The Gardiner Expressway
- Thread starter GameBoy27
- Start date
LOL, they'll just all be repealed once the pendulum swings back to the right again.
Violent incidents against passengers on the TTC increased by 46 per cent compared to the previous year, according to a monthly report released by TTC CEO Rick Leary. In 2022, there were 1,068 incidents, while 2021 saw 734 such incidents, 2020 saw 735 and there were 666 in 2019.
The trend is not heading in the right direction. Those are just the reported incidents. If you factor in all of the unreported incidents, the number is way higher. The homeless, the drug addicts, violent acts, along with being unreliable are just some of the many people don't like talking the TTC. So they Take The Car!
You brought up statistics. The numbers you're clinging to are still statisically and very small relative to the number of rides the TTC handled in 2022. 1000 incidents divided by 300M rides a year is 0.0003%. Maybe you don't like it, but that's how math and statistics work. They are just numbers and have nothing to do with how people feel.
I agree with you that the numbers are trending upwards and I accounted for that in my reply. We can increase the number of incidents by 10,000% and the incident rate would still be very low. People fear a lot of things like taking the subway, cycling, walking, running, driving, boating, bussing, flying or even BBBJ, but they still do them.
The fact, backed by your numbers, still and always remains that serious incidents on the TTC are extremely low. I grant you that if you're taking the TTC 7 days a week for all trips (work, leasure, etc.) that you're statisically more likely (it's still a very small chance) to get iinto an incident, but that's the same for every mode of travel.
Sure, statistically it's safe. But if you ask most riders, at some point, they've felt uncomfortable or been in an altercation with someone riding the TTC. I know I have, on a number of occasions. Like others, I didn't bother reporting it. All I'm saying is that many people don't feel safe riding the TTC, so they drive instead.
What exactly do you mean by "most" and "many" people? There's a million rides everyday. What do you reckon: did 10, 25, 50 75 or 100% of those million people feel uncomfortable or got into an altercation?
I know, let's survey people. Problem is we can't survey even a small fraction of those million riders. Besides, the answers you get are going to be different from a person that has been riding for decades and has no choice vs another that started this year and has other choices like driving, carpool, dropped off, Go train, etc.
I'm not discounting anyone's feelings BTW, just stating cold, hard numbers. The same numbers you've been loudly trumpeting.
I would say just about everyone I know has a story about the assholes on the TTC. Everything from unpleasant interactions to violence.
We're comparing apples to oranges. I'm talking numbers, you're talking stories and feelings. They can't be compared.
It's already massively gridlocked so throwing in 3 lights won't change anything because no one is moving anyway during rush hour. Don't expect Doug to spend money building anything. Would nix his precious surplus. He's all hat, no cattle.
You're talking about the number of "reported" violent attacks on the TTC. We all know many incidents go unreported every day. Stories, examples, feelings, whatever you want to call it, is exactly the reason many people don't feel comfortable on the TTC. Which is exactly why many people opt to drive. That's my point.
Still more likely to be killed in traffic than on TTC. I hear about a TTC fatality maybe once every few months. I hear about people dying in car accidents here almost every day. A 46% increase from a small number yields a negligible increase.
Then they're exposing themselves to greater risk due to the much higher incidence of death and injury from cars. I don't need to hearstories from "everybody". They report it on the news everyday, but I don't hear TTC stories nearly as often. And they don't report anything like all the car incidents every day. The reason you hear so many TTC stories now is because it is unusual and therefore news. Same reason you don't hear about all the daily mass shootings in the US. They just cover the sensational ones involving kids
That section of the Gardiner, from the DVP to Jarvis moves very well, because there's no traffic lights. Having all that traffic filter down to the Lakeshore, past a few signals then back onto the DVP or Gardiner is an idiotic idea. I repeat, the majority of Council voted in May to shoot down Matlow's idea to remove the Gardiner east of Jarvis. Why? Because it's a stupid idea!
You asked me to look at the numbers. So I looked at the numbers and did some very simple math. I even accounted for your repeated comments that the numbers are way underreported. Even when I do that, it still doesn't change what the numbers say. The chance or probability of a violent incident on the TTC is negligible.
It's fine if you want to talk about people feeling uncomfortable on the TTC. Just don't point to the statistics to defend your argument because they just don't. Especially when you doubt the accuracy of said statistics.
I think he's getting stuck on the 45% increase, which is a big year-over-year increase. It's a common problem because percentages confuse a lot of people even me sometimes. At the same time, it's still a negligible amount vs the total amount of rides in a year. Even 1 million incidents in 1 year out of 365 M rides is still a very small number.
So now you're comparing deaths on the TTC vs. that of driving? I'm simply telling you the facts. Many people "feel safer driving than they do being on the TTC. They don't like being confronted by drug addicts, homeless and people with mental issues.
You should look up the "statistics" before you comment. As for people in Toronto dying in car crashes, it's not once a day. There were 60 traffic fatalities in 2021, including 27 pedestrians. In all of Ontario it's closer to one a day. But that's all of Ontario.
During rush hour it barely moves. I see it from the GO train all the time. It's a great idea if it saves a bankrupt city half a billion dollars which can be spent better elsewhere. There's no room for more roads anywhere. People are going to have to start adjusting to other options, as they do in other major cities around the world. Most peopke in Manhattan don't drive around to things. That's our future
Stuck and fixated on percentages while stuck in traffic and throwing his life saving Up-The-Wahzoo traffic app out the window.
For God's sake, I'm not doubting the statistics. Statistically speaking, yes it's safe. All I'm saying is many don't feel safe because of past experiences on the TTC. So they would rather drive. Why is that so hard for you to understand?
So now you're comparing confronting drug addicts and homeless people on transit to driving. Ok, on top of the far greater chance of dying in cars let's add in non fatal injuries as well as regular road rage incidents and traffic accidents that don't kill or injure, plus all the homeless/ drug addicts coming up to your car looking for money . What do you think is the safer way considering all that? I'll stick with the TTC thanks. More people to back me up than being alone in my car
