The Ukrainian offensive starts

[WyattEarp]

They are in a race to get as much done before 2024 in the crazy event the MagaTwats were to take power again and cause turmoil within Nato and funding.

This wouldn't be the first time you failed to appreciate or understand how Democracy works. No U.S. politician regardless of party is going to do anything that is unpopular with the American public. Since the U.S. is the country mostly bankrolling the Ukrainian cause, it makes sense we would have a voice.

In response to the topic at hand, I think if the conflict is still raging in January 2025 it would be very bad for the Ukrainians regardless of the 2024 election result. The Ukrainians can't afford a fourth year of war in terms of manpower. Forget materials and equipment. Historically, Russia has won many wars from attrition of the enemy and sustaining losses most countries would not.

 

[Pleasure Hound]

Russia has won many wars from attrition of the enemy and sustaining losses most countries would not.

Well, Russia lost its wars in Finland, Afghanistan and the Cold War, so attrition doesn't always work.....

I do agree that Russians have incredible resiliency when suffering unbelievable hardship during war. They did defeat the Nazis using such resiliency......

 

[WyattEarp]

Well, Russia lost its wars in Finland, Afghanistan and the Cold War, so attrition doesn't always work.....

I do agree that Russians have incredible resiliency when suffering unbelievable hardship during war. They did defeat the Nazis using such resiliency......

I'm not sure the Cold War is a good example per se. It seemed more like an internal economic collapse or a self-recognition they could not continue with the political and economic path of Soviet Communism.

As far as Russian capitulation, I ask on other sites of the more optimistic Ukrainian supporters what does that look like. Does that mean rolling back Russians to pre-2014 borders including extraction from Crimea? Do the Russians honor a cease fire?

 

[squeezer]

This wouldn't be the first time you failed to appreciate or understand how Democracy works. No U.S. politician regardless of party is going to do anything that is unpopular with the American public. Since the U.S. is the country mostly bankrolling the Ukrainian cause, it makes sense we would have a voice.

In response to the topic at hand, I think if the conflict is still raging in January 2025 it would be very bad for the Ukrainians regardless of the 2024 election result. The Ukrainians can't afford a fourth year of war in terms of manpower. Forget materials and equipment. Historically, Russia has won many wars from attrition of the enemy and sustaining losses most countries would not.

I see, so Trump claiming he would end the war in 24 hours, so tell me how would he accomplish that? Yes, we know he's full of shit and exaggerates but how do you think he is going to appease his mentor Putin? You already have MTG and the rest of the maga twats screaming to cut funding. This isn't the first time you've failed to see the forest for the trees, so I understand.

 

[Dutch Oven]

I'm just not sure what "political will" means in an autocracy like Russia. Putin seems impervious to public opinion. It seems he couldn't care less that educated Russians are leaving the country.

Since the Ukrainian successes last year, I've seen people speculating that Putin will be deposed. I don't think it's a bold opinion to say the Ukraine and the West can't base strategy on this hope.

Political will in Russia means either 1) Putin is deposed, or 2) there is a bigger problem that Putin has to throw resources at.

Waiting for better circumstances isn't delay when you're not really ready anyway.

 

[WyattEarp]

I see, so Trump claiming he would end the war in 24 hours, so tell me how would he accomplish that? Yes, we know he's full of shit and exaggerates but how do you think he is going to appease his mentor Putin? You already have MTG and the rest of the maga twats screaming to cut funding. This isn't the first time you've failed to see the forest for the trees, so I understand.

Do you understand how Democracy works? It is an expression of the public will through voting. A Republic is an expression of public will through the election of our representatives.

To continue on with American civics lesson, the U.S. Congress has an equal say in the Ukrainian appropriations. A 2/3 majority in the Senate and the House essentially can appropriate any sum they decide without Presidential authority.

Nothing I am saying here is even a matter of opinion.

 

[WyattEarp]

Political will in Russia means either 1) Putin is deposed, or 2) there is a bigger problem that Putin has to throw resources at.

Waiting for better circumstances isn't delay when you're not really ready anyway.

Apparently, squeezer has it all figured out. Just sayin'.

Perhaps, the Ukrainians don't want to miss a season of ideal conditions for an offensive and let the Russians dig in further. Since the U.S. military is consulting with the Ukrainians, I'm sure they have weighed out all the advantages and disadvantages of delaying action.

 

[Insidious Von]

You do realize that Puttanesca is a pasta sauce originated by Italian prostitutes, don't you? Do you really have to insult them here of all places by linking them to Vladimir Putin?

Thanks for slapping me upside the head. I hate it that tourist sites on YT never mention Puttanesca as the No. 1 dish of Rome. I've never been with a Roman sp, some of them are very stylish and supper hot. WyattEarp I stand embarrassed for my thoughtlessness.

So Roman you need a chef with a thick Roman accent to make it. lol

 

[squeezer]

Do you understand how Democracy works? It is an expression of the public will through voting. A Republic is an expression of public will through the election of our representatives.

To continue on with American civics lesson, the U.S. Congress has an equal say in the Ukrainian appropriations. A 2/3 majority in the Senate and the House essentially can appropriate any sum they decide.

Nothing I am saying here is even a matter of opinion.

I see, so the house full of GOP magatwats with more seats and the Prez in their corner decide to cut back on Ukraine, considering the Senate is barely controlled by the Dems, you still believe Zelensky has nothing to worry about do you?

Let me ask you, did the Magatwats led by their Butterball leader understand how democracy works on Jan. 6th?

I do realize you still have some old-school Republicans roaming around if Trump doesn't make them completely hide their balls in a second term. Albeit, I'm 99% sure he will not win in a general election because unlike the dummies voting in the primary, the general public has a little bit more brains.

PS...how do you feel about the indictments so far? Hurts a little?? LOL

 

[WyattEarp]

I see, so the house full of GOP magatwats with more seats and the Prez in their corner decide to cut back on Ukraine, considering the Senate is barely controlled by the Dems, you still believe Zelensky has nothing to worry about do you?

Let me ask you, did the Magatwats led by their Butterball leader understand how democracy works on Jan. 6th?

I do realize you still have some old-school Republicans roaming around if Trump doesn't make them completely hide their balls in a second term. Albeit, I'm 99% sure he will not win in a general election because unlike the dummies voting in the primary, the general public has a little bit more brains.

PS...how do you feel about the indictments so far? Hurts a little?? LOL

The real matter at hand is if the Ukrainians are still slogging it out with Russia in 2025, the American public will not be in support of sending tens of billions of more aid and armaments. They will want the U.S. to push for a negotiated settlement even if it fails to meet the Ukrainians' ultimate objectives in the war. '

It will have nothing to do with your predisposition with Trump and Republicans. I do suspect many Democratic progressives in Congress will also tire of sending aid and armaments by 2025.

By the way, most of the U.S. Senate and House have been very supportive of the Ukrainians. Most of them will be returning to office in 2025. So they will make the decision.

No offense, but you and let's say the beav (you all sound similar) can cook up any narrative you want in your head. You will also likely be able to find someone in American media saying similar things. However, it ignores how things actually work in Washington D.C.

 

[SchlongConery]

I agree, but what's the hurry to rush headlong into an offensive? Isn't Ukrainian buildup happening faster than Russian resupply? Why not wait until: a) Russia loses the political will to stay, or b) at least until Ukraine has a 2 or 3 to 1 firepower advantage at each objective it looks to retake? In all conflicts where an outgunned force won a war (Vietnam, for example), time and timing were the most valuable assets of that outgunned force.

Well General Oven, Sir... perhaps the Ukrainian military command, with the benefit of advice and information provided by the dozens of countries supplying deep, deep intelligence (that you and I are obviously not privy to) and war gaming... have good reasons to act according to their timetable.

Well, I'm sure that the fortifications that the Russians faced in taking portions of Ukraine have not been fully restored to their former effectiveness (as is always the case). But the objective here is not to simply be more effective than the Russians, because Russia can afford to be about 5 times less effective. The objective is to retake the country with the minimum loss of life. Does taking it back 1 year earlier justify double the anticipated losses? I wouldn't think so.

Well in my expert opinion.... I don't know.

There is no doubt that the Ukrainians are in for a helluva fight and are going to lose many good soldiers. But Russia can bomb a lot of civilian apartment buildings and terrorize and kill a lot of innocent sleeping men, women and children in 365 nights.

 

[SchlongConery]

It is my understanding from 2 different commentators that the offensive has barely started that most [as in 10 out of 11 or so] of the new brigades haven't seen action yet.

I notice HistoryLegendz is busting a nut because Ukraine lost a few more tanks and Brads. I m not sure why he is posting in English instead of German, after all considering Dieppe and Kasserine Pass surely we have lost WWII and are under German occupation, or is that Japanese occupation because surely after losing all those ships at Pearl Harbour we have been run over by the Japanese.

All that being said, it seems the Ukrainians haven't learned much from Russian mistakes over and over at Vulador[sp? don't care]
But hey they seem to be making some progress and that using very little of what they have saved up.

I am still half thinking that they will end up attacking somewhere else hardcore for real. Just like last time, attack in the Kherson region, not make much progress then hit the north, then after taking the rest of the Kherson region west of the river.
I would not be shocked if they actually launched the rest of the new brigades either up north [although that would extend the border between Ukraine and Russia proper] or try to fuck shit up at Bahkmut. Then move back south. That would be grand.
Quite frankly that would explain them half assing their push south instead of going full potato.
Now gambling at Cafe American in Casablanca, that would shock me.

Some YouTuber said sure, Russians took out a dozen Bradley's, Challengers, Humvees and MRAPs in that famous ambush strike. But that the Ukrainians had that much Russian iron for breakfast. That the Uke's are taking out >3x Russian equipment on a daily basis.

No idea what their plans are but I don't think they are doing things as predictably as the Full Potato Vodka strategies of the hapless Orcs. It's been said that Shoigu is the greatest asset to Ukraine in the war! Apparently they often know exactly where he is when he is in the war zone and could take him out with HIMARS at any time. But they like his incompetence! And that he is making Preghozian go apeshit and cause internal strife.

I've said it many times, Russia is emasculating itself.

 

[SchlongConery]

Excellent Potty Humor!
I love it............................
that we can mock how stupid it is.

Gullible in that he both
believes his shit and
thinks others buy
his unique snowflake
self-importance schtick.

Go have some KFC tonight and
do your own @oil&gas research in
the morning!

 

[WyattEarp]

Gullible in that he both
believes his shit and
thinks others buy
his unique snowflake
self-importance schtick.

Go have some KFC tonight and
do your own @oil&gas research in
the morning!

So he seems to be an erratic poster. So we need your unique perspective on feces?

 

[squeezer]

The real matter at hand is if the Ukrainians are still slogging it out with Russia in 2025, the American public will not be in support of sending tens of billions of more aid and armaments. They will want the U.S. to push for a negotiated settlement even if it fails to meet the Ukrainians' ultimate objectives in the war. '

It will have nothing to do with your predisposition with Trump and Republicans. I do suspect many Democratic progressives in Congress will also tire of sending aid and armaments by 2025.

By the way, most of the U.S. Senate and House have been very supportive of the Ukrainians. Most of them will be returning to office in 2025. So they will make the decision.

No offense, but you and let's say the beav (you all sound similar) can cook up any narrative you want in your head. You will also likely be able to find someone in American media saying similar things. However, it ignores how things actually work in Washington D.C.

Yes, they prefer to end it sooner than later and yes as I said, Lindsey the Rat Graham even supports Ukraine tooth and nail but again, Trump is a wild card and you can bet he will do whatever needs to be done to aid his pal Putin. Yeah, I know you don't like to hear the truth.

Hey Wyatt, do you remember this little tidbit or wait, was it fake news??

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/trump-ordered-hold-on-military-aid-days-before-calling-ukrainian-president-officials-say/2019/09/23/df93a6ca-de38-11e9-8dc8-498eabc129a0_story.html

 

[Dutch Oven]

Well General Oven, Sir... perhaps the Ukrainian military command, with the benefit of advice and information provided by the dozens of countries supplying deep, deep intelligence (that you and I are obviously not privy to) and war gaming... have good reasons to act according to their timetable.

Or they are making a mistake, or even worse, they know they are making a mistake but they are prepared to spend lives for political reasons.

p.s. Have you ever played any serious wargames? Of course, it's not the same as actual military command experience, but they are designed by people who either have that experience or have researched deeply into the topic. The military uses them for command training. EVERY one of these simulations punishes combatants who attack fortified positions without overwhelming firepower. And, in addition, do you know what is always the enemy of the force which starts out better armed? Time (in gaming terms - they have limited game turns to accomplish their objectives). There are real world reasons for these common design elements.

Well in my expert opinion.... I don't know.

There is no doubt that the Ukrainians are in for a helluva fight and are going to lose many good soldiers. But Russia can bomb a lot of civilian apartment buildings and terrorize and kill a lot of innocent sleeping men, women and children in 365 nights.

There is no doubt that the Russians are unscrupulous in war - to their enemies and to their own troops. Every instinct would direct a person to hit back as soon as possible for such behaviour. But that is not how wars are won by weaker forces.

 

[SchlongConery]

So he seems to be an erratic poster. So we need your unique perspective on feces?

So I take it you won't be buying tickets to my evening stand up routine at Yuk Yuks?

...nor my morning sit down shit schtick potcast?

 

[toguy5252]

Do you understand how Democracy works? It is an expression of the public will through voting. A Republic is an expression of public will through the election of our representatives.

To continue on with American civics lesson, the U.S. Congress has an equal say in the Ukrainian appropriations. A 2/3 majority in the Senate and the House essentially can appropriate any sum they decide without Presidential authority.

Nothing I am saying here is even a matter of opinion.

You are confusing the way the American constitution intended democracy to work and how it does in fact. If the now former only twice impeached and twice indicted sexual abuser is elected aid to Ukraine will very quickly end and he will claim he ended the war which will have been the case. the checks and balance you refer to only work if the branches of government are independent of one another. As long as his employees control one or both of the houses there are no checks and balances.

 

[WyattEarp]

Yes, they prefer to end it sooner than later and yes as I said, Lindsey the Rat Graham even supports Ukraine tooth and nail but again, Trump is a wild card and you can bet he will do whatever needs to be done to aid his pal Putin. Yeah, I know you don't like to hear the truth.

Hey Wyatt, do you remember this little tidbit or wait, was it fake news??

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/trump-ordered-hold-on-military-aid-days-before-calling-ukrainian-president-officials-say/2019/09/23/df93a6ca-de38-11e9-8dc8-498eabc129a0_story.html

You're still ignoring our President does not have the final say on funding. I'm saying to you hate Trump, but don't make everything about your hate for Trump. You also seem to equating delaying some minor amounts of aid for a very short time in peace time with greater issues at hand today.

bver_hunter has written entire dissertations on the Trump-Putin alliances built on the Trump's ending the war in 24 hours statement. Yes it's interesting, but I still think there is a lot of conjecture. (Funny thing, he wrote a Trump-Putin-Ukraine War dissertation last year, then denied it this year thinking I forgot who wrote it, then proceeded to give his entire dissertation again after being found out. Be that as it may.)

It would probably be best if the Biden Administration helped work out a negotiated settlement between Russia and the Ukraine before Jan. 2025. God help the U.S. politically if Trump is in office and a settlement doesn't get the Ukraine get back every piece of pre-2014 territory and a totally compliant Russia. Americans that think like you and liberal media will be bitching and moaning about conspiracy and what was given away for four droning years.

I enjoy cable news narratives as much as anyone, but realize there is usually a key fact or two that quickly punctures a hole in the argument. Believe it or not, I frequently do that to my conservative friends who tend to believe everything they hear. A good, satiating political narrative is a bit of opinion built on a lot of facts.

 

[WyattEarp]

You are confusing the way the American constitution intended democracy to work and how it does in fact. If the now former only twice impeached and twice indicted sexual abuser is elected aid to Ukraine will very quickly end and he will claim he ended the war which will have been the case. the checks and balance you refer to only work if the branches of government are independent of one another. As long as his employees control one or both of the houses there are no checks and balances.

I'm sorry I have no idea what you are saying. Did you rush this post out?