City of Toronto is broke
- Thread starter farquhar
- Start date
That’s a great place to start. Next the police budget, get it down per capita of other cites here. Followed by tendering & subcontracting whatever services can be...anything the City does costs you more. Cut city hall down to a manageable number, let them retire & STOP hiring unless absolutely necessary, let them multitask like they’re working in a small business. Let’s have some televised town hall meetings with the Doug & Drama School boy on how the immigration & refugee problem is going to be solved...that buck just keeps getting passed around & costing the city a fortune. Start running the city like a business not an effin charity. It’s a great city let’s not see it waste away
A wise old man once told me that you can judge the prosperity of a city by noting at which floor downtown the for rent signs appear. Toronto now has many many empty stores starting at ground level on main streets. Toronto is in trouble.
Why? This city is now below stall speed. It stopped climbing a few years ago. Remember that private sector dollars coming downtown are the fuel that turns the propeller and puts air under the wings.
What has dammed up the private flows of dollars to downtown? What impedes the flows of private dollars even among those who are already in the downtown?
1. Traffic - You have taken broad and efficient 4 lane streets that those before us invested $billions to build and turned them into traffic-choked 2 lane and even one lane streets with bike lanes and flower pots. Did you ever see a bike rider with a big load of merchandise they just bought downtown? Do people go out for expensive dinners on bikes, subways, trolleys, or busses? The bike lanes are 99% unused while drivers who can spend money either decide to stay home or stay in the suburbs. On a recent trip it was easier to buy a computer power cord at Markville Mall than downtown. Just about every parking spot was taken at the mall by prosperous looking spenders.
You should think of Toronto as a frequently clogged north-south east-west criss-cross of streets. Planners don't seem to think about how many of those streets can be blocked before people just say the hell with it - you can't get there from here. King St is ruined for east-west travel by the right turn rules. Bloor St is ruined by the loss of 2 lanes. Eglington is a mess from construction.The DVP and QEW are not dependable if you need to be somewhere at a specific time. For north-south travel I use Avenue Rd and Bayview. You can't really travel east-west efficiently until you are north of the city. Bayview to Warden and Highway 7 can work when the big theoretically faster highways are paralyzed. Avenue Rd to Finch can work. But I am describing the flow of money draining away from the city and its needs.
2. Crime and Safety - I previously spent a lot of money in bars and restaurants each trip. This city downtown is not safe. Attacks and car thefts are far too frequent. This is good for cabbies and Uber drivers but bad for pedestrians. It is never recommended to have a few drinks and drive yourself back to your condo or hotel. If you were an outcall escort you would take care late at night that the pickup driver is close by. You are much more likely to meet a criminal late at night on a sidewalk than a Toronto policeman. Where are the police that used to be a frequent sight on foot and on horseback?
3. Taxes Too High Now - Raising Hotel, Sales Taxes, and Parking Fees Will Make Things Worse - I love this place but you need more hotels and guarded parking - not less. Raising taxes on something to get more of it is counterintuitive.
4. Effects on Both Hobbyists and Average Folks - I don't want to walk to a downtown incall with a big wad of cash in my pocket. I drive to a safe suburb for that. That is why so many incalls are in the suburbs. And that is why I stay in a familiar condo near Yorkville with private in-building parking for easy egress out of the city. I drive here in a cheap rental car - not one of my good cars. The suburbs still do not have the best hotels. Make life more difficult and more expensive for tourists, foreign investors, and drivers and wonder why there are empty store fronts for rent all over downtown. Private cash inflows and investments can fuel a rebirth of this city. More taxes, regulations, red light cameras, bike lanes, cement flower pots, festivals for fringe groups, and orange cones will not reverse this stall and spiral downward. I love this town and the people who live here. Private spending, return of broad efficient streets, good transit and sidewalk policing, and basic rule of law can fix this city - not more taxes, regulations, fines, early release of repeat criminals, red light cameras, and taxpayer subsidies.
Why? This city is now below stall speed. It stopped climbing a few years ago. Remember that private sector dollars coming downtown are the fuel that turns the propeller and puts air under the wings.
What has dammed up the private flows of dollars to downtown? What impedes the flows of private dollars even among those who are already in the downtown?
1. Traffic - You have taken broad and efficient 4 lane streets that those before us invested $billions to build and turned them into traffic-choked 2 lane and even one lane streets with bike lanes and flower pots. Did you ever see a bike rider with a big load of merchandise they just bought downtown? Do people go out for expensive dinners on bikes, subways, trolleys, or busses? The bike lanes are 99% unused while drivers who can spend money either decide to stay home or stay in the suburbs. On a recent trip it was easier to buy a computer power cord at Markville Mall than downtown. Just about every parking spot was taken at the mall by prosperous looking spenders.
You should think of Toronto as a frequently clogged north-south east-west criss-cross of streets. Planners don't seem to think about how many of those streets can be blocked before people just say the hell with it - you can't get there from here. King St is ruined for east-west travel by the right turn rules. Bloor St is ruined by the loss of 2 lanes. Eglington is a mess from construction.The DVP and QEW are not dependable if you need to be somewhere at a specific time. For north-south travel I use Avenue Rd and Bayview. You can't really travel east-west efficiently until you are north of the city. Bayview to Warden and Highway 7 can work when the big theoretically faster highways are paralyzed. Avenue Rd to Finch can work. But I am describing the flow of money draining away from the city and its needs.
2. Crime and Safety - I previously spent a lot of money in bars and restaurants each trip. This city downtown is not safe. Attacks and car thefts are far too frequent. This is good for cabbies and Uber drivers but bad for pedestrians. It is never recommended to have a few drinks and drive yourself back to your condo or hotel. If you were an outcall escort you would take care late at night that the pickup driver is close by. You are much more likely to meet a criminal late at night on a sidewalk than a Toronto policeman. Where are the police that used to be a frequent sight on foot and on horseback?
3. Taxes Too High Now - Raising Hotel, Sales Taxes, and Parking Fees Will Make Things Worse - I love this place but you need more hotels and guarded parking - not less. Raising taxes on something to get more of it is counterintuitive.
4. Effects on Both Hobbyists and Average Folks - I don't want to walk to a downtown incall with a big wad of cash in my pocket. I drive to a safe suburb for that. That is why so many incalls are in the suburbs. And that is why I stay in a familiar condo near Yorkville with private in-building parking for easy egress out of the city. I drive here in a cheap rental car - not one of my good cars. The suburbs still do not have the best hotels. Make life more difficult and more expensive for tourists, foreign investors, and drivers and wonder why there are empty store fronts for rent all over downtown. Private cash inflows and investments can fuel a rebirth of this city. More taxes, regulations, red light cameras, bike lanes, cement flower pots, festivals for fringe groups, and orange cones will not reverse this stall and spiral downward. I love this town and the people who live here. Private spending, return of broad efficient streets, good transit and sidewalk policing, and basic rule of law can fix this city - not more taxes, regulations, fines, early release of repeat criminals, red light cameras, and taxpayer subsidies.
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All the more reason to put tolls up. If they come to the city to work and play. They can pay for it.
Purely out of curiosity. Why do you think that?
While the province does have some limited say in the affairs of municipalities. Most things are municipal decisions. Should the province of Ontario have picked up the tab, when Lastman called in the army to clear snow? For that matter, should all tax payers in Ontario pick up the tab for snow removal in the municipality of Toronto?
The municipality of Toronto determines the mill rate for land taxes. The municipality of Toronto has the lowest mill rate in the province. Dollar for dollar, residents pay the least amount in land taxes, yet arguable enjoy the most services. Land taxes, forget sales or land transfer fees should have been hiked ages ago…
Why should all tax payers of Ontario, bail out the city of Toronto. An argument can be made, the Feds should given its largely federal police’s, that see so many looking at Toronto/GTA as the place in Canada to find work and a roof over a head.
At the end of the day, politicians care about one thing. People’s votes. Do things that will please a lot ( spend $), don’t do things that will anger them ( tax them).
If Ford won’t raise revenue, the way Don Drummond warned McGuinty too. It’s because of “you”, the voters…will get angry..that’s why he killed the tolls on the 412/418…..the 905 was whining about them…hasn’t/won’t slap them on the 400 series ( provincial responsibility)
If Chow won’t slap Tolls on roads/highways on the streets the city is responsible for. It’s because the voters will howl. And if the cities finances are a mess.which they are.
Just like Ontarios
Just like Canadas
It’s not coincidence.
It’s because ultimately politicians won’t do what’s needed, ( usually means pissing off those voters) and will do want voters instead want. Spend.
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My how quickly people forget. Remember when Rob Ford promised to stop the gravy train? Turns out there was very little fat to cut. Meanwhile Ottawa and Queens Park constantly chip away at funding for the city. It isn't like there has been more money sent to the city for them to waste. More people, old and busted infrastructure, aging transit. Yeah, lots of fat to cut away...How about cut some of the fat and reduce some services.
You know that responsible live within your means strategy
why should someone that lives in Thunderbay, subsidize or bail out the 416?
/edit add.
Fat to cut. Arguably true. There’s probably not much once past council etc. god knows the Metro Toronto Police need more, not less..
which leaves.
Revenue needs to be raised. As warned 13 years ago…
and smarten up. Can’t have Champaign taste on beer budgets.
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There are 43,500 City of Toronto employees. How about they start by cutting 10% of the City payroll and letting the individual departments figure out how to provide their services more productively, or reduce what they provide.
Note, I would also eliminate (or severely hamper) the ability to hire contract workers, consultants, etc. I've seen too many people take their retirement in their 50's after their 30 years of service only to be hired back on contract. They get all the benefits of their pension (including a great drug and dental package) and then get hired back on contract getting more money because contract workers don't receive benefits. Crazy!
I know of one person, a civil engineer, who made $300K+ one year working that setup.
On Tory's way out the door (literally after he announced he was leaving) he pushed through hiring 200 more police officers which increased the TPS budget by $43M a year.
What no one talks about is how that $43M grows every year with wage and pension increases under the collective agreement. Over the employment of those officers that $43M is well over $1B. And will Toronto be "safer" with the extra 200 officers? Will more crimes be solved? Not a chance.
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Whether you like or hate her, at least Chow is addressing the issues. She's calling out everyone and clearly outlining not enough is being done on all levels.
How about charging for car licenses? Ford made the licensing free, forgoing all that revenue, but leaving all the cost to license them in place.
I see it as money to be had and a Service Ontario infrastructure already in place to fulfill the collection. There's a lot more money there than licensing a few thousand bicycles, and you don't have to hire more police officers to start pulling over 10 year olds riding their bike around their subdivisions.
Its almost impossible to get laid off (or fired) from a government position in Canada
LMAO. GO transit is a provincially owned corporation called Metrolinx. City of Toronto has nothing to do with it.
I'm always amused by rants about downtown by people who don't live downtown.
Toronto is one of the safest cities in North America, crime is low.
If you get rid of bike lanes it just means more cars on the streets, I bike and drive and biking is by far the better. You can get directly from point a to point b faster and know exactly how it'll take.
Life in a 15 minute city is far better.
Businesses still haven't recovered from covid and the move to remote work, but the shine has come off of remote work of late.
Chow should re establish the license plate fee, adding in a fee for those who drive into the city often. Tax $3 million + house sales, step back from funding any metrolinx (provincial) project, get DoFo to fund his TTC pet projects and cut funding to the police.
Arguable.
any idea how much $$ those people bring in to the city every day? Spending at restaurants, theatres, Taylor swift concerts? Keeping other people employed And their employers that pay land taxes as well as corporate taxes to the province?? How did the 416 make out during Covid when they weren’t? Not too good.
That said, on the whole. The 905 likely too, gets a bit of a free ride per se. the DVP along with all the 400 series. Yeah, if I was a debt riddled as the province is, with the problems we have today ( which includes many areas of PS critically understaffed) and those arriving (Boomers retiring) etc etc.
Tolls should have been slapped on years ago. But that would piss off, a lot of voters.
As for the MTPS. Surprised anyone is griping about a few hundred more cops on the streets.
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The rot started with Mayor Miller. Remember when he said he wanted Toronto to be a "model employer"?
"Model employer" is code for giving the unions everything they want and more and no contracting out and no hiring service providers whose employees make less than a Toronto employee (i.e. pay the highest price possible for goods and services).
"Model employer" is code for giving the unions everything they want and more and no contracting out and no hiring service providers whose employees make less than a Toronto employee (i.e. pay the highest price possible for goods and services).
Miller's Transit City was a great transit plan, fully funded by the province.
The crackhead cancelled it and gave us $2 billion in debt for a single subway station.
