Depression - Here we come - Thanks Trudumb

hamermill

Senior Member
Oct 2, 2001
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In a place far, far away
This is good news because when the banks foreclose there will be lots of homes that can be bought on the cheap!!!

Woohoo Trudumb we thank you - this is sarcasm.


Tens of thousands of Canadians could default on mortgages due to rising rates, bank CEOs say

The CEOs of Canada’s big banks said borrowers “vulnerable” to default are just a small percentage of customers, but other mortgage-holders will also have to adjust their spending.


According to the CEOs of the country’s largest banks, tens of thousands of Canadian borrowers could be vulnerable to defaulting on their mortgages as rates rise and homeowners struggle to make monthly payments.

Scotiabank’s incoming CEO said about 20,000 of the bank’s borrowers could be vulnerable, which represents about 2.5 per cent of the bank’s mortgage customers. The CEOs of several of Canada’s other big banks also said Monday that small percentages of their borrowers are at risk, potentially adding up to tens of thousands of Canadians.

On top of that, millions of the banks’ other borrowers are likely to face financial pain this year and next as they renegotiate fixed-rate mortgages or make ever-higher monthly payments on variable-rate loans.

Still, the bank CEOs, speaking at a daylong conference hosted by RBC, emphasized that they don’t expect a wave of mortgage defaults to seriously impact their own bottom lines.

“This is not a bank credit issue. This is an issue of consumer lifestyle,” said CIBC CEO Victor Dodig. “More money will have to go from discretionary spending to interest expense.”

The CEOs said that household savings built up during the pandemic, a strong labour market and an overall increase in home values in recent years should provide a cushion for most of their mortgage customers.

They said only a small percentage of borrowers — BMO’s Darryl White put it at 1 per cent for his bank while RBC’s Dave McKay pegged it as being in the “low single-digit percentage” range — are “vulnerable” to default.

Those customers tend to have low credit scores and own homes that are not worth much more than their mortgages.


Scott Thomson, who will take over the top job at Scotiabank on Feb. 1, said the bank’s estimated 20,000 vulnerable borrowers should be a “manageable-type situation for us.”

The number of Canadians who actually fall into arrears of three months or more on their mortgage payments is historically low — it hovered between around 0.25 and 0.5 per cent of mortgage holders for most of the past two decades, according to the Canadian Bankers Association. In any given month over that time period, a range of about 10,000 to 20,000 mortgages were in arrears.

When it comes to higher payments, Dodig gave a few examples, noting that fixed-rate mortgage holders renegotiating this year can expect to pay an average of about $350 more per month while variable-rate mortgage payments will go up by about $700 per month.

On the bright side, Dodig said, the mortgage stress test (introduced by the federal government in early 2018 to guard against a rapid rise in interest rates) means that most customers facing renewals had to prove they could carry loans with interest rates of between about 5.2 and 5.4 per cent.

That’s only slightly below the rate they’ll be looking at for a new five-year, fixed-interest rate mortgage (about 5.45 per cent) and not far off from what they might pay for a variable-rate mortgage (6.05 per cent). In short, it might hurt, but they’ve already proven they can probably afford it.


McKay said more than 50 per cent of RBC’s variable-rate mortgage holders will have a “trigger impact,” meaning their monthly payments no long cover anything but interest.

In those situations, borrowers have to make a change, likely increasing their payments, but McKay said the bank’s careful look at its own extensive customer data suggests “the cash flow is there to absorb it and the collateral is there to absorb it to a large degree.”

Resilience in Canada’s labour market — the country added 104,000 jobs in December, Statistics Canada said Friday — should also help, McKay said, noting there is still a “strong demand for jobs.”

“We still have significant demand in construction, retail, hospitality and health care,” he said. “So if you’re displaced in one sector there is a job in this economy for you and that’s different than other recessions that we’ve been through.”

The big bank CEOs generally said they expect a mild recession at worst but added that they’re prepared for a more significant downturn.


They all said they have been able to adapt to new requirements to keep more capital on hand announced in December by the federal banking regulator, the Office of the Superintendent of Financial Institutions.

Peter Routledge, who leads the regulator, said during a speech at the conference that OSFI increased the capital requirement because it would “rather err on the side of acting too early than be criticized for acting too late.”

He said OSFI is prepared to respond to changing market conditions quickly and also noted that it is launching a review this week of mortgage-underwriting rules that will consider whether measures that go beyond the stress test are needed.

Routledge said he wants to ensure Canada’s banks are prepared for worse-than-expected credit losses, but he generally sounded an optimistic note, pointing to the recent jobs report and noting, “We’re not in bad times notwithstanding what you may read every day in various journals and newspapers.”

Routledge said he was “staggered” by how low Canada’s mortgage delinquency rate is, pointing to CBA numbers from September that show just 0.14 per cent of Canadians were in arrears on their mortgage payments at the time.


“The notion that we’re dealing with a calamity the likes of which we saw in the United States and other countries in the 2007 to 2009 period is just not realistic from my standpoint.”
 

silentkisser

Master of Disaster
Jun 10, 2008
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It's amazing how people blame Trudeau for all that is wrong or going badly in Canada, but never credit him for anything that is going well.

For anyone who is familiar with monetary policy....or even basic economics....what is happening here is something that we've experienced before. Late 80s/early 90s interest rates shot up to something like 18%. People were over leveraged, many had mortgages underwater. It truly sucked for those folks. But, in today's situation....I'd like to understand why you think it's Trudeau's fault? We've had historically low interest rates since 2007/08. They've gone up a lot (relatively speaking) over the past year....but are nowhere near historic highs. It's unfortunate that a lot of people got into the home buying mania, and many bought homes that were beyond their means if rates changed. But...Did they think rates would stay this low forever???

And, while the right might want to blame Trudeau for the inflation we're experiencing, if you could read a newspaper once in a while, you would understand that this is a GLOBAL phenomenon. All industrial nations are facing it. It's a combination of corporate greed, supply line disruptions and government monetary policy. But, you cannot blame just one.
 

oil&gas

Well-known member
Apr 16, 2002
14,021
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Ghawar
Rising interest rate sucks but there is no alternative.
We must put a lid on escalating home prices.
 

Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
31,148
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So these home owners chose variable rates. Taking the risk. On top of that they are probably living paycheck to paycheck and didn't plan for any contingency in case of problems.

And therefore overbought. So they will have to sell, take the equity they have, and move on.
 

squeezer

Well-known member
Jan 8, 2010
21,838
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So these home owners chose variable rates. Taking the risk. On top of that they are probably living paycheck to paycheck and didn't plan for any contingency in case of problems.

And therefore overbought. So they will have to sell, take the equity they have, and move on.
Provided then didn't buy at the end of 2021 and start of 2022 and paid a price the property will not fetch today. In other words, they are screwed.
 

JohnLarue

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2005
18,089
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It's amazing how people blame Trudeau for all that is wrong or going badly in Canada, but never credit him for anything that is going well.
it's amazing how some people believe the moron Trudeau deserves any credit
everything this fool touches does one of three things
  1. becomes wildly expensive
  2. does not work
  3. turns into a corruption scandal
For anyone who is familiar with monetary policy....or even basic economics....
FYI
For anyone who is familiar with fiscal policy....or even basic economics. if you print money / borrow money like there is no limit, it becomes worth less ie inflation

It is mystifying why you think you can defend the moron lecturing about monetary policy.
He does not even think about it
My guess is he does not even remotely understand it


Trudeau says he doesn’t “think about monetary policy” when asked about the economy | True North (tnc.news)
 

krealtarron

Hardened Member
Nov 12, 2021
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it's amazing how some people believe the moron Trudeau deserves any credit
everything this fool touches does one of three things
  1. becomes wildly expensive
  2. does not work
  3. turns into a corruption scandal

FYI
For anyone who is familiar with fiscal policy....or even basic economics. if you print money / borrow money like there is no limit, it becomes worth less ie inflation

It is mystifying why you think you can defend the moron lecturing about monetary policy.
He does not even think about it
My guess is he does not even remotely understand it


Trudeau says he doesn’t “think about monetary policy” when asked about the economy | True North (tnc.news)
To be fair, no PM understands economics
 
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SchlongConery

License to Shill
Jan 28, 2013
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So these home owners chose variable rates. Taking the risk. On top of that they are probably living paycheck to paycheck and didn't plan for any contingency in case of problems.

And therefore overbought. So they will have to sell, take the equity they have, and move on.

A lot of homeowners got low interest Lines of Credit against their homes when the value skyrocketed. They spent this tax free money like they earned the extravagant consumerism lifestyle. When in fact they were living wildly beyond their means. A lot of them used their lines of credit to pay their mortgages.

Now they are going to have to renew their inflated mortgages at current rates. The combination of which is going to piss them off because they are likely still of an entitled mindset. Or that it is Trudeau's or Harper's, Mulroney's, Obama's, Trump's, Biden's, Harris, McGuinty's, Ford's or The Cabal's fault.

I find that losers ALWAYS blame people, politicians and institutions for their personal failures. Rather than having the intelligence and discipline to adapt to and thrive in the ever-changing game of life.
 

JohnLarue

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2005
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Rising interest rate sucks but there is no alternative.
We must put a lid on escalating home prices.
home prices are too high, however the purchase of a home is discretionary
the real problem is energy and food inflation.
People can not push those purchase out into the future & in the case of low income Canadians , they are getting forced to choose one vs. the other
 
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JohnLarue

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2005
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To be fair, no PM understands economics

to be fair

Stephen Harper - Wikipedia
Harper studied economics, earning a bachelor's degree in 1985 and a master's degree in 1991.
Canadians will pay a very big price from dumping a PM who understands economics (Steven Harper) for a fool who does not understand economic (Justin Trudeau)

Steven Harper was authoritarian and came across as cold
Every politician has a shelf life and PM Harper reached his.
I get it , sometimes change is good to keep the politicians honest

Had he been replaced by a Jean Chretien or a Paul Martin that would have been fine and again likely healthy to keep the political system balanced

However Justin Trudeau was never qualified for the position and he had caused a great deal of damage.
Justin Trudeau is likely the very worst thing to ever happen to Canada
 

krealtarron

Hardened Member
Nov 12, 2021
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to be fair

Stephen Harper - Wikipedia


Canadians will pay a very big price from dumping a PM who understands economics (Steven Harper) for a fool who does not understand economic (Justin Trudeau)

Steven Harper was authoritarian and came across as cold
Every politician has a shelf life and PM Harper reached his.
I get it , sometimes change is good to keep the politicians honest

Had he been replaced by a Jean Chretien or a Paul Martin that would have been fine and again likely healthy to keep the political system balanced

However Justin Trudeau was never qualified for the position and he had caused a great deal of damage.
Justin Trudeau is likely the very worst thing to ever happen to Canada
Just because someone studied something doesn't mean they know anything about it. I studied electrical engineering and then went on to a different line of work. All I can do is change a light bulb.

You need a politician in the role of PM. Not someone who understands "economics" (although that would be a plus) as if that was the only thing a PM is responsible for.

Trudeau has his weaknesses, but to say that he is the worst thing to happen to Canada etc, is hyperbolic nonsense.
 

Soccersweeper

Well-known member
Apr 24, 2018
1,291
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Toronto
Grow up. Even if there's a recession it will be over in no time. We have record employment right now. That must be Trudeau's "Fault" too right? Because he runs everything? Cons don't understand math or economics, that's why there always seems to be a recession on their watch.
 
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bver_hunter

Well-known member
Nov 5, 2005
29,925
7,900
113
It's amazing how people blame Trudeau for all that is wrong or going badly in Canada, but never credit him for anything that is going well.

For anyone who is familiar with monetary policy....or even basic economics....what is happening here is something that we've experienced before. Late 80s/early 90s interest rates shot up to something like 18%. People were over leveraged, many had mortgages underwater. It truly sucked for those folks. But, in today's situation....I'd like to understand why you think it's Trudeau's fault? We've had historically low interest rates since 2007/08. They've gone up a lot (relatively speaking) over the past year....but are nowhere near historic highs. It's unfortunate that a lot of people got into the home buying mania, and many bought homes that were beyond their means if rates changed. But...Did they think rates would stay this low forever???

And, while the right might want to blame Trudeau for the inflation we're experiencing, if you could read a newspaper once in a while, you would understand that this is a GLOBAL phenomenon. All industrial nations are facing it. It's a combination of corporate greed, supply line disruptions and government monetary policy. But, you cannot blame just one.
Spot on!! Canada's economy is far more positive than say the UK Conservative Government's disastrous Policy, first with Brexit and then the so called "fiscal responsibility". They have a 10 Downing Street with a Revolving Door of PMs. Look at their inflation rate that is far higher than that of Canada's. While this Housing Market has been hit in a very severe matter, yes, it is part of the Global Inflation. Another factor to examine is how the previous Harper Government deregulated the Housing Market that caused a bubble in the housing market. It benefited the Banks and Private Insurance Companies while in reality Canadians paid more for their mortgages especially if the interest rates were accrued over 25 years. Many of them got into the housing market although in reality it was out of reach for a substantial percentage, due to skyrocketing House prices:


But the credit one has to give to the present Government is the unprecedented jobs creation. The job expectancy in December 2022 by the pundits were just about 8000 jobs. However, the actual number is 104,000 jobs. At no time under Harper were that many jobs created in a single month. This is how poor the Harper Government did perform jobs wise for almost a decade that they were in charge:


That is why we should not rush to vote in a Harper clone like PP, as to him it is more important to walk arm in arm with extremist elements from the likes of the FreeDumb convoy.
A dude like him also bought multiple houses to rent them out. When caught out with it he stated that he was make those rental properties "affordable", when in reality the multiple home ownerships was one of the prime reasons for driving up House Prices!!
 
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JohnLarue

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2005
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Just because someone studied something doesn't mean they know anything about it. I studied electrical engineering and then went on to a different line of work. All I can do is change a light bulb.

You need a politician in the role of PM. Not someone who understands "economics" (although that would be a plus) as if that was the only thing a PM is responsible for.

Trudeau has his weaknesses, but to say that he is the worst thing to happen to Canada etc, is hyperbolic nonsense.
wrong
a masters degrees in economics certainly negates your off the cuff statement
To be fair, no PM understands economics
Steven Harper certainly understands economics better than the fool Justin Trudeau
He likely also understands economics far better than you

Trudeau has his weaknesses, but to say that he is the worst thing to happen to Canada etc, is hyperbolic nonsense.
he is a moron puppet drama student , playing a part he was never qualified for and time will prove he is the worst thing to happen to Canada
 
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Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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So these home owners chose variable rates. Taking the risk. On top of that they are probably living paycheck to paycheck and didn't plan for any contingency in case of problems.

And therefore overbought. So they will have to sell, take the equity they have, and move on.
Yes, because welfare is for corporations, not taxpayers.
Banks et al will get help.
 
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JohnLarue

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2005
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Grow up. Even if there's a recession it will be over in no time. We have record employment right now. That must be Trudeau's "Fault" too right? Because he runs everything? Cons don't understand math or economics, that's why there always seems to be are session on their watch.
learn something

Public sector jobs boom plays havoc with Canada's economic future | Financial Post

Private sector employment (including self-employment) in Canada increased between February 2020 and July 2022 by a negligible 56,100 jobs, essentially a flat increase of 0.4 per cent. By contrast, job creation in the public sector rose by 366,800 jobs, an increase of 9.4 per cent. The government sector was responsible for an astonishing 86.7 per cent of all Canadian job creation in that period.
The facts do not lie
the moron has inflated job creation with borrowed money

this is not sustainable & will be devastatingly expensive to correct

he did this not for the benefit of Canadians but for political advantage

he fooled you once again
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
94,451
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wrong
a masters degrees in economics certainly negates your off the cuff statement


Steven Harper certainly understands economics better than the fool Justin Trudeau
He likely also understands economics far better than you


he is a moron puppet drama student , playing a part he was never qualified for and time will prove he is the worst thing to happen to Canada
That's a lot of insults attacking the guy who has the best job growth record in ages.
 

JohnLarue

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2005
18,089
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it is truly amazing how some can not comprehend simple English

The government sector was responsible for an astonishing 86.7 per cent of all Canadian job creation in that period.
the moron has inflated job creation with borrowed money

this is not sustainable & will be devastatingly expensive to correct
 
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