Its offical : Transphobia is here to stay!

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mandrill

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Okay, I didn't listen to that horseshit all the way through. But I grew up in the staid, sexually repressed 70's and I was a junior history mega nerd who was obsessed with Ancient Greece. And yeah - even the popular history works and fiction on the topic that 11 year old me could get hold of in the 70's said that Greek guys ass-fucked each other all the time. It's a given. And that was before Gay Lib had time to be born, let alone "coopt and re write history".

(Leaving aside that all those Mary Renault and Frank Yerby sword and sandal novels would be banned in Red State America now. I mean, look what they did to 100% hetero me..... Exactly nothing.)

And no, Patroclus and Achilles were not explicitly lovers in the Iliad. Achilles fucked slave girls all the time. So they were either bi or they had an emotionally close, non sexual bromance. Glad to help. I'm sure you study ancient history all the time.
 
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mandrill

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Matt was pretty unchained when he talked about impregnating 16 year girls IIRC.

Teenage pregnancy

In 2022, left-leaning media watchdog group Media Matters for America uncovered audio recordings from the 2010s that contained Walsh discussing teenage pregnancy on the radio show The Matt and Crank Program, saying that "the problem is not, per se, teenage pregnancy—it's unwed pregnancy", that "Girls between the ages of like 17 and 24 is when they're technically most fertile", and that society had only recently deemed being a teenager "too young to start a family".[45] After receiving criticism for these comments, Walsh defended his monologue, arguing that he was trying to communicate an uncontroversial historical observation, that because "people married young and stayed married" teenage pregnancy wasn't considered an issue. He further argued that pregnancy out of wedlock is the core issue since it leaves the child "without a stable family structure in place to care for [them]."[46] Walsh then declined to apologize, saying that "no-one gets canceled unless they consent to it, and they willingly play their assigned roles. Well, I do not consent, and I'm not going to play the game".[47] LGBTQ Nation accused Walsh of hypocrisy for defending teenage pregnancies while opposing transgender teenagers.[45]

LGBT issues

Walsh is an outspoken opponent of the LGBT rights movement and the LGBT community, in particular the transgender rights movement and the idea of being trans in general.[8][48]

In June 2015, Walsh condemned the U.S. Supreme Court case Obergefell v. Hodges, which ruled that the U.S. Constitution guaranteed the right to marriage for same-sex couples, arguing that "a union between two homosexuals is not, never has been, and never will be a legitimate marriage", while insinuating that the ruling will set marriage to become "an institution populated by all forms of depravity and corruption".[49][50]

In February 2021, after a Gallup poll showed a sharp increase of people who identify as LGBT, especially bisexual and transgender, in Generation Z compared to previous generations, Walsh accused "the media, Hollywood, and the school system" of recruiting children into the LGBT community. Other commentators quoted by PinkNews argued that Walsh was wrong, attributing the increase to different factors, including an easing of social stigmas among younger people.[51]

Shortly after the Russian invasion of Ukraine began on February 24, 2022, Walsh accused President Joe Biden of feminizing the U.S. military and recruiting lesbians who he said "can't do three pushups", and said that it was "not a coincidence that [Russia's invasion] happened after Biden spent his first year in office focusing primarily on wokeness".[52]

The New York Times columnist Michelle Goldberg wrote that Walsh's commentary, as well as that of other right-wing commentators, have caused an increase of anti-LGBT violence and sentiment in the United States.[53] The Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) described Walsh as one of the "peddlers of fear and disinformation about LGBTQ people" in the wake of the Club Q mass shooting in November 2022.[54] Walsh had previously said opposing all-age drag events was like fighting cancer,[30] and "just like cancer, stopping it is not a gentle or a painless process".[53][55] Following the shooting, Walsh lambasted critics of his rhetoric as "soulless demons" and "evil to the core", accusing them of using the shooting to "blackmail us into accepting the castration and sexualization of children".[56][57] He also rhetorically asked those on the left who felt that "the drag queen-child combination" would lead to "violent backlash" from right-wingers, "if it's causing this much chaos and violence, why do you insist on continuing to do it?"[58][59] Jeet Heer from The Nation described Walsh's comments, along with those of a few other right-wing figures, as "implicitly a threat. The right is trying to create a new lynching culture, with LGBTQ people as the target."[59]

In April 2023, Walsh deemed opposition to proposed legislation against homosexuality in Uganda a form of “neo-colonialism” claiming that opponents of the bill “don’t think that Uganda has any particular right to govern itself and have its own culture and its own way of life.” .[60] Under this legislation, “aggravated homosexuality” would be punishable by death.

 

mandrill

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mandrill

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Clearly they doesn't know the definition of regret because it sure looks like it.
So if I have surgery to correct a slipped spinal disc and infection sets in and I end up paralyzed from the waist down, it's a joke?
 

mandrill

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I love you guys. There are no original ideas with your lot. Everything comes in carefully choreographed waves of nonsense. So as I skimmed Twitter, there are suddenly now many, many posts denying that Ancient Greeks ass-fucked each other. And as of yesterday, there were none and never had been.

So this is troll-farmed.

Nevertheless, the intelligent, educated folk are already fighting back and repelling the brain-turders. See below:

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/52ddj0

You were not misinformed. Indeed, these very passages actually demonstrate that pederasty was widely practiced in Sparta. Elsewhere, Plutarch openly states that when Spartan boys reached puberty, they became available to older male lovers (Life of Lykourgos 17.1). There are several examples of famous historical characters who were once either lover or beloved in pederastic relationships (such as the fourth century BC king Agesilaos). Modern scholars do not doubt that man-boy love was very common in Classical Sparta. It has even been suggested that the only way to become a member of one of Sparta's tent groups upon reaching adulthood was to be the beloved of one of that tent group's existing members, making pederasty a fundamental element of Spartan social organisation.
However, the two authors you've cited (and it appears Plutarch is building on Xenophon, so that there is really only one source) are trying to paint an idealised picture of Sparta, in which every element of their way of life serves to create better citizens. They therefore chose to portray pederasty as a wholesome element in a boy's education, while of course denying that any part of it is governed by the rampant homosexual desires of adults.
It is worth noting that pederasty was primarily practiced among the leisured elite (which in Sparta meant all full citizens) and that there was a definite political element involved: being desired by a powerful lover helped a beloved's family along, while acquiring a beloved from an influential family could improve the status of the lover. This political dimension likely resulted in a choice of boy lovers that might not be easily explained through physical attraction alone. Yet it would of course not be good form to claim openly that the whole thing was just a power play. Much better to pretend that the boy's 'soul', his good character and impressive qualities, were what drove the older lover to take the beloved under his wing. This complimentous approach was a socially acceptable way to mask both homosexual desire and political machinations.
In addition, Xenophon seems to have been generally reluctant to accept the physical dimensions of pederastic relationships, which fits into a discomfort with raw instincts like lust among wealthy and educated men throughout Classical Greece. They liked to portray themselves as sensible and moderate; falling madly in love with boys was not easily justified, even though it was clearly common enough, and entirely socially acceptable. Whatever they may have said, though, we would be very naive to think that all these pederastic relationships were indeed entirely pure and platonic.
As for sexual relationships among "soldiers", there were no soldiers at Sparta, which had no professional army. Adult males were not supposed to engage in homosexual relationships - the institution of pederasty only sanctioned unequal man-boy ties - but it seems, again, naive to assume it didn't happen. If nothing else, it would have been common for man-boy relationships to continue once the boy had reached adulthood, since the lover was usually only a decade or so older than his beloved, and they would often have ended up being part of the same tent group, eating and sleeping together every day for the majority of their adult lives.
Much of this post is based on K. Dover's 'Greek Homosexuality and Initiation', in his The Greeks and their Legacy (1988), and its discussion in S. Hodkinson's 'The Development of Spartan Society and Institutions in the Archaic Period', in Mitchell and Rhodes' The Development of the Polis in Archaic Greece (1997). The main handbook on this subject is still K. Dover's Greek Homosexuality, newly reprinted with discussion of more recent scholarship by Bloomsbury (2016).
 
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basketcase

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If we're on the Titanic and it starts sinking, and it's "women and children" off first, all those trans women are staying on board with the rest of us MEN, until all the women are safely off the ship.
Your titanic fantasy is just as real as all your other trans-panic.
 

mandrill

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If we're on the Titanic and it starts sinking, and it's "women and children" off first, all those trans women are staying on board with the rest of us MEN, until all the women are safely off the ship.
If nuclear war killed all the other men on the planet and the zombie aliens attacked, you would bravely grab a rifle and save all the hot women and be a hero....... and that's a fantasy as well. 🐸 😹 😺 :oops:
 
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