in Toronto.