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Anti-NATO protests in Europe

squeezer

Well-known member
Jan 8, 2010
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Were
fighting the Russian invasion a just cause to me like
it is to other posters I too would rather help the Ukrainians
in ways other than taking up arms to join the battle.
So please tell us how would you help Ukrainians. You would sit down with Zelensky and help devise a plan of surrender.


Doesn't change my position of he shouldn't have said this.

Russia would never attack the three baltic states under NATO protection.

Zelensky knows this but is trying to instill fear in the American public to gain support for this proxy war which the Biden government is bullish on.

Since you obviously support the war effort I encourage you make the ultimate sacrifice. Ukraine is accepting volunteers....
Russia realizes now the West is united to aid Ukraine in kicking their ass back home, so no, they are not invading any other country soon. Calling this a proxie war is nonsense and bullshit. You along with Kreal have bought into the Putin propaganda hook line and sinker. Although you have also been influenced by the Maga folks like Marjorie and Fucker the Tucker, Kreal just taps straight into Putins hotline.
 
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oil&gas

Well-known member
Apr 16, 2002
12,438
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Ghawar
So please tell us how would you help Ukrainians. You would sit down with Zelensky and help devise a plan of surrender.
I would be helping Ukrainians like the pro-NATO and anti-Putin
posters here by attacking Addict2sex. I might even change my
mind and cheer on Trudeau's military and weapon aids to Trudeau
but only up to certain point.
 

squeezer

Well-known member
Jan 8, 2010
18,319
12,651
113
I would be helping Ukrainians like the pro-NATO and anti-Putin
posters here by attacking Addict2sex. I might even change my
mind and cheer on Trudeau's military and weapon aids to Trudeau
but only up to certain point.
Ah, I see, you throw out nonsense without having an answer so you follow up with more nonsense. That's ok, at least we know where you stand.
 
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oil&gas

Well-known member
Apr 16, 2002
12,438
1,694
113
Ghawar
Russia realizes now the West is united to aid Ukraine in kicking their ass back home, so no, they are not invading any other country soon. ...........................
Russia also realizes China, India, Iran and dozens of other countries
outside the west are as much a part of the world, so they will press on
to get the job done.
 

oil&gas

Well-known member
Apr 16, 2002
12,438
1,694
113
Ghawar
Ah, I see, you throw out nonsense without having an answer so you follow up with more nonsense. That's ok, at least we know where you stand.
Hey, I would be helping Ukraine as much as you and other NATO supporters
here. So what could I do to be as helpful as you to Ukraine?!
 

squeezer

Well-known member
Jan 8, 2010
18,319
12,651
113
Russia also realizes that China, India, Iran and dozens of other countries
outside the west are as much a part of the world as the west. So they will
press on to get the job done.
Yes, to a certain extent, you are correct but India does not agree with the invasion and has sent Ukraine aid and wants to remain neutral, which in my opinion as a sovereign country is their right. China sees itself as being a peacemaker in the conflict. China does not want a powerful Russia, it is not in their interest. I'd like to see Nato being more diplomatic with China to help reign in Putin. As for Iran, they want a powerful friend who can eventually supply them with powerful weapons. It is in their best interest to align with Russia, for now.
 

squeezer

Well-known member
Jan 8, 2010
18,319
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Hey, I would be helping Ukraine as much as you and other NATO supporters
here. So what could I do to be as helpful as you to Ukraine?!
You are the one that made the claim you would like to help Ukraine in other ways than supplying military equipment. I am asking you if you were in charge of Nato, what would that be, a well-written document of a plan of surrender?
 

SchlongConery

License to Shill
Jan 28, 2013
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Russia also realizes China, India, Iran and dozens of other countries
outside the west are as much a part of the world, so they will press on
to get the job done.
Get the job done?

That's how you describe a brutal invasion of a sovereign nation with the stated intention of wiping out the country, its culture and the genocide of humans?

I have noticed you really are only about "oil and gas" and your world view is through that lens. I have never noticed any authentic empathy nor concern for your fellow humans and humanity in general.

As I gain wisdom I realize that life is about people, not things. I hope you discover this sooner rather than later.
 
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oil&gas

Well-known member
Apr 16, 2002
12,438
1,694
113
Ghawar
The U.S.
You are the one that made the claim you would like to help Ukraine in other ways than supplying military equipment. I am asking you if you were in charge of Nato, what would that be, a well-written document of a plan of surrender?
I said I would help if fighting Russia invasion was a noble cause
to me like it is to other posters (like you).
 

oil&gas

Well-known member
Apr 16, 2002
12,438
1,694
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Ghawar
Get the job done?
'Get the job done' in the same sense as George Bush also got the
job done with Iraq.

That's how you describe a brutal invasion of a sovereign nation with the stated intention of wiping out the country, its culture and the genocide of humans?

I have noticed you really are only about "oil and gas" and your world view is through that lens. I have never noticed any authentic empathy nor concern for your fellow humans and humanity in general.

As I gain wisdom I realize that life is about people, not things. I hope you discover this sooner rather than later.
 

squeezer

Well-known member
Jan 8, 2010
18,319
12,651
113
The U.S.


I said I would help if fighting Russia invasion was a noble cause like it
was to other posters (like you).
I see but this is what you posted

"Were
fighting the Russian invasion a just cause to me like
it is to other posters I too would rather help the Ukrainians
in ways other than taking up arms to join the battle. "


In other words, you posted if this were a just cause, you would help the Ukrainians in ways other than sending bombs, guns and defensive weapons.

So from what you are saying now, because it is not A JUST CAUSE FUCK the Ukraines, let them deal with Putin on their own and let the bodies hit the ground at Putin's will, right? I mean, of course Putin has the right to massacre innocent people, right? Afterall you can only get so much enjoyment out of throwing folks out of a window, or poisioning a few fuckers, that wears thin after a while.

Yup, sleepy Joe and the rest of Nato are completely out to lunch on this one. They need to consult with a few folks here so we can get this resolved.

I'm just curious, if it were a just cause, what would you do to help Ukrain out besides weapons and humanitarian aid?
 

SchlongConery

License to Shill
Jan 28, 2013
11,715
4,987
113
'Get the job done' in the same sense as George Bush also got the
job done with Iraq.
Oh yeah, thanks for the reminder to get my Time Machine fixed.

Any recommendations? Who services yours?

But at least we agree on the tragedy of the United States et al invading a sovereign country on false pretences and proceeding to kill hundreds of thousands of their people hunting for their demonstrably brutal unhinged President Saddam Hussein..

So back to the present day of Russia invading a sovereign country on false pretences and proceeding to carry out their stated purpose of wiping out their Nation, culture and people being led by a comedian.

Is that the "job" you want Putin get done? The job western support and defensive weapons are getting in the way of?
 

oil&gas

Well-known member
Apr 16, 2002
12,438
1,694
113
Ghawar
I see but this is what you posted

"Were
fighting the Russian invasion a just cause to me like
it is to other posters I too would rather help the Ukrainians
in ways other than taking up arms to join the battle. "


In other words, you posted if this were a just cause, you would help the Ukrainians in ways other than sending bombs, guns and defensive weapons.

So from what you are saying now, because it is not A JUST CAUSE FUCK the Ukraines, let them deal with Putin on their own and let the bodies hit the ground at
You read too much into what I wrote.

Fighting invaders is always a just cause to the invaded. That has
been the way it is for every people in the history of civilization.

Putin's will, right? I mean, of course Putin has the right to massacre innocent people, right? Afterall you can only get so much enjoyment out of throwing folks out of a window, or poisioning a few fuckers, that wears thin after a while.

Yup, sleepy Joe and the rest of Nato are completely out to lunch on this one. They need to consult with a few folks here so we can get this resolved.

I'm just curious, if it were a just cause, what would you do to help Ukrain out besides weapons and humanitarian aid?
 

squeezer

Well-known member
Jan 8, 2010
18,319
12,651
113
You read too much into what I wrote.

Fighting invaders is always a just cause to the invaded. That has
been the way it is for every people in the history of civilization.
What do you have to say to these Russian comrades you seem to want to defend?

 

oil&gas

Well-known member
Apr 16, 2002
12,438
1,694
113
Ghawar
What do you have to say to these Russian comrades you seem to want to defend?
If I were a Ukrainian local I would tell invading Russian soldiers
to fxxk off or I would blow their heads off. As a non-Ukrainian I
am more selective with whom I want to fight or defend.
 

oil&gas

Well-known member
Apr 16, 2002
12,438
1,694
113
Ghawar
Volodymyr Zelensky: Not Exactly A Champion Of Democracy
<<<<<<<<<And not exactly worth dying to defend >>>>>>>

By Ted Galen Carpenter
February 6, 2023

American supporters of Washington’s Ukraine policy often portray Ukrainian leader Volodymyr Zelensky as a noble champion of democracy who deserves even more U.S. military assistance than he has already received. The political and media love-fest accompanying Zelensky’s address to a joint session of Congress in late December 2022 was a recent example of such hero worship.

Volodymyr Zelensky: A Misguided Love Affair?

Voice of America published an article comparing Zelensky’s appearance to Winston’s Churchill’s address to Congress in December 1941. David Frum, writing in the Atlantic, asserted that Zelensky recalled us to ourselves and our democratic values. Frum added that the Ukrainian president “came to the United States to thank us for supporting Ukraine. It is Americans who should thank him.” An earlier New York Times column by Bret Stephens contended that Americans “admire Zelensky because he has restored the idea of the free world to its proper place.”

Such fawning ignores the mounting evidence of Zelensky’s flagrant abridgment of civil liberties and democratic norms. The blind attitude of Americans is reminiscent of the sanitized treatment given to an earlier bogus champion of democracy, Angolan rebel leader Jonas Savimbi. Between the mid-1970s and the early 1990s (especially during Ronald Reagan’s administration), numerous political and media figures in the United States pushed for greater support for Savimbi’s National Union for the Total Independence of Angola (UNITA) and its insurgency against Angola’s leftist government. They also were willing to overlook their “democratic” client’s massive flaws.

The enthusiasm of American movement conservatives”for Savimbi was especially pronounced. Prominent supporters included such organizations as the Heritage Foundation, Freedom House, the American Conservative Union, the Young Americans for Freedom, and the American Security Council. Various publications, including Human Events, National Review, American Spectator, and the Wall Street Journal amplified the pro-Savimbi case. Savimbi’s backers arranged a major speaking tour for the Angolan leader in 1979 and facilitated his meetings in Washington with congressional leaders and administration officials in 1981, 1986, and 1989.

Their admiration for Savimbi remained intact, even though there were troubling indications early on of UNITA’s harsh, autocratic internal practices. Johns Hopkins University Professor Piero Gleijeses observes that despite such disagreeable details, Savimbi’s American allies “seized the high ground; they argued in terms of both U.S. interests and morality.” The ongoing campaign for enhanced U.S. support for Zelensky exhibits the same features.

Presenting Savimbi with an award from the American Conservative Union and the Young Americans for Freedom, U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations Jeane Kirkpatrick lauded him as “one of the few authentic heroes of our time.” Kirkpatrick’s idealized portrait of Savimbi was typical of the right-wing perspective in the United States. President Ronlad Reagan shared that view, at one point succinctly describing Savimbi in a diary entry as “a good man.”

Sen. Orrin Hatch at the time said that “I have had the privilege of meeting Mr. Savimbi and have been extremely impressed by his honesty, integrity, religious commitment.” The conflict in Angola was not a civil war, the Utah senator insisted. “It is a battle over ideologies: Soviet totalitarianism vs. freedom, self-determination, and democracy.” U.S. aid to Savimbi would “send a strong signal to the world that we are determined to help freedom fighters resist Communist hegemony.” If one substitutes “authoritarianism” for “Soviet totalitarianism,” and “Russian aggression” for “Communist hegemony,” today’s dominant and thoroughly simplistic message about needing to support Zelensky and his cause is virtually the same.

The enthusiasm for UNITA and its leader became increasingly strident and uncritical. In retrospect, one of the more embarrassing episodes in the campaign to lionize Savimbi was the appearance in 1986 in the Wall Street Journal of an op-ed under his byline, but with major portions apparently written by a ghost writer. It hailed the virtues of capitalism and democracy and pledged to make Angola a model of both values if the United States helped UNITA oust the pro-Communist government in Luanda. In a 1989 lecture to the Heritage Foundation, Savimbi was selling the same message.

Savimbi’s article and subsequent lecture told American proponents of democracy (especially conservatives) exactly what they wanted to hear. UNITA’s ultimate goal, he insisted, was not just to overthrow the pro-Communist regime and its Cuban military backers, but to build a new, democratic country. Nor was that all. “In addition to UNITA’s commitment to a democratic, multiparty Angola with religious tolerance and freedom of speech, it is vital that we recognize the importance of economic liberties,” Savimbi insisted. National Review gushed about his “astonishing defense of freedom.”

What is so striking about the success of the pro-Savimbi camp’s propaganda was that UNITA did not practice any of those political or economic principles in the portion of Angola that it controlled. There was certainly no evidence of democracy, multiparty or otherwise; UNITA maintained a ruthless monopoly of power. Abuses included war crimes against civilians and the systematic imprisoning or killing of political opponents or potential leadership competitors. The latter category eventually included some of his closest associates, such as Tito Chingunji and Wilson dos Santos. Even some of Savimbi’s American supporters grudgingly had to admit that UNITA resorted to torture and coercive “re-education” measures.

Zelensky Damages Ukraine’s Democracy:

Likewise, the Ukraine government’s repression is becoming increasingly flagrant and alarming. Since the Russian invasion, Zelensky has used the war as a justification for outlawing 11 opposition parties. He also invoked martial law to issue a presidential decree that combined all national television stations into one platform. On Dec. 29, 2022, Zelensky signed a new law that his party had pushed through parliament — a measure that further curbed an independent press. Other presidential actions sought to ban the Russian Orthodox Church and imposed severe sanctions on its top clerics. A growing number of people are being jailed without due process.

Zelensky and his closest colleagues have no tolerance for even the most peaceful opponents, domestic or foreign. In the summer of 2022, the Ukraine government’s Center for Countering Disinformation published a blacklist of critics that included numerous prominent Americans. The implicitly threatening nature of that list became even more evident in late September, when the CCD issued a revised roster (including addresses) of the top 35 targets and smeared those individuals as “disinformation terrorists” and “war criminals.”

One key difference between the misguided support for Savimbi and the equally misguided support for Zelensky is that the earlier episode was heavily partisan in nature. Conservatives were much more inclined to back the Angolan conman; liberals ranged from tepidly favorable to overtly hostile. Unfortunately, the portrayal of Zelensky as a champion of democracy and freedom is depressingly bipartisan. His American admirers simply refuse to acknowledge their client’s alarming ideological and behavioral warts. In retrospect, that allegiance may prove to be as embarrassing to Zelensky’s fans as it ultimately did to Savimbi’s advocates.

 

bver_hunter

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Nov 5, 2005
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MTG once again catches the bull by the tail:

Greene criticizes Zelensky at CPAC: ‘Leave your hands off of our sons and daughters’


These right wingers just try to distort the facts so as to show their hatred for Ukrainian leader Zelensky:

Fact check: Zelensky didn’t say American sons and daughters have to fight in Ukraine

 
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