Guns in America: 12 year old girl murders father with gun, then kills herself

[basketcase]

...

Most uniformed Canadians...

Are you talking uniformed as in cops or do you mean uninformed?

 

[K Douglas]

the US is sick. And I mean that with all definitions of the term. The fact is the gun death per capita ( which did anyone notice Tiberius conveniently ignored) I think now is 14. Not many years ago it was 11.

Ours is under 2. When adjusted for gang bangers 0.7 or their abouts. Has to be the air.

Anyone that’s ever worked with Stats, would call the USs gun stats. Dirty bath water. And that’s putting it politely.

There are far more illegal firearms in the United States.
They share an unsecured border with a very violent nation.
They have a pervasive drug and gang culture.
Blacks and Hispanics (who are disproportionately represented in crime statistics) are a much larger proportion of the US population than Canada's.

 

[Not getting younger]

There are far more illegal firearms in the United States.
They share an unsecured border with a very violent nation.
They have a pervasive drug and gang culture.
Blacks and Hispanics (who are disproportionately represented in crime statistics) are a much larger proportion of the US population than Canada's.

sweet

Does that change the Fact their GD/capita is 14 and dirty bath water when compared against the rest of the “civilized” world??
Take Canada we too share a border with a violent country that’s armed to the teeth,.ours is way bigger, and far less defended…Ours is 2….

Does that change the fact there are mass shootings almost every day????

Does that change the fact people walk into schools/theatres on a regular basis? Oh and by the way, those shooters predominantly white males….and what. You think Canadas jails aren’t full of blacks/indigenous etc???

does that change the fact they won’t do shit, to try and lower it?

I swear, sometimes…

 

[Not getting younger]

Yes, most gun violence, both here and the states is gang related. Not sure why you're blaming everyone else for that. And what government do you think would stop criminal violence?

Of course this thread and many others from the US are about non-gang involved shootings where someone shoots the neighbour kids for playing in their yard, someone knocking on their door, or mass shooters going out to try and kill as many people as possible.

what part of wasting 30 years on registries, trying to ban firearms etc. Bring in more GC that’s neither needed, or will curb the problem….Go after legal gun owners, sport shooters, hunters, what part of relaxing bail conditions, reducing sentences, not going after gang bangers isn’t adding up?

You do understand you have a vote. Something all politicians want badly…you do understand that for 30 years, people such as yourself have screamed for bans, listened to lies, misrepresentations. Etc etc? Do you not?

So yes.
You have chosen to be fooled, chosen not to learn, chosen who to listen to, chosen to fight for things that won’t help…and meanwhile.

There’s a lot blood.
After this long, it’s on your hands

And after your last debacle, I’m kind of surprised you even joined in on this. Same old , same old…..for 30 years…

 

[Not getting younger]

Many of us discussing this are reasonably informed. Part of the lesser violence here is the view of long guns as a tool and significant restrictions on hand guns. Add in universal background checks, capacity limits....

reasonably informed.
But you want to add back ground checks..
And capacity limits….significant restrictions on handguns…..omg lol. I’m guessing you don’t know what an ATT is.

Care to explain how you don’t know we already have those…

Dont know for example
After a job loss yeas ago I spent 45 minutes on the phone with the RCMP being interviewed to make sure I wasnt depressed…don’t know our names are run daily to see if we have been charged with anything…..Don’t know all it takes is a phone call from an Ex…Apparently don’t know it takes 6 months or more. From getting your RPAL/PAL to actually being able to posses. What do you think is happening during those 6 months?

ok.
you proved how Ill informed you are last time. With respect to Semis, Bolt actions etc

And with respect to your comment about cops. Two things.

most police forces disagree with you. Agree with us. And sadly while they carry guns, a lot of cops don’t don’t know how to handle them. (Do some research on accidental discharge in stations, lost carbines, etc) But more importantly don’t know firearm regulations and often charge law abiding owners wrongly.. that said, thankfully they are in the minority..

I can’t be bothered finding stuff for you, you actually could and should.Rather than I know guns because I drink at camp and can Google “best rifles”…This is the sun so obviously some hyperbole/rhethoric, I can’t be bothered it just there . And is just scratching the surface.

LILLEY: Hundreds of guns go missing from the Mounties, military and other departments

One of the arguments gun control advocates will make for calling for an outright ban on handguns or certain rifles is that if regular citizens don’t have these fire…

torontosun.com

Same old, same old. Millions of Canadians like you. Who don’t understand firearms, ballistics, kinetic energy, don’t know existing laws, safeguards, and more. Buy into the BS from the left and likeminded people…the gall, you must have to try and tell hunters…..I imagine you also try to tell mechanics how you car works, what’s wrong and how to fix it….

Or stuff like this one…In the end it’s not unlike the US. Ying and Yang. There, the far right the NRA and the gun owners that buy into their BS that get in the way of much needed change. People you belittle you blame, because for 30 years the blood has been and is spilling and it’s getting worse and nothings been done.

. Here, it’s the left and uniformed…

and would you rather gun owners and kids of gun owners think of firearms as toys?

 

[dirtyharry555]

There are far more illegal firearms in the United States.
They share an unsecured border with a very violent nation.
They have a pervasive drug and gang culture.
Blacks and Hispanics (who are disproportionately represented in crime statistics) are a much larger proportion of the US population than Canada's.

This is all common knowledge but remember you're sharing this information with people that think it's reasonable to compare the USA to communist China (yeah the dictatorship) or the island of Japan (no border issue, unified demographics) . These folks are uniquely Canadian in that they have no concept of how the world works outside their insulated first world bubble.

They'll argue non-stop about topics they have no knowledge of. Half these posers don't know the difference between a rife and shotgun, or a semi-automatic handgun versus revolver.

 

[mandrill]

Purchasing handguns is now illegal in Canada. Let's make a friendly bet on whether this reduces gun homicides in Canada, shall we?

We won't know that because it's a hypothetical. No one could guess what gun homicides would be if a certain law didn't exist.

The point you're itching to make is that handgun homicides in Canada are criminals using illegal handguns and why would we give a fuck. But those criminals would steal or illegally purchase legally purchased guns, if that was an option and therefore handgun homicides would rise. So you lose on that one too.

 

[mandrill]

reasonably informed.
But you want to add back ground checks..
And capacity limits….significant restrictions on handguns…..omg lol. I’m guessing you don’t know what an ATT is.

Care to explain how you don’t know we already have those…

Dont know for example
After a job loss yeas ago I spent 45 minutes on the phone with the RCMP being interviewed to make sure I wasnt depressed…don’t know our names are run daily to see if we have been charged with anything…..Don’t know all it takes is a phone call from an Ex…Apparently don’t know it takes 6 months or more. From getting your RPAL/PAL to actually being able to posses. What do you think is happening during those 6 months?

ok.
you proved how Ill informed you are last time. With respect to Semis, Bolt actions etc

And with respect to your comment about cops. Two things.

most police forces disagree with you. Agree with us. And sadly while they carry guns, a lot of cops don’t don’t know how to handle them. (Do some research on accidental discharge in stations, lost carbines, etc) But more importantly don’t know firearm regulations and often charge law abiding owners wrongly.. that said, thankfully they are in the minority..

I can’t be bothered finding stuff for you, you actually could and should.Rather than I know guns because I drink at camp and can Google “best rifles”…This is the sun so obviously some hyperbole/rhethoric, I can’t be bothered it just there . And is just scratching the surface.

LILLEY: Hundreds of guns go missing from the Mounties, military and other departments

One of the arguments gun control advocates will make for calling for an outright ban on handguns or certain rifles is that if regular citizens don’t have these fire…

torontosun.com

Same old, same old. Millions of Canadians like you. Who don’t understand firearms, ballistics, kinetic energy, don’t know existing laws, safeguards, and more. Buy into the BS from the left and likeminded people…the gall, you must have to try and tell hunters…..I imagine you also try to tell mechanics how you car works, what’s wrong and how to fix it….

Or stuff like this one…In the end it’s not unlike the US. Ying and Yang. There, the far right the NRA and the gun owners that buy into their BS that get in the way of much needed change. People you belittle you blame, because for 30 years the blood has been and is spilling and it’s getting worse and nothings been done.

. Here, it’s the left and uniformed…

and would you rather gun owners and kids of gun owners think of firearms as toys?

Oh, okay.

I guess I can't complain about mass shooting events in the US because I don't understand ballistics.

Thanks for putting me in my place.

 

[dirtyharry555]

"There are over 20 million legally owned guns in Canada. So 1 gun for ever 2 citizens. The horror! "

This is flawed logic. There may be 1 gun for every 2 citizens, but that statisitic is meaningless. How many are owned by police, or hunters, or other people with multiple guns? If there are 100 people, and one man owns 200 guns, yes, there are 2 guns for every person, but that doesn't mean that everyone owns two guns. So the number of guns is meaningless.

So your very first and very last arguments I have shown are false, illogical and flawed. You are distorting statistics, using propaganda, and flawed logic to justify your points.

There's nothing flawed in the logic. It's a simple averaging for illustrative purposes and is done for American statistics ALL THE TIME. They have over 415 million guns... more than 1 gun per citizen.

Your other non-points apply to America just the same, however in both cases the stats don't account for police services, only private ownership.

Everything else you posted is nonsense.

 

[dirtyharry555]

We won't know that because it's a hypothetical. No one could guess what gun homicides would be if a certain law didn't exist.

It's not difficult. If crimes involving handguns increases, the policy is a failure.

It's also not difficult to predict what the result will be... since banning law-abiding citizens from owning handguns has zero impact on criminals that import illegal handguns to carry out there criminal activities.

The point you're itching to make is that handgun homicides in Canada are criminals.

I'm not itching to make that point. That is the point.

 

[mandrill]

We've established that your fear of gun-totting white supremacists is overblown. Unfortunately, the image of the right-wing menace is seared into your mind thanks to the media.

Well, the thought of Proud Boys in Seattle and Portland with firearms isn't a comforting one. But I don't otherwise associate gun crime with right wing ideology.

We've established that most gun deaths are suicides and gangbanger beefs. Both groups are entitled to their actions... the weak and the dregs remove themselves. Although the pivot toward concern for suicidal people when the mass shooting angle fell flat was expected.

I've known a couple of female friends recently who attempted suicide. I'm glad they failed and recovered. If they used guns they would now be dead.

I've also had clients who brandished handguns in crimes. I wouldn't call them "dregs". I would call them idiots and impulsive and immature. I'm glad they're still alive as well.

I guess in Alpha male world, anyone who isn't an Alpha gets kicked into the garbage heap and the Alphas move on.

We've established that guns were in more places than they are today in the recent past... in schools for the purpose of instruction and competition... brandished in photos with children just like now... easier to buy/access... yet there were fewer mass shootings, gangbanger shootings, and suicides.

This tells us that culture, demographics, education, have changed.

Seems to me that guns are more prevalent and move available as TX and FL and other red states move to remove any background checks or age restrictions to purchase. You can be a schzophrenic 18 year old and still buy a gun in TX.

And yes, culture has changed. Guns are now associated with defiance and anger and that's why the mass random shooter epidemic is with us.

The guns are staying. Should background checks be required to buy guns? Yes. Are they for the most part? Yes.

I take consolation in the fact that with all the highly emotional whining from the anti-gun group on TERB, they won't move the needle on the topic one bit.

Effective gun purchase control and background checks appear to be absent in most red states.

 

[mandrill]

It's not difficult. If crimes involving handguns increases, the policy is a failure.

It's also not difficult to predict what the result will be... since banning law-abiding citizens from owning handguns has zero impact on criminals that import illegal handguns to carry out there criminal activities.
I'm not itching to make that point. That is the point.

You missed what I was saying in my post. If there was legal purchase of handguns in Canada, some of those weapons would inevitable be stolen and / or sold to people who would use them to commit crimes. So gun crime would increase.

Got to read carefully, Harry.

 

[dirtyharry555]

Well, the thought of Proud Boys in Seattle and Portland with firearms isn't a comforting one. But I don't otherwise associate gun crime with right wing ideology.

LOL, how many murders undertaken by the Proud Boys? Without major news media you wouldn't even know they existed. If your sense of reality wasn't so distorted you'd feel less comfortable about the gangbangers responsible for thousands of murders annually.

I've known a couple of female friends recently who attempted suicide. I'm glad they failed and recovered. If they used guns they would now be dead.

It doesn't matter who you know or don't know. The statistics don't agree with you. People that want to commit suicide find a way.

I've also had clients who brandished handguns in crimes. I wouldn't call them "dregs". I would call them idiots and impulsive and immature. I'm glad they're still alive as well.

Tomato, To-mah-toe

I guess in Alpha male world, anyone who isn't an Alpha gets kicked into the garbage heap and the Alphas move on.

What does this even mean?

Seems to me that guns are more prevalent and move available as TX and FL and other red states move to remove any background checks or age restrictions to purchase. You can be a schzophrenic 18 year old and still buy a gun in TX.

Stay away from Texas. They vote in their politicians. When they decide they want change, they'll vote in leaders accordingly.

You do support the democratic process, right?

And yes, culture has changed. Guns are now associated with defiance and anger and that's why the mass random shooter epidemic is with us.

Good. Now we're getting somewhere.

Effective gun purchase control and background checks appear to be absent in most red states.

See above.

 

[dirtyharry555]

You missed what I was saying in my post. If there was legal purchase of handguns in Canada, some of those weapons would inevitable be stolen and / or sold to people who would use them to commit crimes. So gun crime would increase.

Got to read carefully, Harry.

Here we go with the hypotheticals.

Let's stick to the facts. The overwhelming majority of illegal handguns used in crime come across the border.

 

[mandrill]

LOL, how many murders undertaken by the Proud Boys? Without major news media you wouldn't even know they existed. If your sense of reality wasn't so distorted you'd feel less comfortable about the gangbangers responsible for thousands of murders annually.

Here we go with the rightie myths again. If it wasn't for mass media, none of us would know anything about anything.

And I'm not comfortable with gang gun crime. I just think that they're human beings - some of them anyway.

It doesn't matter who you know or don't know. The statistics don't agree with you. People that want to commit suicide find a way.

No.

Stay away from Texas. They vote in their politicians. When they decide they want change, they'll vote in leaders accordingly.

You do support the democratic process, right?

Yuh. I love the way Canadians have voted Justin in 3 elections straight and will keep doing so.

 

[mandrill]

Here we go with the hypotheticals.

Let's stick to the facts. The overwhelming majority of illegal handguns used in crime come across the border.

You ducked my point again. I expected better of you.

But then, you're the guy who won't debate the AMA's take or the recent judicial decisions on trans affirmative care with me. Each time I mention those dread topics, you flee the thread.

 

[dirtyharry555]

Here we go with the rightie myths again. If it wasn't for mass media, none of us would know anything about anything.

And I'm not comfortable with gang gun crime. I just think that they're human beings - some of them anyway.

I wouldn't know about the Proud Boys if it wasn't for mass media. In fact, until you named them, I didn't realize they still existed.

No.

Yes: https://terb.cc/xenforo/threads/gun...then-kills-herself.821715/page-8#post-7997900

Yuh. I love the way Canadians have voted Justin in 3 elections straight and will keep doing so.

Bringing in millions of immigrants only helps his cause, in the short term anyway.

 

[dirtyharry555]

You ducked my point again. I expected better of you.

But then, you're the guy who won't debate the AMA's take or the recent judicial decisions on trans affirmative care with me. Each time I mention those dread topics, you flee the thread.

The politicization of the AMA has been addressed by myself and others multitudes of times.

 

[Not getting younger]

I know some won’t like this.
The number of irresponsible gun owners ( stolen, or sold into the black market, are careless handling them)……is dwarfed by the number of irresponsible drinkers that own cars. The carnage they wreak…dwarfs, utterly drawfs…. Can’t understand why some don’t scream to ban booze….

Anyone want to guess why when looking at various gun crime stats ( I wonder how many people even know what a crime gun is or isn’t) the liberals have cherry picked a certain year as their baseline?????

more to the point.
When have bans for anything worked?
Alcohol? Illicit drugs ( anyone know how many have been killed in Canada by fentanyl in the past 6 months…), cherry bombs and firecrackers, etc and so on….

gun ownership.
I forget the actual stat, but globally Canada ranks way up there….and yet our GD/Capita….is under 2. Under 1 if adjusted for gang bangers.

Every day. 4 killed and 175 injured. Legally that meet the definition of mass murder ( 3 killed).
https://maddchapters.ca/parkland/about-us/impaired-driving-statistics/#:~:text=Canada's%20Stats%20on%20Drinking%20and%20Driving&text=Annually%3A%20We%20estimate%20between%201%2C250,Canada%20in%20impairment%2Drelated%20crashes.

but hey, fear those guns and legal gun owners, who statistically are proven to be, amongst Canadas most responsible, least likely to commit crime’s citizens and demographics.

and the truth is, and even the Liberals now admit it. Having been caught lying, pulling the wool over people’s eyes.

the vast majority of crime guns come from the Wild West.

 

[anon1]