Million Immigrants in 2022 - Thanks Fidel

[krealtarron]

it was meant to be sarcastic
you need to go and buy a clue or two




i do not hate Justin Trudeau
I do not wish any harm to him

He was , is and will always be unqualified for the office of the Prime Minister
and he is making a god awful mess

Justin Trudeau needs an occupation more aligned with his skill set

Attention Justin Trudeau " Clean up on Ailse 5 needed"

my only concern is somehow he would still manage to cause a scandal in that position

i knew he was a stupid fool in 2015
imagine my disappointment to learn he is also corrupt

Okay lets do it this way. And this is my last try in keeping you honest. Lets hope.

Take the points system from Stephen Harper days, say 2015. And take the points system today in 2023.

Select the criteria which you think are important for immigration - English speaking criteria, Education, Work experience you name it. And tell me which criteria had what points in 2015, and what it was reduced to in 2022 that you think that the current points system is watered down.

I dont care for what the PM did or what the immigration minister said or whatever. I dont care for charts that show an increase in immigrants, that is common knowledge.

I am challenging you that the current criteria are not watered down and ensure the best immigrants come. You clearly dont think so. So prove it.

Be specific and tell me something like:

"English ability used to be 50 points per candidate for a CLB level 7 score. Now they are awarding 100 points for a CLB 4 score, which is a reduction in standards".

When you do that its easy to prove that the point system is watered down.

Additionally, also pick on criteria that previously did not exist, that currently do and how many maximum points they give for each of these criteria that you think should not be the case.

look at the evidence

This is not evidence. This only proves what we already know that the number of immigrants have increased. I asked you more specifically above. Answer it.

 

[JohnLarue]

Okay lets do it this way. And this is my last try in keeping you honest. Lets hope.

Take the points system from Stephen Harper days, say 2015. And take the points system today in 2023.

do you have access to a government program calculator from 2015 which has since been over written by Adman Hussein?
No you do not
So why would you expect I would ?
what a ridiculous request
I do know when the changes were proposed the criteria was watered down

Select the criteria which you think are important for immigration - English speaking criteria, Education, Work experience you name it. And tell me which criteria had what points in 2015, and what it was reduced to in 2022 that you think that the current points system is watered down.

what a ridiculous request
how about..... you first
let me know what your 2015 score is and all the information you entered

you are either too stunned to believe or completely disingenuous to demand an output from a govt calculator which is no longer available

I dont care for what the PM did or what the immigration minister said or whatever. I dont care for charts that show an increase in immigrants, that is common knowledge.

you do not care to listen to what you do not like

I am challenging you that the current criteria are not watered down and ensure the best immigrants come. You clearly dont think so. So prove it.

Be specific and tell me something like:

"English ability used to be 50 points per candidate for a CLB level 7 score. Now they are awarding 100 points for a CLB 4 score, which is a reduction in standards".

When you do that its easy to prove that the point system is watered down.

Additionally, also pick on criteria that previously did not exist, that currently do and how many maximum points they give for each of these criteria that you think should not be the case.

again, you go first entering data into a 2015 govt calculator which has been overwritten
what a clown

the actual real life results speak loud and clear

This is not evidence.

yes it is
since when are factual records not evidence ?

This only proves what we already know that the number of immigrants have increased. I asked you more specifically above. Answer it.

'the number of immigrants have increased'
yet you claim Adman Hussein made the entrance criteria more difficult (despite his ideological goals dictating the opposite )

look Einstein the only way one can get an increased volume of that magnitude in a points based system is if the criteria to accumulate points has been watered down

you either have enough points to get in or you do not
again the number of applicants is irrelevant

you proved that when you calculated your score without knowing the # of applicants

Okay lets do it this way. And this is my last try in keeping you honest. Lets hope.

lose that arrogance, it is a bad combo with your ignorance

 

[krealtarron]

do you have access to a program from 2015 which was over written by Adman Hussein?
No you do not
So why would you expect I would ?
I do know when the changes were proposed the criteria was watered down



what a ridiculous request



you do not care to listen to what you do not like



the results speak loud and clear

yes it is
since when are factual records not evidence ?




look Einstein the only way one can get an increased volume of that magnitude in a points based system is if the criteria to accumulate points has been watered down

you either have enough points to get in or you do not
again the number of applicants is irrelevant

Okay so you dont know. Good. Your assertion that increased volume is possible only if criteria were watered down despite being proved to be not true, is ridiculous.

You dont actually know what the criteria were, and you do not actually know how many points were awarded to each of those criteria and you dont actually know if they were reduced and you dont actually know what additional criteria were added that you think makes immigration easier.

Basically you read some headline criticizing immigration and you are parroting it here and when asked for specifics, you are not able to engage or make an argument for yourself.

Oh and btw:

you either have enough points to get in or you do not
again the number of applicants is irrelevant

Yes, and you need MORE points today than you did in the post.

 

[JohnLarue]

Okay so you dont know. Good. Your assertion that increased volume is possible only if criteria were watered down despite being proved to be not true, is ridiculous.

You dont actually know what the criteria were, and you do not actually know how many points were awarded to each of those criteria and you dont actually know if they were reduced and you dont actually know what additional criteria were added that you think makes immigration easier.

Basically you read some headline criticizing immigration and you are parroting it here and when asked for specifics, you are not able to engage or make an argument for yourself.

Oh and btw:


Yes, and you need MORE points today than you did in the post.

(20) Michelle Rempel Garner on Twitter: "How many immigrants coming to Canada via the economic stream are expected to have jobs under Trudeau? Simple question, right? Wrong. Watch me grill the immigration minister. https://t.co/e5FmWQCT8H" / Twitter

the points available for having a job offer was reduced from 600 to 50
confirmed by adman Hussein

game, set and match

I know this will fall on deaf years and be useless as you will stick your head in the sand instead of saying "Yeah my bad I got that one wrong".

waiting for your

"Yeah my bad I got that one wrong".

 

[krealtarron]

(20) Michelle Rempel Garner on Twitter: "How many immigrants coming to Canada via the economic stream are expected to have jobs under Trudeau? Simple question, right? Wrong. Watch me grill the immigration minister. https://t.co/e5FmWQCT8H" / Twitter

the points available for having a job offer was reduced from 600 to 50
confirmed by adman Hussein
game, set and match
waiting for your

That wont make a difference. If you want to target people with jobs, then what difference does it make whether you add 600 points or 50 points while all other criteria remains unchanged? Say someone has 400 points. And they have a job offer, which means they now have 400+600 points = 1000. Today they will have 450 points.

But that does not impact the draw, because the draws are from the existing pool of applicant scores. So it does not matter if the majority of your existing pool of applicants had 1000 points or 450 points, the end result is that you are still targeting people with jobs.

Your claim would be relevant if all other factors were simultaneously changed favouring people without jobs, which is not the case. As I and another person who came here on express entry said in this very same thread. today if you dont have a job, you literally have no chance of immigrating, so your concern here is not valid.

And on another note: What are the primary immigrants characteristics you want? You want them to be young, educated, have some work experience, and have enough savings to support themselves for a few months before getting a job. So having a job offer should actually not be that important of a factor. Rather the ability to get one should be prioritized and we should also remove this "Canadian experience" requirement so they get jobs sooner.

 

[JohnLarue]

That wont make a difference. If you want to target people with jobs, then what difference does it make whether you add 600 points or 50 points while all other criteria remains unchanged? Say someone has 400 points. And they have a job offer, which means they now have 400+600 points = 1000. Today they will have 450 points.

But that does not impact the draw, because the draws are from the existing pool of applicant scores. So it does not matter if the majority of your existing pool of applicants had 1000 points or 450 points, the end result is that you are still targeting people with jobs.

Your claim would be relevant if all other factors were simultaneously changed favouring people without jobs, which is not the case. As I and another person who came here on express entry said in this very same thread. today if you dont have a job, you literally have no chance of immigrating, so your concern here is not valid.

And on another note: What are the primary immigrants characteristics you want? You want them to be young, educated, have some work experience, and have enough savings to support themselves for a few months before getting a job. So having a job offer should actually not be that important of a factor. Rather the ability to get one should be prioritized and we should also remove this "Canadian experience" requirement so they get jobs sooner.

holy shit

the points available for having a job offer was reduced from 600 to 50
confirmed by adman Hussein

the value of a job offer was reduced by 92% and you are still claiming the criteria were not watered down ????

that is the response of an ideologue who is refusing to objectively consider the facts of the matter

you are hopeless

do me a favor and do not ever quote me again

 

[krealtarron]

holy shit

the points available for having a job offer was reduced from 600 to 50
confirmed by adman Hussein

the value of a job offer was reduced by 92% and you are still claiming the criteria were not watered down ????

that is the response of an ideologue who is refusing to objectively consider the facts of the matter

you are hopeless

do me a favor and do not ever quote me again

I ask the 2 questions again:

1. Why does it make a difference? It does not. Here is why.

You have 10 different factors for example. Lets say the 9 of those add up to a score of 400. The job adds up to 600. For a total of 1000.
Now after the change, it adds up to 450. So everyone who had 1000 points yesterday will have 450 today.

What does that change exactly? Nothing.

So prove me wrong WHY it matters.

2. Why should an immigrant have a job already? The purpose of immigration is for people to come here and be successful. Unless people come here they wont get jobs. So what sense does it make to want them to have a job already? Answer this for me I am not understanding your motivations. Why cant they come here and then get a job?

 

[JohnLarue]

I ask the 2 questions again:

1. Why does it make a difference? It does not. Here is why.

You have 10 different factors for example. Lets say the 9 of those add up to a score of 400. The job adds up to 600. For a total of 1000.
Now after the change, it adds up to 450. So everyone who had 1000 points yesterday will have 450 today.

What does that change exactly? Nothing.

So prove me wrong WHY it matters.

2. Why should an immigrant have a job already? The purpose of immigration is for people to come here and be successful. Unless people come here they wont get jobs. So what sense does it make to want them to have a job already? Answer this for me I am not understanding your motivations. Why cant they come here and then get a job?

I asked you not to quote me again & less than a hour latter you quote me
What is wrong with you?

the points available for having a job offer was reduced from 600 to 50
confirmed by Adman Hussein

the value of a job offer was reduced by 92% and you are still claiming the criteria were not watered down ????

that is the response of an ideologue who is refusing to objectively consider the facts of the matter

 

[krealtarron]

the value of a job offer was reduced by 92% and you are still claiming the criteria were not watered down ????

that is the response of an ideologue who is refusing to objectively consider the facts of the matter

You asked not to be quoted because you dont have an argument. You know you are grasping at straws and talking bullshit. But let me persist.

The points were reduced 92%. But the weight of job offers was not reduced 92%, because all other factors remained the same. It does not matter whether a person with a job has 1000 points or 450 points. So say someone with 1000 points had the highest score. This person would now have 450, which means their status as the highest scorer wont change. So it is a non issue.

But the second more important question is, why should immigrants have a job at all before they come here? Making job offers the most important thing, pretty much means they cant get jobs before they come here and they cant come before they get jobs. Why cant they just come here and find a job?

You havent answered my 2 questions.

- What difference does a reduction in point make, if all other factors remain the same. The total subsequently reduces for everyone, so it makes no difference.
- Why should an immigrant have a job before they come here and why is it your most important criteria?

 

[dirtyharry555]

Canada's Rental Shortage Could Exceed 120K Units By 2026

Failing a significant boost in stock, Canada's rental housing shortage could quadruple as immigration grows and affordability dwindles.

storeys.com

 

[powerpak]

It probably makes sense to slow down immigration until our infrastructure can catch up.

 

[krealtarron]

It probably makes sense to slow down immigration until our infrastructure can catch up.

Infrastructure wil only be built with demand. So we need the immigration to generate that demand. People always forget that demand spurs production not the other way around.

 

[Rose11]

When can we have Cuban cigars at Timmys ? Legit Q.

 

[JohnLarue]

You asked not to be quoted because you dont have an argument. You know you are grasping at straws and talking bullshit. But let me persist.

The points were reduced 92%. But the weight of job offers was not reduced 92%, because all other factors remained the same. It does not matter whether a person with a job has 1000 points or 450 points. So say someone with 1000 points had the highest score. This person would now have 450, which means their status as the highest scorer wont change. So it is a non issue.

what is wrong with you ?
if you lower the high jump bar far more people are able to jump over the bar
Ask a child if you are still confused


of coarse it is an issue
the points available for having a job offer was reduced from 600 to 50
reducing the value of a job offer by 92% waters down the selection criteria

a child could tell you that reducing the most difficult criteria by 92% waters down the selection criteria

it is like trying to select a hockey team, but reducing the importance of 'skating'
he can shot, fight, hit, pass and is a hard worker and a great team player
on the downside his skating is 8% of what we expect

the proper response : go take power skating and apply again next year

ie go secure yourself a job offer and apply again next year


it was intentionally watered down and it shows up in the results

you seem so confused when confronted by

1. policy intentionally designed to greatly increase immigrant by lowering the requirements and
2. the results which display that policy working

But the second more important question is, why should immigrants have a job at all before they come here? Making job offers the most important thing, pretty much means they cant get jobs before they come here and they cant come before they get jobs. Why cant they just come here and find a job?

You havent answered my 2 questions.

questions you should have been able to answer for yourself if you viewed the issue objectively and could process logic

{QUOTE]What difference does a reduction in point make, if all other factors remain the same. The total subsequently reduces for everyone, so it makes no difference

.

of coarse it makes a difference
it increases the value of the noneconomic factors while reduction the most important economic factor- employment
And that is bad policy

- Why should an immigrant have a job before they come here and why is it your most important criteria?

again what is wrong with you ?

the justification for any immigration is our aging workforce and an inadequate supply of skilled trade workers
obviously if an applicant has secured a job offer they have the skills that an employer demands & a open position that has not been fulfilled by the domestic population
having a job offer in place means that applicant is directly fulfilling the economic needs of the country.

 

[krealtarron]

of coarse it makes a difference
it increases the value of the noneconomic factors while reduction the most important economic factor- employment
And that is bad policy

1. The most important factors are not job offers. The most important factors are - age, language ability, education and work experience.
2. It would reduce the value of the economic factor IF the points for non-economic factors were correspondingly increased and not just increased but increased to be a bigger factor than jobs itself. That did not happen. So you are wrong on that one.

the justification for any immigration is our aging workforce and an inadequate supply of skilled trade workers
obviously if an applicant has secured a job offer they have the skills that an employer demands & a open position that has not been fulfilled by the domestic population
having a job offer in place means that applicant is directly fulfilling the economic needs of the country.

Sure. So why can't they come here and secure that job? The ABILITY to secure a job is more important than having secured a job already, which in most cases is not practical because without the candidate being in Canada a Canadian company wont give them jobs and without jobs they wont be able to come (if it were up to you). That defeats the purpose of immigration targets that we desperately need.

So going back to your original assertion that it is EASIER to immigrate today than it was earlier - that is not true. It is not true for the following reasons:

1. Increased competition in the form of increased number of applications. So chances of getting selected are diminished and admittance rates are lower.
2. Securing jobs from outside Canada is not possible except for in very rare circumstances. So the majority of applicants getting selected are the ones with jobs anyway (and who are already present in Canada). So regardless of your issue with points being reduced for jobs, it is the ones with jobs that stand a chance of getting selected anyway.

1 + 2 = TOUGHER IMMIGRATION overall.

 

[JohnLarue]

Infrastructure wil only be built with demand. So we need the immigration to generate that demand. People always forget that demand spurs production not the other way around.

higher immigration not going to fixed the housing shortage, higher immigration will just ensure demand continues to exceed supply.

we have had infrastructure issues for decades
odd how the millions of new immigrants over that time frame did not create the incremental demand to.... 'spur production '
but wait, they did increase the incremental demand and yet the infrastructure was not built.

you do not understand that the pace of infrastructure projects are now driven by

1. the pace of ever increasing regulatory assessment
2. ever increasing interference by special interest groups - not in my neighborhood, environmentalist
3. funding constraints and often conflicting political objectives from three separate debt laden levels of government

municipal, provincial and federal govts have all accumulated massive debt load, and so has the over-taxed consumer
just when interest rates have started to increase
there is nobody to pay for the infrastructure

btw a massive debt burden is also in the cards for most the 492,000 new immigrants , the ones without a job offer


your premise that higher immigration will somehow fix our infrastructure issues is Pollyanna thinking and just plain wrong when one thinks clearly about the root causes of the infrastructure issues

 

[krealtarron]

higher immigration not going to fixed the housing shortage, higher immigration will just ensure demand continues to exceed supply.

we have had infrastructure issues for decades
odd how the millions of new immigrants over that time frame did not create the incremental demand to.... 'spur production '
but wait, they did the incremental demand and yet the infrastructure was not built.

you do not understand that the pace infrastructure projects are now driven by

1. the pace of ever increasing regulatory assessment
2. ever increasing interference by special interest groups - not in my neighborhood, environmentalist
3. funding constraints and often conflicting political objectives from three separate debt laden levels of government

municipal, provincial and federal govts have all accumulated massive debt load, and so has the over-taxed consumer
just when interest rates have started to increase
there is nobody to pay for the infrastructure

btw a massive debt burden is also in the cards for most the 492,000 new immigrants , the ones without a job offer


your premise that higher immigration will somehow fix our infrastructure issues is Pollyanna thinking and just plain wrong when one thinks clearly about the root causes of the infrastructure issues

That is a strawman argument. I did not say higher immigration WILL FIX our infrastructure issues. I said immigration drives demand, which corresponding drives supply which is a good thing.

I do agree that the pace of infrastructure development is slow, and that needs to be fixed. So fix that instead of saying we should slow down immigration as if 490K immigrants are the problem. It does not matter if immigrants who come here do not have a job. They need to show financial proof when applying so they need to come here with some money in their account. A single person I think needs $13,310 minimum and almost everyone comes here with 3 or 4 times that in their accounts. Its not one of those immigrant stories where people say "I came here with $10 in my pocket".

If at the end of the day you need someone to pay for infrastructure then it has to be through taxes. Taxes that immigrants will automatically pay when they come here even if they dont have jobs (sales tax etc).,

 

[NotADcotor]

Infrastructure wil only be built with demand. So we need the immigration to generate that demand. People always forget that demand spurs production not the other way around.

Lemmy H Kilmister, that has to be one of the most reality denying things I've read.
Like there isn't crushing demand right now for infrastructure, in the medical system and for housing.
Supply and demand doesn't work when it's the government [in the cases of roads and rail etc] nor does it work when the government has a big impact via funding and regulation.

 

[krealtarron]

Lemmy H Kilmister, that has to be one of the most reality denying things I've read.
Like there isn't crushing demand right now for infrastructure, in the medical system and for housing.
Supply and demand doesn't work when it's the government [in the cases of roads and rail etc] nor does it work when the government has a big impact via funding and regulation.

There is definitely a demand for housing, doctors and hospitals. Am sure you are aware of wait times for specialists and housing prices especially in the GTA.

 

[JohnLarue]

1. The most important factors are not job offers. The most important factors are - age, language ability, education and work experience.

Hmm all requirements before a job offer is even considered by an employer - go figure
you need to drill down deeper

2. It would reduce the value of the economic factor IF the points for non-economic factors were correspondingly increased and not just increased but increased to be a bigger factor than jobs itself. That did not happen. So you are wrong on that one.

you are having trouble with math
reducing the value of the economic factor by 92% automatically increases the relative value of the other factors.
it is a pie graph which always adds up to 100%
reduce the size of a slide by 92% and all the other slices get bigger

the only way you get your elusive equality is if the other non-economics factors are also reduced equally by 92%
that would be redundant as all that would be accomplished is the equal rescaling of the points .. number noodling , a pointless exercise

reducing any value by 92% is a step shy of just plain eliminating it
by definition the relative value of the non-economic factors have to have a larger contribution to the final score
it is bad economic policy

Sure. So why can't they come here and secure that job? The ABILITY to secure a job is more important than having secured a job already, which in most cases is not practical because without the candidate being in Canada a Canadian company wont give them jobs and without jobs they wont be able to come (if it were up to you). That defeats the purpose of immigration targets that we desperately need.

again you confuse yourself
we want immigrants with skill sets to fill in demand positions
if they have those skill sets the job offers are there

if they don't have those skill sets... they will not fill those positions

So going back to your original assertion that it is EASIER to immigrate today than it was earlier - that is not true. It is not true for the following reasons:

1. Increased competition in the form of increased number of applications. So chances of getting selected are diminished and admittance rates are lower.

it is a points based system, the volume of applicants is irrelevant to the applicants point total
you already proved this by declaring your points would be insufficient, without knowing how many applicants there were
were you lying then or lying now?

2. Securing jobs from outside Canada is not possible except for in very rare circumstances. So the majority of applicants getting selected are the ones with jobs anyway (and who are already present in Canada). So regardless of your issue with points being reduced for jobs, it is the ones with jobs that stand a chance of getting selected anyway.

it worked reasonable well 280k +/- per year before Admen Hussein messed with it.
Lots of immigrant professionals & skill trades who managed just fine under the previous points system
+
if you have marketable skills you can get job offers from all over the world

1 + 2 = TOUGHER IMMIGRATION overall.

ah so there you have it
your ideological devotion has led you to think that immigration was too tough, too restrictive and somehow inequitable >>>>>> therefore it must be fixed

So Adman Hussein fixed it for you... by.... (wait for it) ..........watering down the point system